Ladies on the forum, do you consider yourself to be a feminist?

[crossfire]

As long as no one has a problem with it, I'd like the OP of this new thread we're creating to come from the angle of defending the Christian God's judgement in choosing men to be the head of household. This thread should be about attempting to discern the wisdom behind that command.

I don't know if it was God's judgement, or Paul's judgement. I would suspect that it would be to protect against persecution of Christians, since we are talking about Hellenistic Greek society here, where women were regarded as second class citizens. Paul wrote about doing nothing to give reason for offense, and giving women equality would certainly qualify as offensive to Hellenistic Greek society. At least that is my take on it.

 

[dust1n]

Angle of defending the Christian God's judgement in choosing men to be the head of household?

"The Bible says it, so it must be."

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Angle of defending the Christian God's judgement in choosing men to be the head of household?

"The Bible says it, so it must be."

And to add:

"The Bible says it, so it must be, unless the man is a weak gutless coward who sees himself as a weak gutless coward and abdicates authority to the cupcake in the kitchen....and then everyone should feel ashamed that a woman had to lead." (Awwwwwww :sad: )

 

[dust1n]

And to add:

"The Bible says it, so it must be, unless the man is a weak gutless coward who sees himself as a weak gutless coward and abdicates authority to the cupcake in the kitchen....and then everyone should feel ashamed that a woman had to lead." (Awwwwwww :sad: )

It's, like, every time these feminism threads get started, the opposing view just gets weaker and weaker. :foot:

 

[MoonWater]

to answer the OP: I do consider myself a feminist simply because feminism is about equality between the sexes and I believe in equality between the sexes. Unfortunately feminism has gotten a bad rap in the US thanks to religious fantatics and right wing fundamentalists conflating us with man-haters and coining the term "femi-nazis" as well as the fact that a lot of people either think feminism is no longer necessary (which is bunk) or think that feminism is causing a backlash leading to discrimination against men, not realizing that the supposed discrimination in things like domestic abuse, rape, or child custody isn't caused by feminism but by patriarchy. Yet no matter how many times it's explained to these people they never seem to get it.

 

[Riverwolf]

Hmmmm....are there people who deny being a feminist, but actually are?

Oh, yes. Lots.

 

[Riverwolf]

Perhaps something based on real science might be in order here:

BBC - Science & Nature - What Sex Is Your Brain?

Men and women are actually very similar in the way they think. However, females show more aptitude at

• distinguishing between subtle hints and details
• having a good visual memory

Males tend to show more aptitude at:

• seeing things in 3 dimensions
• being able to imagine how things rotate

Feel free to try the test yourself to test its accuracy.

I've heard of that, admittedly from Mythbusters citing it during their "Battle of the Sexes" episode.

Still, that could be because of the way the two genders tend to be raised. Boys tend to be given blocks to play with more, for example.

 

[MoonWater]

Hmmmm....are there people who deny being a feminist, but actually are?

anyone who believes in equality between the sexes is a feminist by definition no matter how much they may seek to deny it.

 

[Alceste]

Hmmmm....are there people who deny being a feminist, but actually are?

Oh, yes. Lots.

I'd say most feminists deny being a feminist. They're always saying things like "I'm an egalitarian, not a feminist" and "I believe in reproductive freedom, equal pay for equal work, etc but feminism goes too far".

They subscribe to all the tenets of feminist philosophy, but are ignorant of it and afraid to be associated with it due to all the bad press put forward by others who are equally ignorant.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

anyone who believes in equality between the sexes is a feminist by definition no matter how much they may seek to deny it.

Sorry but this is simply not true

 

[Me Myself]

1.) No one disputes the claim. 2.) Feminism is against domestic violence against men. 3.)These numbers are only from the UK and definitely don't compare to the norm in the world.

Being a movement the only way it could be "against" is by actions.

What has the feminism m ovement done to cambat this then?

I've addressed this before. Your response to my thoughts were dismissive at best. But because it's President's Day (just being funny here):

One of the assumptions of patriarchy is that women are by nature helpless and weak, and that men are brute and strong. The assumptions consider that any abuse will overwhelmingly be disproportionate toward men abusing women, where statistics through the years say otherwise. Women are capable of abusing men (I've argued repeatedly here at RF that women can hurt men just as easily, and have been met with some resistance on that argument). At least I'm consistent.

We need more battered men shelters in society, and with more shelters available, the more abused men will feel they have a safe place to go where they won't be terrorized.

But again, this is not the result of too much feminism. It is a by-product of a patriarchal paradigm that assumes men can't be physically hurt, or abused, or raped, by women. Get rid of that assumption about a male nature and a female nature - which feminism addresses squarely with opposition to prescribed gender roles - and we have a more egalitarian approach.

Its a result of seeing men as e abusive ones and females as the nurturing and caring ones. Which is exactly what using word like "patriarchism" to call gender discrimation does.

My argument is that when feminism called itself FEMEinism it is already polarizing things about women nurturing and wheit called patriarchism such it reinforced the associations with males being the opressors. Calling itself feminisms is directly against its own alleged ideology.

If it is so behemently against gender roles and stereotypes what has it done recently to destroy the stereotype of e abusive man who always is the one who victimizes the woman? Maybe I am wrong and it has been doing that, if you caprovide me with such material I'd be grateful

You say and I am aware that it says it is against all gender roles, so I am curois what has it done to combat that one.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Being a movement the only way it could be "against" is by actions.

What has the feminism m ovement done to cambat this then?



Its a result of seeing men as e abusive ones and females as the nurturing and caring ones. Which is exactly what using word like "patriarchism" to call gender discrimation does.

My argument is that when feminism called itself FEMEinism it is already polarizing things about women nurturing and wheit called patriarchism such it reinforced the associations with males being the opressors. Calling itself feminisms is directly against its own alleged ideology.

If it is so behemently against gender roles and stereotypes what has it done recently to destroy the stereotype of e abusive man who always is the one who victimizes the woman? Maybe I am wrong and it has been doing that, if you caprovide me with such material I'd be grateful

You say and I am aware that it says it is against all gender roles, so I am curois what has it done to combat that one.

I'm sorry, but I can't make sense of anything you just posted.

 

[Me Myself]

I'm sorry, but I can't make sense of anything you just posted.

I honestly dont know what cant you make sense of :help:

You say feminism is against gender roles, right?

Well, it is perpetuating a gender as good and and other as bad by word association. "Feminism"(woman) means equality while "patriarchism" (man) means opression.

Further, if you say the current gender roles assignment promotes damage to both genders and feminism =equality then I ask you , what has feminism recently done to combat the associations of man= abusive?

 

[Alceste]

I honestly dont know what cant you make sense of :help:

You say feminism is against gender roles, right?

Well, it is perpetuating a gender as good and and other as bad by word association. "Feminism"(woman) means equality while "patriarchism" (man) means opression.

Further, if you say the current gender roles assignment promotes damage to both genders and feminism =equality then I ask you , what has feminism recently done to combat the associations of man= abusive?

The opposite of patriarchy is matriarchy, not feminism. The former define social systems, the latter defines a philosophy. It is the nature and content of the social systems and philosophies these words describe that define them, not the mere fact that they are built on gender-based root words.

 

[Riverwolf]

Sorry but this is simply not true

Explain.

 

[MoonWater]

Sorry but this is simply not true

really? how so?

 

[Alceste]

Being a movement the only way it could be "against" is by actions.

What has the feminism m ovement done to cambat this then?

.

Also, you keep bringing this thing about domestic abuse against men as if lack of intense, public focus on this one specific issue proves feminists are not genuinely egalitarian.

Are both your legs broken or something? Is there some reason you and other men who are concerned about domestic abuse can't stand up for themselves? Why do you need women to do it for you?

We're kind of busy trying to get people to stop chopping the clitorises off of teenage girls in Africa, throwing acid into the faces of female students in Afghanistan, and taking away our rights to decide if and when we want to have children.

Yes, of course we are against any kind of domestic abuse, but I'm getting tired of you whining that feminists aren't dealing with issues affecting men that are apparently especially important to you. Why don't YOU do something about it? In a patriarchal system, men can make progress on any social issues that affect their own lives much more easily than women can. So go for it! We've got your back!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I've found that being a feminist has gotten me laid much more with better quality sex partners. This in itself is worth it.

Also, intelligent women like a sense of humor.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Explain.

I don't know why I have to explain this to someone who calls themself a feminist but here I go. Feminism is not as simple as believing men and women are equal that would make a lot of woman haters "feminists." First of all feminism is about women's issues/experiences and educating yourself on those issues. It is a process of unlearning sexism and woman hating and patriarchal conditioning. not a passing thought of "oh yeah men and women are equal." It requires you to be critical of male centric-ism. It also means you believe in male privilege and challenging that privilege. And it also means giving women their space to discuss issues with each other and supporting our sisterhood, in other words it means knowing when to butt out.

 

[Me Myself]

Also, you keep bringing this thing about domestic abuse against men as if lack of intense, public focus on this one specific issue proves feminists are not genuinely egalitarian.

I never said women who say are feminists are not egualitarian. I said the movement deals only about injustices against women and not against injustices against men. Thats all.

Then I said that given that gender roles make gender privilege in different situations, including situations in which privilege is in the side of the women, it shod make sense to also be a masculinist, or in other words someone who is also to fight injustice done to men because of their percieved gender roles.

Now, when someone comes and says this is because of what they have decided to call "patriarchism" (term which does not atall demonizes a specifical gender ) they say feminism fights that too.

Well, we know it fights injustice against women, and thats cool, but to tell me it also fights against injustice against men in a regular form I would love to see some of that if you could show it to me