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Large Liquid Water Lake Discovered on Mars

David1967

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What a coincidence. I literally just read this article. I get excited every time a new discovery such as this is made. So in your opinion, do you think there may be some form of life on mars? IDK. But I am hoping. Like the article stated, Where there is water there is generally life. I say land a craft and start drilling. I hope that life on another planet is discovered in my life time. Imagine waking up one morning to the news that we are not alone in the universe. Imagine the changes this would bring. Thanks for sharing.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Water is certainly promising. The other question is the extreme radiation Mars is exposed to.

Still I'm curious enough to keep an eye on the outcome provided I live that long.
 
WalterTrull

WalterTrull

Godfella
If there is Martian life, I certainly hope this forum is extraterrestrial restricted. We can't just, you know, be talking to just any life form.
 
jonathan180iq

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
David1967 said:
So in your opinion, do you think there may be some form of life on mars?
Click to expand...
In my opinion, yes. Mars was warm enough and geologically active for long enough to provide protective and stable environments similar to the early Earth, where life obviously originated because... well, here we are talking to each other. I don't think it progressed very far, mind you. But the long chains of complex organics that have been found, and continue to be found, tell us that something was there. I don't think it was a lush forest world, or anything. But there's good evidence for the former existence of hot microbial baths, if nothing else.

Whatever was once alive, if it's still there anywhere, is going to be found in the brine washes, underground reservoirs, or in places like this polar Lake. You can't go anywhere wet on this planet without finding evidence of the life that's on it. These reservoirs, and perhaps wide-ranging hydraulic chambers, would be like time capsules from the early Martian world, storing samples of whatever there used to be. It's also deep enough that it should have been protected this whole time from the radiation that currently bathes the whole surface. (Just 3-5m down, I think you're fully protected.) This news is bigger than I think people are going to give it credit for.

The most intriguing line in this whole study comes from the full text @ Science:

http://science.sciencemag.org/.../07/24/science.aar7268.full
"The limited raw-data coverage of the SPLD (a few percent of the area of Planum Australe) and the large size required for a meltwater patch to be detectable by MARSIS (several kilometers in diameter and several tens of centimeters in thickness) limit the possibility of identifying small bodies of liquid water or the existence of any hydraulic connection between them. Because of this, there is no reason to conclude that the presence of subsurface water on Mars is limited to a single location."

David1967 said:
I say land a craft and start drilling.
Click to expand...
I'm just as eager, but...

There's an ethics issue that we, as an exploratory species, have to confront soon.
If we do these experiments without using "clean" spacecraft and tools, we're going to be muddying the waters, literally and figuratively, of a possibly biologically viable or active alien environment. Whatever organisms or microorganisms might exist therein could be irreparably damaged in our pursuit of knowledge. I'm just as eager to land exploratory drills as the next guy (all over the Solar System!). But, like with Enceldaus and it's massive subsurface ocean and obvious geothermal activity, if we aren't careful, we could very quickly destroy these delicate natural habitats. And we'd be working with something we don't even remotely understand the chemistry or biology of. Killing off our alien neighbors, no matter how insignificant they might be, would be an utter failure on our part.
 
David1967

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
jonathan180iq said:
In my opinion, yes. Mars was warm enough and geologically active for long enough to provide protective and stable environments similar to the early Earth, where life obviously originated because... well, here we are talking to each other. I don't think it progressed very far, mind you. But the long chains of complex organics that have been found, and continue to be found, tell us that something was there. I don't think it was a lush forest world, or anything. But there's good evidence for the former existence of hot microbial baths, if nothing else.

Whatever was once alive, if it's still there anywhere, is going to be found in the brine washes, underground reservoirs, or in places like this polar Lake. You can't go anywhere wet on this planet without finding evidence of the life that's on it. These reservoirs, and perhaps wide-ranging hydraulic chambers, would be like time capsules from the early Martian world, storing samples of whatever there used to be. It's also deep enough that it should have been protected this whole time from the radiation that currently bathes the whole surface. (Just 3-5m down, I think you're fully protected.) This news is bigger than I think people are going to give it credit for.
Click to expand...

I think there is a good chance that some form of microbial life may be there. That is an exciting prospect. What would be even more exciting would be to find some kind of fossil evidence for say invertebrates and the like. I know. That is probably unlikely ,but I can dream.

jonathan180iq said:
I'm just as eager, but...

There's an ethics issue that we, as an exploratory species, have to confront soon.
If we do these experiments without using "clean" spacecraft and tools, we're going to be muddying the waters, literally and figuratively, of a possibly biologically viable or active alien environment. Whatever organisms or microorganisms might exist therein could be irreparably damaged in our pursuit of knowledge. I'm just as eager to land exploratory drills as the next guy (all over the Solar System!). But, like with Enceldaus and it's massive subsurface ocean and obvious geothermal activity, if we aren't careful, we could very quickly destroy these delicate natural environments. And we'd be working with something we don't even remotely understand the chemistry or biology of. Killing off our alien neighbors, no matter how insignificant they might be, would be an utter failure on our part.
Click to expand...

Interesting how so much of the science fiction we have is about us bringing back some life form that destroys us and not the other way around. Good point.
 
jonathan180iq

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
David1967 said:
I think there is a good chance that some form of microbial life may be there. That is an exciting prospect. What would be even more exciting would be to find some kind of fossil evidence for say invertebrates and the like. I know. That is probably unlikely ,but I can dream.
Click to expand...
I mean, it's not beyond the realm of possibility, I guess. It just depends on how long Mars was hot and wet, and what ingredients were around. Warm, shallow seas were a staple here on the early Earth for a ridiculously long period of time. But like with most studies in our Ordovician layers, the types of organisms that must have existed then simply didn't lend themselves well to preservation or fossilization, which is a shame.

They study of a planet's water tells you an awful lot about the health of the planet itself. What we find on Mars will probably be old, dirty, and sick, like the planet itself. But the prospect of what could be down there is captivating. The future needs dreamers.

David1967 said:
Interesting how so much of the science fiction we have is about us bringing back some life form that destroys us and not the other way around. Good point.
Click to expand...
Yeah. We have to remember that we are the invasive species here.
And we are more than just a mindless survival instinct. So I would hope we do a good job of preserving whatever we may eventually find.
 
David1967

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
jonathan180iq said:
But like with most studies in our Ordovician layers, the types of organisms that must have existed then simply didn't lend themselves well to preservation or fossilization, which is a shame.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you mentioned this. My hobby (one of them anyway) is invertebrate paleontology. One of the best places to dig trilobites is not far from my home. http://www.blk-cat-mtn-trilobites.com/ A friend of mine has worked this area since 1985 and lets me dig there as well. These layers are Devonian and is rich in many varieties of trilobites and other invertebrates. If Mars was warmer and wetter for long enough, there could possibly be fossil evidence in some of the layers that photos show there. All conjecture of course. But the prospect is fascinating.
 
jonathan180iq

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
David1967 said:
I'm glad you mentioned this. My hobby (one of them anyway) is invertebrate paleontology. One of the best places to dig trilobites is not far from my home. http://www.blk-cat-mtn-trilobites.com/ A friend of mine has worked this area since 1985 and lets me dig there as well. These layers are Devonian and is rich in many varieties of trilobites and other invertebrates. If Mars was warmer and wetter for long enough, there could possibly be fossil evidence in some of the layers that photos show there. All conjecture of course. But the prospect is fascinating.
Click to expand...

It certainly is. It's also possible that something beyond our comprehension to this point could have evolved out Mars' independent and different primordial cocktail mix. Or nothing at all... Though I do truly doubt that.

Awesome info about the hobby.
We have quite a bit of property that was originally my grandfather's via a land grand from the US govt. near the turn of the previous century. It is, unfortunately, mostly just a large wash of mudstone and sandstone, with no easily accessible areas for fossil hunting.

The top of the Eastern ridge is a Denovian-Mississippian undivided layer, sliding down Westerly to the Ordovician wash (Chickamauga Group), and then as the grade moves down into the valley, we touch on Knox Group Cambrian areas. I got the wild hair a few years ago to spend time really studying this property geologically and trying to get my hands on something long-extinct, just to say that we could. But there's just no good access spots for anything that might be worthwhile. I've found some interesting, and to this point still unidentified, metallic and magnetic rocks, and volcanic left overs from when the mud pits near the base of the Appalachians were still hot and active. But that's about it.
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
David1967 said:
What a coincidence. I literally just read this article. I get excited every time a new discovery such as this is made. So in your opinion, do you think there may be some form of life on mars? IDK. But I am hoping. Like the article stated, Where there is water there is generally life. I say land a craft and start drilling. I hope that life on another planet is discovered in my life time. Imagine waking up one morning to the news that we are not alone in the universe. Imagine the changes this would bring. Thanks for sharing.
Click to expand...

I think it is not correct to say that "Where there is water there is generally life" since we have only found life on a single planet in the cosmos so far, and water seems to be common in the cosmos, or at least our galaxy. It just is not always in liquid form.

I am optimistic that life does in fact exist elsewhere. I just think that particular statement is unfounded. Perhaps you were speaking only of the earth, in which case my comment does not apply.
 
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