Latest Reports of Past Actions on COVID

[SkepticThinker]

Are you asking about permanent loss of rights or temporary?

Anything that is an example of whatever you're talking about.

What good is a right to life if you have no right to secure your own subsistence without the involvement of others? It's not "left field;" it's as pertinent a question as "Do human beings have a right to life?" (asking both questions within the framework of human societies) Your question proceeds from false assumptions; I have no answer to your question until you account for those assumptions. Hence, my clarifying question.

What would be clarifying here would be for you to answer the questions I posed to you and to give an example of what you're talking about.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

First of all, I would have closed all the national borders back when Covid was starting to become an international problem. Only nationals get in until we better understand the situation and only after a quarantine period.

One thing I do not understand is Mr. Secure the Boarders failed to do exactly that when it was needed the most. It would still be inevitable that it would get here, but at least it would have had a harder time.

 

[Unfettered]

Anything that is an example of whatever you're talking about.

Controls imposed on working, assembly (business, churches, schools, homes (in my state the governor told the population to call the police on their neighbors if they had family or friends over for Thanksgiving dinner), and bodily integrity (vaccine-gated rights)…no equal protection under the laws…suppression of medical practice and treatment…theft of personal wealth (trillions in new fiat money). All examples of rights abuses—human and/or civil.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Controls imposed on working, assembly (business, churches, schools, homes (in my state the governor told the population to call the police on their neighbors if they had family or friends over for Thanksgiving dinner), and bodily integrity (vaccine-gated rights)…no equal protection under the laws…suppression of medical practice and treatment…theft of personal wealth (trillions in new fiat money). All examples of rights abuses—human and/or civil.

Which rights have to do with "controls imposed on working, assembly" ... ? There are already controls imposed on "working, assembly" without COVID even being in the picture.

Bodily integrity? Were you pinned down and forced to get vaccinated?

Unfettered and unregulated "medical practice and treatment" is a right? Since when?

What do you mean by "theft of personal wealth?" Did the government come and take your personal wealth away from you?

I don't see how any of these are rights abuses.

 

[Unfettered]

I don't see how any of these are rights abuses.

I've given you all I'm going to give you here. No worries, though. All good. Carry on.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I've given you all I'm going to give you here. No worries, though. All good. Carry on.

Do you have something against answering questions, responding to points raised in response to yours, and clarifying what it is you're talking about?

 

[Unfettered]

Do you have something against answering questions, responding to points raised in response to yours, and clarifying what it is you're talking about?

No, I don't. But when I perceive that the conversation will not result in mutual understanding, I judge that the best course of action is to disengage. Does that seem reasonable to you?

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, I don't. But when I perceive that the conversation will not result in mutual understanding, I judge that the best course of action is to disengage. Does that seem reasonable to you?

Yes, it is reasonable to assume that if one refuses to answer questions and to clarify their position and provide examples, then that conversation most likely will not end in mutual understanding.

 

[Unfettered]

Yes, it is reasonable to assume that if one refuses to answer questions and to clarify their position and provide examples, then that conversation most likely will not end in mutual understanding.

See now? That's agreeing with something I didn't say. That is "having a conversation with yourself." I don't want to interfere with your conversation. Bowing out.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As any good US citizen would do, I took issue (and take issue) with any law, policy or executive order that usurps authority not granted to government, tramples rights without due process, creates a de facto monarch/dictator, etc.

And yet Jesus expects us to selflessly care for eachother and love one another. But when that was absolutely needed the most so many American Christians decided to be self centered Americans first, Christians behind that, and demanded their rights to go out and do things to spread an extremely contagious and very deadly virus that had no treatment at thw time. They wouldn't even even wear a mask to keep their germs to themselves.

 

[Unfettered]

And yet Jesus expects us to selflessly care for eachother and love one another. But when that was absolutely needed the most so many American Christians decided to be self centered Americans first, Christians behind that, and demanded their rights to go out and do things to spread an extremely contagious and very deadly virus that had no treatment at thw time. They wouldn't even even wear a mask to keep their germs to themselves.

Jesus would never compel people to "selflessly" care for others. The irony... Talk about having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof!

 

[Koldo]

Yes, it is reasonable to assume that if one refuses to answer questions and to clarify their position and provide examples, then that conversation most likely will not end in mutual understanding.

There is nothing extra to be understood though. It is just typical selfishness hiding behind the disguise of defending rights. Nothing new under the sun.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Jesus would never compel people to "selflessly" care for others. The irony... Talk about having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof!

Jesus does compel people. Do it his way or you'll be roasting eternally with me.

 

[Unfettered]

Jesus does compel people. Do it his way or you'll be roasting eternally with me.

No, Jesus doesn't compel people; we've been free to choose since before we were born. He teaches the way to be happy, and prophesies of hell so that those who choose it are left without excuse.

Hell is not hot.

Hell is not permanent, but for a very, very few.

Not sure where you're getting your information about Jesus and hell, though I can makes guesses.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, Jesus doesn't compel people; we've been free to choose since before we were born. He teaches the way to be happy, and prophesies of hell so that those who choose it are left without excuse.

Hell is not hot.

Hell is not permanent, but for a very, very few.

Not sure where you're getting your information about Jesus and hell, though I can makes guesses.

The point was, American Christian, particularly Conservatives, failed to love and care for theor neighbors when they needed it the most. A deadly virus was stuffing morgues around the world and these Christians threw a historic adult tantrum amd demanded their rights and wrought great destruction and death in their wake. They didn't think of employees in those businesses they demanded to use. They had not a thought for patients and the resources for care they needed. They didn't care about tue healthcare workers they made overworked and overstressed. It was me, me, me and my rights.
Even still, this thread they cry over the businesses amd their precious economy but shed not a tear for the thousand scores dead, a deathtoll so high it was disproportionately higher to the rest of the world.
That's what this economy amd "my rights" garbage got us.

 

[Unfettered]

The point was, American Christian, particularly Conservatives, failed to love and care for theor neighbors when they needed it the most.

I observed the opposite; I observed people helping one another and looking out for one another and serving one another—without being told to do so. I also observed many of those same people speaking out against compulsion and control. Perhaps where you live people were not so magnanimous as they were where I live. Perhaps you consumed a heavy amount of media or social media sensationalism or editorializing. I can't speak to what you observed or consumed. I just know that what you describe is foreign to what I experienced.

A deadly virus was stuffing morgues around the world and these Christians threw a historic adult tantrum amd demanded their rights and wrought great destruction and death in their wake.

That you single out Christians suggests prejudice. Persons of all walks of life and belief spoke out against oppression, etc.

Even still, this thread they cry over the businesses amd their precious economy but shed not a tear for the thousand scores dead, a deathtoll so high it was disproportionately higher to the rest of the world.

The dead have been mourned; their suffering is ended; they aren't benefited by more macro mourning. They are comforted and honored by the love and memories extended and remembered by those who shared their love in life; they care little for the mourning of strangers. If I had died of COVID and my loved ones were railing on others about not caring about me, I'd whisper into my loved ones' ears that they are dishonoring me by exalting my death above that of those who died during the pandemic from other causes.

Meanwhile, anyone injured by the pandemic who lives today with the effects—be they of whatever kind—continues to suffer. And where they justly ascribe their suffering to the actions of others, they rightfully—not wrongfully—speak about it, lest those who abused them during the pandemic return to their abusive ways when conditions again tempt them to panic and act dictatorially.

That's what this economy amd "my rights" garbage got us.

You are not obligated to look upon human rights—those of others or even your own—as things of value...as things to fight for. You can disdain them all you like. But you are wrong to find fault with those who do value them and fight for them. On every level that is wrong. It is anti-social. Every human being matters. Their rights matter. All their rights; all the time. Always. Not just when it's "business as usual." And it is never wrong to fight for everyone's rights. And it is never wrong to raise one's voice when someone's rights—anyone's rights—are being subordinated below those of others.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Perhaps where you live people were not so magnanimous as they were where I live.

Where I lived people were good in public. They generally kept their distance and wore a mask. But they still gathered and partied in their homes. They still ate at restaurants when we had no treatment or vaccine. Publicly the compliance was good, but privately the behavior was so reckless and foolish that when my dad fell off a ladder the hospital didn't have a room for him because the hospital was stuffed with covid patients.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I observed the opposite; I observed people helping one another and looking out for one another and serving one another—without being told to do so. I also observed many of those same people speaking out against compulsion and control. Perhaps where you live people were not so magnanimous as they were where I live. Perhaps you consumed a heavy amount of media or social media sensationalism or editorializing. I can't speak to what you observed or consumed. I just know that what you describe is foreign to what I experienced.

That you single out Christians suggests prejudice. Persons of all walks of life and belief spoke out against oppression, etc.

The dead have been mourned; their suffering is ended; they aren't benefited by more macro mourning. They are comforted and honored by the love and memories extended and remembered by those who shared their love in life; they care little for the mourning of strangers. If I had died of COVID and my loved ones were railing on others about not caring about me, I'd whisper into my loved ones' ears that they are dishonoring me by exalting my death above that of those who died during the pandemic from other causes.

Meanwhile, anyone injured by the pandemic who lives today with the effects—be they of whatever kind—continues to suffer. And where they justly ascribe their suffering to the actions of others, they rightfully—not wrongfully—speak about it, lest those who abused them during the pandemic return to their abusive ways when conditions again tempt them to panic and act dictatorially.

You are not obligated to look upon human rights—those of others or even your own—as things of value...as things to fight for. You can disdain them all you like. But you are wrong to find fault with those who do value them and fight for them. On every level that is wrong. It is anti-social. Every human being matters. Their rights matter. All their rights; all the time. Always. Not just when it's "business as usual." And it is never wrong to fight for everyone's rights. And it is never wrong to raise one's voice when someone's rights—anyone's rights—are being subordinated below those of others.

It sounds to me like you just basically said that the people who died from COVID are better off than the people who are still alive and "suffering."

 

[Koldo]

You are not obligated to look upon human rights—those of others or even your own—as things of value...as things to fight for. You can disdain them all you like. But you are wrong to find fault with those who do value them and fight for them. On every level that is wrong. It is anti-social. Every human being matters. Their rights matter. All their rights; all the time. Always. Not just when it's "business as usual." And it is never wrong to fight for everyone's rights. And it is never wrong to raise one's voice when someone's rights—anyone's rights—are being subordinated below those of others.

Except when it comes down to the right to health and life. Because everyone can use their freedoms to trample over them, right?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You are not obligated to look upon human rights—those of others or even your own—as things of value...as things to fight for. You can disdain them all you like. But you are wrong to find fault with those who do value them and fight for them. On every level that is wrong. It is anti-social. Every human being matters. Their rights matter. All their rights; all the time. Always. Not just when it's "business as usual." And it is never wrong to fight for everyone's rights. And it is never wrong to raise one's voice when someone's rights—anyone's rights—are being subordinated below those of others.

I don't disdain rights. I acknowledge they come with great responsibility. This does mean at times having to yield my rights to the rights of another. A global pandemic means limiting myself even further to keep myself and others safe. People have a right to health and life, and acting carelessly during a global pandemic violates those rights.

That you single out Christians suggests prejudice. Persons of all walks of life and belief spoke out against oppression, etc.

I speak ill of them. But right now I'm focusing on a group more relevant to here. And it's not all Christians. I narrowed that one down too.
And no, there wasn't people of all walks of life speaking out against what you call "oppression." Many countries, who rank higher than us on levels of freedom, had the mentality that it's fools who didn't take the precautions and risks seriously. These are the countries that had lower death rates.

Perhaps you consumed a heavy amount of media or social media sensationalism or editorializing. I can't speak to what you observed or consumed. I just know that what you describe is foreign to what I experienced.

That doesn't really describe what you saw though.

The dead have been mourned; their suffering is ended; they aren't benefited by more macro mourning. They are comforted and honored by the love and memories extended and remembered by those who shared their love in life; they care little for the mourning of strangers. If I had died of COVID and my loved ones were railing on others about not caring about me, I'd whisper into my loved ones' ears that they are dishonoring me by exalting my death above that of those who died during the pandemic from other causes.

All that does is separate related events from the whole. And it denies that America taken covid restrictions more seriously them most of the dead would still be alive. Healthcare providers wouldn't have quit in droves.

Meanwhile, anyone injured by the pandemic who lives today with the effects—be they of whatever kind—continues to suffer. And where they justly ascribe their suffering to the actions of others, they rightfully—not wrongfully—speak about it, lest those who abused them during the pandemic return to their abusive ways when conditions again tempt them to panic and act dictatorially.

The ones who abused others where those who wouldn't refrain from gatherings or wear a mask while in public (or they wore it under their chin or nose).