LDS and Evangelical men – Discussing spiritual truths for the sake of our families

[Mustard Seed]

BT: If your reading this and im not one of the one's on ignore hear me out.....

For the sake of us "readers" would you please get on with the debate. Like I've said before, I would love to hear what you have to say. But posting long scripture for our enlightenment does not get us anywhere. You need to back up your posts.

The whole problem is: Your saying what you think they think. Try listening and you will see that its two opposite messages. Then maybe this debate will go somewhere.
Regardless of whether its a male or female.

Thanks,

darnell

 

[porkchop]

Bible Truth,


Would you please answer a question for us all? You say that you do not want women participating in this thread and have berated the LDS women for answering, yet you let porkchop waltz on in without saying a thing. Why is that?

That'd be because i said i wouldnt be participating on this debate, thuogh i suppose by posting that, and also winding nutshell up about wink smilies you could argue i was participating.
OOOpss! Im doing it again, last time, promise!!!

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

priesthood?. Jesus Christ gave the priesthood to His original Twelve Apostles, and they directed the work of His Church after Jesus ascended to heaven. After the Apostles were killed, the priesthood gradually disappeared from the earth.

the first apostles also predicted or prophesied that there would be a "falling away" or another translation of this is the "apostasy" which mean rebellion. they also prophesied of the "fullness of times" (look at my signature). for example the practice of vicious works for the dead was a legitimist Christian practice in the first century of the Christian church (which there was no way Joseph could of known and is something that theologians are now just finding out within the past 40 years or so) read the pasture of Hurmas (spelling??) for further reading for on such example. it would be good for you to look up the qualifications of being an apostles each modern day apostles fulfills each requirement, just as Peter and Paul and the rest...

 

[SoyLeche]

I am not running for, nor will I accept the nomination for, "Official LDS Discusser/Debator"!

Jeesh! What did I ever do to deserve this honor?

You can't put him on ignore

 

[nutshell]

That'd be because i said i wouldnt be participating on this debate, thuogh i suppose by posting that, and also winding nutshell up about wink smilies you could argue i was participating.
OOOpss! Im doing it again, last time, promise!!!

I don't like big smiles either.

 

[Katzpur]

You can't put him on ignore

I know, but he can't put me on ignore, either. It's probably, as he would say, "by divine ordination."

 

[SoyLeche]

I know, but he can't put me on ignore, either. It's probably, as he would say, "by divine ordination."

See - that makes you the perfect candidate. The rest of us can just stop talking to him altogether and let you two have it out.

 

[bible truth]

BT: If your reading this and im not one of the one's on ignore hear me out.....

For the sake of us "readers" would you please get on with the debate. Like I've said before, I would love to hear what you have to say. But posting long scripture for our enlightenment does not get us anywhere. You need to back up your posts.

The whole problem is: Your saying what you think they think. Try listening and you will see that its two opposite messages. Then maybe this debate will go somewhere.
Regardless of whether its a male or female.

Thanks,

darnell

Thanks Darnell for your kind and gentler way of sharing,

Because I have a much higher view of Scripture than “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints”, I trust in the Bible as God’s final authority pertaining to all things regarding the Christian Faith. My personal opinions are meaningless, because I am a sinner in process. All Christians know in part and have indwelling sin remaining in them. The Bible has hidden spiritual truths and is a closed book for spiritual understanding and edification. God made it this way for His purpose.

God uses the Word of God to quicken His elect through the preaching of the gospel (Christ Crucified) by granting them a spiritual birth, and adopting them into the family of God. After a sinner is forgiven and secured by the perfect work of Christ (justification), the Christian life thereafter is the process of sanctification through the power and ministry of God the Holy Spirit.

In the passages below from the book of Hebrews, you have essential Christian doctrine that does not line-up with official LDS essential doctrine. When an organization breaks from Orthodox Christianity, there is a shift from the sufficiency of Scripture to another apparent superior form of authority. The LDS Church proclaims “apostolic succession” or claiming a greater authority than the Scriptures. This idea of authority above the Bible alone is taught by the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Islam, etc. The LDS church always has a way to avoid biblical truths by the officially using the phrase "if properly translated..." and the official teaching of the apostasy of the Christian church for 1,900 years.

http://www.mormon.org/mormonorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=b4f4055b23710110VgnVCM1000003a94610aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=1ca36db0580a1110VgnVCM100000176f620a____

Within the book of Hebrews, you will find that Jesus Christ Himself (God in the flesh), is the ultimate and final prophet, priest, and King. When Christ ascended to Heaven, He did not transfer His authority to an organization. Christ promised to send the Holy Spirit (God) to dwell inside the believer to guide adopted sinners through the discernment of the Bible alone (John 17;17). The standing before a Holy God for the redeemed sinner is always from the sufficient work of Christ (earned on behalf of forgiven sinners).

Christianity is a 100% works righteousness, requiring complete obedience to God’s will (sinlessness). God the Father is Holy and without sin. Through the instrument of faith alone, God imputes or credits the perfect work of Christ to the forgiven sinner at the point of conversion (justification – Romans chapter 3 and chapter 4). The work of Christ covers the redeemed sinner at the point of justification, sanctification (life of a Christian), and glorification (in Heaven). I have highlighted verses that are important to understand and study within the light of Scripture alone, judging official LDS doctrine found on LDS.org. - BT

Hebrews 1

In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

Hebrews 4

A Sabbath-Rest for the People of God

Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
"So I declared on oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my rest.' " And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: "And on the seventh day God rested from all his work."And again in the passage above he says, "They shall never enter my rest."
It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts."For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Jesus the Great High Priest

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

 

[MaddLlama]

BT, frankly, if you lack the ability to form your own opinion, then engaging in debate with other people is the last thing you should be doing.

 

[bible truth]

Darnell,

What are you going to believe? The Bible declares that God's elect (all those that are or will be united to Christ by faith alone) consist of the royal priesthoold. The LDS Church teaches that priesthood is exclusive, found within the walls of the LDS organization. This is the ultimate answer for you and your family. - BT

1 Peter 2

Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.

The Living Stone and a Chosen People

As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him— you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For in Scripture it says:
"See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame." Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
"The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone,"and,
"A stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul. Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.
______________________________________________________________
The Restoration of Truth
The Restoration of the Priesthood

Throughout time, God has given His servants, the prophets, the authority to act in His name. This

Authority

The right to function in certain capacities in the Church.


authority? is called the

Priesthood

The power and authority of God, given to men on earth to act in all things for the salvation of God’s children.


priesthood?. Jesus Christ gave the priesthood to His original Twelve Apostles, and they directed the work of His Church after Jesus ascended to heaven. After the Apostles were killed, the priesthood gradually disappeared from the earth.

In 1829, Joseph Smith received the restored priesthood authority to organize Christ’s Church. John the Baptist appeared and conferred upon Joseph Smith and his associate Oliver Cowdery the

Aaronic Priesthood

The lesser priesthood. This priesthood includes the authority to baptize and is named for Aaron in the Old Testament of the Bible


Aaronic Priesthood?, which includes the authority to perform the

Ordinance

A sacred rite or ceremony performed by the power of the priesthood and intended to bless God’s children. Some ordinances, such as baptism, are essential for salvation. Other ordinances, such as administering to the sick, constitute gifts from God to His children which are not essential for salvation. Many ordinances have symbolic meaning.


ordinance? of

Baptism

An essential step in receiving forgiveness of sins. Through baptism and confirmation by priesthood authority, we become members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Baptism is by immersion, meaning that the person being baptized is briefly submerged in water. Baptism shows our willingness to follow Christ’s example and to make covenants with God.


baptism?. Later, Peter, James, and John (three of Christ’s original Apostles) appeared and conferred the

Melchizedek Priesthood

The higher or greater priesthood. It is named for Melchizedek in the Old Testament of the Bible, who was a righteous high priest and king. It includes the authority to preside over the Church and to preform all ordinances, including giving the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Melchizedek Priesthood? upon Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery, restoring the same authority given to Christ’s Apostles anciently. In 1830, with this priesthood authority, the same Church of Jesus Christ that existed centuries ago was organized and restored to the earth by Joseph Smith.

A living prophet—the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—is the authorized successor to Joseph Smith. He and the present

Apostle

One sent forth to serve as a special witness of Jesus Christ. There are fifteen Apostles living on the earth today. They make up the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church.


Apostles? trace their authority to Jesus Christ in an unbroken chain of ordinations through Joseph Smith.

All male members of the Church who are worthy and prepared may receive the priesthood to help lead the Church and serve Heavenly Father’s children. A man with the priesthood might serve by leading congregations of the Church, performing the ordinances of the Church (such as baptism), and blessing those who are sick. God expects those who hold this sacred priesthood authority to follow the example of Jesus Christ and serve with love, gentleness, and kindness.

 

[Comprehend]

Darnell,

What are you going to believe? The Bible declares that God's elect (all those that are or will be united to Christ by faith alone) consist of the royal priesthoold. The LDS Church teaches that priesthood is exclusive, found within the walls of the LDS organization. This is the ultimate answer for you and your family. - BT

1 Peter 2

Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.

The Living Stone and a Chosen People

As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him— you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For in Scripture it says:
"See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame." Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
"The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone,"and,
"A stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul. Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

Heb 5:4-10
4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as [was] Aaron.
5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
6 As he saith also in another [place], Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

 

[Bishka]

Darnell,

What are you going to believe? This is the ultimate answer for you and your family. - BT

I believe that Darnell has already made his choice. Trying to convince we are some bad, non-Christian, and non-believing-of-the-Bible Church is not going to work. It is sad that you have to resort to this. I will not engage you in debate unless to correct errors and misconceptions. If I see a factual error, I will correct it, but I WILL not engage in your pointless debates.

 

[Comprehend]

I know, but he can't put me on ignore, either. It's probably, as he would say, "by divine ordination."

Maybe it's just LOVE.

 

[Comprehend]

I believe that Darnell has already made his choice. Trying to convince we are some bad, non-Christian, and non-believing-of-the-Bible Church is not going to work. It is sad that you have to resort to this. I will not engage you in debate unless to correct errors and misconceptions. If I see a factual error, I will correct it, but I WILL not engage in your pointless debates.

yeah, and proselyting is against forum rules.

 

[Jistyr]

Hey Jistyr

Thanks for the question. You are welcome to participate in this Thread . However, I believer forum guidelines are to stay within the specific Thread topic. I don't believe your question fits within the intent of this particualr Thread. Evangelicals and LDS members agree that the Bible is the Word of God. I would suggest that you start another Thread in regards to your excellent question on slavery. - BT

You seemed so eager to answer my question, but you still have failed to do so. If you need me to refresh your memory I have a thread dedicated to you on the question.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51064

Please just read the OP and answer me in the same exact way that I asked for in this thread. I hope to see you answer my question soon.

Edit: And how ironic that you would enforce the forum guidlines (and tell me to post my question elsewhere) on your forum that breaks the rules even after you were notified by a moderator. Now that's interesting.

 

[bible truth]

You seemed so eager to answer my question, but you still have failed to do so. If you need me to refresh your memory I have a thread dedicated to you on the question.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51064

Please just read the OP and answer me in the same exact way that I asked for in this thread. I hope to see you answer my question soon.

Edit: And how ironic that you would enforce the forum guidlines (and tell me to post my question elsewhere) on your forum that breaks the rules even after you were notified by a moderator. Now that's interesting.

Hi Jistyr

Thank you for reminding me of your request and starting the new Thread. It appears many have responded with their posts to your Thread. It is very time consuming to debate "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" and "Roman Catholicism" at the same time. I see that you are an agnostic-atheist. In your belief of atheism, it is another issue to debate. I will trust that other biblical Christians have answered your slavery question to your satisfaction. I won't have time at this moment to start a new debate in regards to atheism. It's a good question, but not a new question. I would love to share with you once I am finished debating Mormonism or Roman Catholicism. There are other very solid evangelical Christians on the site that would love to share Christ with you in the interim. - BT

 

[Jistyr]

Hi Jistyr

Thank you for reminding me of your request and starting the new Thread. It appears many have responded with their posts to your Thread. It is very time consuming to debate "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" and "Roman Catholicism" at the same time. I see that you are an agnostic-atheist. In your belief of atheism, it is another issue to debate. I will trust that other biblical Christians have answered your slavery question to your satisfaction. I won't have time at this moment to start a new debate in regards to atheism. It's a good question, but not a new question. I would love to share with you once I am finished debating Mormonism or Roman Catholicism. There are other very solid evangelical Christians on the site that would love to share Christ with you in the interim. - BT

Oh, but please I just want your simple answer. You already avoided it on this forum and I don't see why you want me to take the answers of other people when the thread is titled To Bible Truth (On Biblical Slavery). It seems I have posed to you a question that you refuse to answer, so I'll make it easy on you. I'll give you your two possible choices, A and B, and on this form or the one dedicated to you, simply type A or B.

A. Slavery is wrong, and the Bible does have room for exception. Perhaps I am disobeying God, but it is in the interest of all that is good in society.

B. If the Bible claims that slavery is fine, then it is. I will not disobey God, and if God says that slaves are allowed, then I'm all for it.

 

[bible truth]

Oh, but please I just want your simple answer. You already avoided it on this forum and I don't see why you want me to take the answers of other people when the thread is titled To Bible Truth (On Biblical Slavery). It seems I have posed to you a question that you refuse to answer, so I'll make it easy on you. I'll give you your two possible choices, A and B, and on this form or the one dedicated to you, simply type A or B.

A. Slavery is wrong, and the Bible does have room for exception. Perhaps I am disobeying God, but it is in the interest of all that is good in society.

B. If the Bible claims that slavery is fine, then it is. I will not disobey God, and if God says that slaves are allowed, then I'm all for it.

The Bible declares to be the Word of God...God breathed by an infinite mind. People have been studying the Bible for thousands of years. We are finite fallen creatures. Here's a link on biblical slavery for you to study. Please make sure you consider all of the biblical references to slavery. - BT

http://bibleresources.bible.com/key...ion1=31&numpageresults=25&sortorder=bookorder

 

[Jistyr]

Please, do not circumnaviagte. Tell me what you think.

 

[Jistyr]

Bible Truth,

Well, I am no longer going to pursue you for an answer to my question, for you are just far too stubborn to answer.

I am simply going to state that due to your reaction I surely believe that I, along with everyone else (who I doubt will disagree), has a definite right to question your mental capacity.

But I think we do that already.