LDS: for all of you who disagree with a Prophet of God regarding Proposition 8

[LuisDantas]

Agreed, However, the Aposltes of Christ's true church are definitely not "weak in wisdom"

I must doubt that to some degree, if they see fit to advise against letting homosexual couples that have no lack of honor or love to each other have their commitments recognized by the State. Sorry, but that's how it is.

 

[madhatter85]

I must doubt that to some degree, if they see fit to advise against letting homosexual couples that have no lack of honor or love to each other have their commitments recognized by the State. Sorry, but that's how it is.

and that's your right to disagree, the point i was making was for those of us who are LDS and believe that we should heed the council of God's prophets.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

I am so pleased I live in the UK and don't have to deal with any of this!

 

[Alizée]

That was not incorrect of Joseph Smith, it was instituted of God.

Blacks not having the Preisthood was instituted of God?

Very funny. Not.

Would you care to explain how not giving blacks the priesthood was instituted by God when it was never even and official doctrine just an "official policy"?

 

[Watchmen]

I hate to ruin all of your fun. To change the California constitution it needs a 2/3 vote by the state assembly so the vote will be over turned. Sorry folks its the law.

First, this is an LDS forum.

Second, the constitution wasn't changed - it was amended. The people can amend with a majority passing a proposition. A revision can only be done by the legislature. That's actually what the challenge is: Is Prop 8 a revision or an amendment. To the lay person it's tough to see the distinction, but most legal experts have admitted the argument that Prop 8 is actually a revision is a long shot.

Now - would you like to have a discussion? If so, cut out the big colored font routine and lets talk. If not - go away.

 

[madhatter85]

Blacks not having the Preisthood was instituted of God?

Very funny. Not.

Would you care to explain how not giving blacks the priesthood was instituted by God when it was never even and official doctrine just an "official policy"?

no, it was official doctrine. any person is bondage to another cannot be ordained to an office in the priesthood. Back then most of the blacks were slaves. the time came in the 1970's for the priesthood to be given to all worthy males.

 

[Alizée]

no, it was official doctrine. any person is bondage to another cannot be ordained to an office in the priesthood. Back then most of the blacks were slaves. the time came in the 1970's for the priesthood to be given to all worthy males.

It's unfortunate how little you understand what actually went on.

Blacks and the Priesthood

Summary of Important Dates

1836: In March, Elijah Abel, a black man, is ordained to the office of Elder.
1836: In December, Elijah Abel, is ordained to the office of Seventy.
1844: Walker Lewis, a black man, is ordained to the office of Elder.
1846: William McCary, a black man, is ordained to the office of Elder.
1900: Enoch Abel, the son of Elijah Abel, is ordained to the office of Elder.
1935: Elijah Abel, grandson of Elijah Abel, is ordained to the office of Elder.
1958: All black Melanesians (Fijians) are given the priesthood (blacks in the Philippines even earlier)
1978: Revelation on Priesthood gives the priesthood to all worthy men regardless of color.
1990: Helvecio Martins becomes first black General Authority Seventy.
Additional blacks were ordained in the early years of the church.

Care to comment on the timeline?

Dispelling the Black Myth

Why the ban? The official statement from the Church is, “We don’t know.” However, we did not say the Lord instituted the ban. As a matter of fact, there is nowhere in scripture that says the Lord banned blacks from holding the priesthood

The LDS Church and the Race Issue

Forget everything I have said, or what…Brigham Young…or
whomsoever has said…that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with
a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come
into the world.

This statement by Elder McConkie in August of 1978 is an apt characterization of the doctrine and apologetic commentary so pervasive in the Church prior to the revelation on the priesthood earlier that year.

Where in Doctrine and Covenants Section 101:79 does it specify that men cannot have the Preisthood if they are in bondage? With this include POW's, men involved in some sort of sin or another, new members to the Church, people with mental diseases, etc?

"79. Therefore, it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another."

 

[want to be hindu]

First, this is an LDS forum.

Now - would you like to have a discussion? If so, cut out the big colored font routine and lets talk. If not - go away.

I am very sorry I did not notice that I was on the LDS forum. The big print was just so I would be sure to be noticed. Again I am very sorry.

 

[Watchmen]

no, it was official doctrine. any person is bondage to another cannot be ordained to an office in the priesthood. Back then most of the blacks were slaves. the time came in the 1970's for the priesthood to be given to all worthy males.

Blacks were ordained to the priesthood in Joseph Smith's time. He visited them and they broke bread together.

 

[Watchmen]

I am very sorry I did not notice that I was on the LDS forum. The big print was just so I would be sure to be noticed. Again I am very sorry.

NO problem!!! Please feel free to post. We just have to make sure it's a "discussion" instead of a "debate." I hope I didn't come off as harsh - it's a sensitive time for all parties involved. I especially feel like I'm in a corner because I'm defied the majority of my Church on the one hand, but the gay community still doesn't like me because I remain a member of the Church. It's a tought spot to be in.

As for the legal challenge - it will be interesting to see what will happen, but I believe Prop 8 will have to be overturned by the people in 2 or 4 years - not by the courts.

 

[want to be hindu]

I especially feel like I'm in a corner because I'm defied the majority of my Church on the one hand, but the gay community still doesn't like me because I remain a member of the Church. It's a tought spot to be in.

I had a friend that was a Marxist who converted to LDS. I asked her why in the world would you join up with the LDS if you are a Marxist. She said that there was no official political pressure in the LDS church.That it was perfectly ok to be a Marxist and a Mormon. I have never had one problem with the Mormons. I find them to be less judgemental and very kind.I think its because of all the years of religious persecution in our country.But I have never talked about the Gay "issue" with them.

 

[Watchmen]

I had a friend that was a Marxist who converted to LDS. I asked her why in the world would you join up with the LDS if you are a Marxist. She said that there was no official political pressure in the LDS church.That it was perfectly ok to be a Marxist and a Mormon. I have never had one problem with the Mormons. I find them to be less judgemental and very kind.I think its because of all the years of religious persecution in our country.But I have never talked about the Gay "issue" with them.

Wow - I never heard of a Marxist Mormon before - I'm glad your friend felt accepted and free from pressure.

 

[madhatter85]

Blacks were ordained to the priesthood in Joseph Smith's time. He visited them and they broke bread together.

yes, i know, please visit Why This Web Site :: Blacklds.org for important details.

 

[Alizée]

yes, i know, please visit Why This Web Site :: Blacklds.org for important details.

Then why are you ignorant about the issue in the posts that I addressed? Or are you now claiming full knowledge on the topic?

 

[FFH]

I get the feeling that...

Alizee is (BeckySoup/Bishka)
DisneyMan is (Nutshell)

Amy I right ???

 

[FFH]

I am so pleased I live in the UK and don't have to deal with any of this!

Yeah, but that would be too boring.

Nothing like a good protest and debate to keep you awake and on your toes.

 

[Father Heathen]

I get the feeling that...

Alizee is (BeckySoup/Bishka)
DisneyMan is (Nutshell)

Amy I right ???

:sarcastic

If true, welcome back.

 

[FFH]

:sarcastic

If true, welcome back.

If it's true, they probably won't give away their true identity, so we may never know.

I just haven't seen Beacky Soup/Bishka for a while, nor Nutshell. I know Nutshell was banned, I just sometimes wonder if he's still posting here under another username.

 

[Worshipper]

Wow - I never heard of a Marxist Mormon before - I'm glad your friend felt accepted and free from pressure.

You've never heard of Joseph Smith?

"And they had all things common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift. . . . Neither were there Lamanites, nor any manner of -ites; but they were in one, the children of Christ, and heirs to the kingdom of God." (4 Nephi 1:3,17)

"But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin." (D&C 49:20)

"Nevertheless, inasmuch as they receive more than is needful for their necessities and their wants, it shall be given into my storehouse." (D&C 70:7)

"And you are to be equal, or in other words, you are to have equal claims on the properties, for the benefit of managing the concerns of your stewardships, every man according to his wants and his needs, inasmuch as his wants are just — and all this for the benefit of the church of the living God, that every man may improve upon his talent, that every man may gain other talents, yea, even an hundred fold, to be cast into the Lord’s storehouse, to become the common property of the whole church — every man seeking the interest of his neighbor, and doing all things with an eye single to the glory of God." (D&C 82:17-19)

Of course, Joseph Smith lived before Marx, so he couldn't be a Marxist. And of course, these words came through Joseph Smith rather than from Joseph Smith. It's possible that he personally disagreed with them.

Nevertheless, there's good scriptural justification for any member of the Church to believe in the fundamental Marxist principle: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!"

 

[deseretgov]

I don't think the church was wrong with blacks and the priesthood. We may not know everything right now but when we get to meet God everything will become clear and obvious. We'll say, "Of course it had to be that way."