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LDS letter on same-sex marriage

Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
madhatter85 said:
It doesn't. that is my whole point. you cannot compare Gays to blacks because the two do not correlate at all
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First, they do. Second, even if you don't like that comparison, you can then make the comparison between gays and Mormons. As I said in my last post, which you've conveniently grossed over, I explained the inconsistency of your ideas. You want religious people to get special exceptions to laws, but you think gay people shouldn't get special consideration, even though they're not asking for it.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
madhatter85 said:
It doesn't. that is my whole point.
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Actually, the way you've been moving your goalposts, I'd say it's more of a long, wobbly line than a point now.

madhatter85 said:
you cannot compare Gays to blacks because the two do not correlate at all
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Sure they do. They correlate in all sorts of ways.

Let's see how. To get the ball rolling: what is the reason for legal equality on the basis of race? Hint: it's not genetics.
 
madhatter85

madhatter85

Transhumanist
9-10ths_Penguin said:
Sure they do. They correlate in all sorts of ways.
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I have yet to see how. nobody has provided an explanation other than "They do!" :rolleyes:

Let's see how. To get the ball rolling: what is the reason for legal equality on the basis of race? Hint: it's not genetics.
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Technically it was. You have to realize that the discrimination was based on outward appearances and thinking that they were "savages". They were considered less than human based on genetic differences whether or not they knew that at the time.

Simply being 'black' (genetics) has no effect on their behavior. Behavioral differences between cultures are based on socioeconomic development including everything from their parents treatment of them to the conditions of their community.
 
no-body

no-body

Well-Known Member
madhatter85 said:
Simply being 'black' (genetics) has no effect on their behavior. Behavioral differences between cultures are based on socioeconomic development including everything from their parents treatment of them to the conditions of their community.
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Did you just imply your own culture and background are superior to others?
 
no-body

no-body

Well-Known Member
madhatter85 said:
:confused:............:facepalm:

that would be an astounding "no"
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oh OK.

Simply being 'black' (genetics) has no effect on their behavior. Behavioral differences between cultures are based on socioeconomic development including everything from their parents treatment of them to the conditions of their community.
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Same with being gay.You have to do a lot of twisting and bigoted thinking to twist homosexual acts as negative even if someone "chooses" to do them.
 
Watchmen

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
happyhummingbird said:
Well, you see, many members of the LDS Church think that GBLT people choose to be gay. Isn't that just wrong?
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While "many members of the LDS Church" might think it's a choice, general authorities have expressly stated that they do not know whether it's biological or environmental or a choice or a combination.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
madhatter85 said:
no you posed another question rather than an answer.
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I posed it in order to work toward an answer.

I'll let you peek a few pages ahead: once we come to an agreement on the basis of legal equality between races, I'm going to explore whether the same basis applies in the case of same-sex marriage.

However, we can't do step 2 until we do step 1. So... are you going to work with me? Will you tell me what you think is the basis for legal equality between races?

madhatter85 said:
I would like for you to explain how it is you think that being black, white, asian, or any other ethnicity compares to being "gay".
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Here's why, IMO:

Regardless of whether a person is black, white asian or any other ethnicity, that person is still a person and therefore is entitled to all rights afforded to a person on the basis of his or her personhood.

Similarily, regardless of whether a person is gay, straight, bi, or any other sexual orientation, that person is still a person and therefore is entitled to all rights afforded to a person on the basis of his or her personhood.
 
Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
madhatter85 said:
please explain to me how gays and blacks correlate.
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Well, it's simple. They are both groups of people who been discriminated against on the basis of something beyond their control. Whether or not homosexuality is technically a choice, it's not a choice like which car you buy. It's not like gay people one day say "Hey, I think I'll be gay. It's realization they come to, and they can't say "Hey, I don't feel like being yay, so I'm going to be straight".


Now, I find it quite interesting that you ignored my second point (again). How do you explain the fact that you want religious people to get special concessions, but then you say groups of people shouldn't get special concessions?
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Actually, h's saying certain religious groups get special treatment... the ones that agree with him. All religious groups that have no problem with GBLT members do not deserve freedom of religion.

Freedom of religion is only for those who don't support GBLT rights.

wa:do
 
happyhummingbird

happyhummingbird

Member
Watchmen said:
While "many members of the LDS Church" might think it's a choice, general authorities have expressly stated that they do not know whether it's biological or environmental or a choice or a combination.
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Which just reinforces the beliefs that people "could" choose in the members minds. You know that if the First Presidency doesn't take a stand on it, people will always believe that it was a choice.
 
dallas1125

dallas1125

Covert Operative
happyhummingbird said:
Which just reinforces the beliefs that people "could" choose in the members minds. You know that if the First Presidency doesn't take a stand on it, people will always believe that it was a choice.
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I disagree, I am glad the first presidency has taken no stance. Let the members think for themselves.
 
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