LDS letter on same-sex marriage

[Magic Man]

If you don't think I have a fact-based opinion then why does my opinion matter so much to you?

Because it's your opinion that is trampling on gay people's rights.

 

[Magic Man]

I will always vote to preserve the sanctity of marriage as an institution designed to bear and raise children.

Good, then whenever there's a vote concerning marriage within the LDS church, you can vote that way. But when there's a vote concerning legal marriage, "sanctity of marriage" isn't something you should be concerned with, especially considering legal marriage isn't about bearing and raising children, but about rights and benefits for the spouses that have nothing to do with kids.

It is fundamental to any society that has not been destroyed by natural selection

I'm not at all sure what you're talking about here, but marriage is not fundamental to any society.

 

[Apex]

Violating peoples rights seems actually secondary to the fact that homosexuality is described as some sort of disease that needs to be cured. That belief sounds like child abuse to me if you have an overzealous LDS parent.

You didn't answer my question.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But as I have said before they are already treated equally regardless of their ideas of what marriage should be.

You didn't even bother to read my post, did you?

 

[Watchmen]

Good, then whenever there's a vote concerning marriage within the LDS church, you can vote that way. But when there's a vote concerning legal marriage, "sanctity of marriage" isn't something you should be concerned with, especially considering legal marriage isn't about bearing and raising children, but about rights and benefits for the spouses that have nothing to do with kids.

While I opposed Prop 8, your post is absurd. You're telling someone not to vote their conscience. People should be free to vote their conscience and, if their conscience is opposed to the constitution, the checks and balances in place will straighten things out.

 

[painted wolf]

I am not saying that at all. There are plenty of religions out there and I am not diminishing their value in any way. I was mentioning "non-religions" because someone coined that phrase which is counter-intuitive.

Then perhaps you can address my point?
why does your religion get to tell my religion what to think about gay marriage?

How is that freedom of religion?

wa:do

 

[madhatter85]

Good, then whenever there's a vote concerning marriage within the LDS church, you can vote that way. But when there's a vote concerning legal marriage, "sanctity of marriage" isn't something you should be concerned with, especially considering legal marriage isn't about bearing and raising children, but about rights and benefits for the spouses that have nothing to do with kids.

It is unfortunate that is what marriage has become. a hollow shell of what it was intended for. I will still vote to try and preserve the last bit of the sanctity of marriage.

 

[madhatter85]

Then perhaps you can address my point?
why does your religion get to tell my religion what to think about gay marriage?

How is that freedom of religion?

wa:do

nobody is telling you what to think at all :thud:

We are allowed to vote and worship however we see fit because of the wonderful concept of freedom. If i think something is bad for this country then I will vote against it. If i see something as benefiting society, then I will vote for it. Gay marriage, to me, does not benefit society in the least part.

 

[darkendless]

While I opposed Prop 8, your post is absurd. You're telling someone not to vote their conscience. People should be free to vote their conscience and, if their conscience is opposed to the constitution, the checks and balances in place will straighten things out.

Some people have a messed up conscience. People who oppose gay-marriage are amoung them for denying others rights they take for granted.

I can't believe in this day and age people think its acceptable to legislate love, and that major religious organisations (bar individuals who's conscience is human) fight to prevent two people who love each other from marrying as if marriage is restricted to religious people only. Really does make one realise the damage religion can do to people who can't think for themselves.

Thankfully some religious people are very open-minded and if only their voices were louder.

 

[darkendless]

nobody is telling you what to think at all :thud:

We are allowed to vote and worship however we see fit because of the wonderful concept of freedom. If i think something is bad for this country then I will vote against it. If i see something as benefiting society, then I will vote for it. Gay marriage, to me, does not benefit society in the least part.

Freedom that you force on others by preventing them marrying WHOEVER they want.

Sure they can marry, but only if it doesn't offend you christian folk.

Gay marriage benefits the well-being of society. Allowing people to be happy and promote uniform equality. Preventing marriage because of certain traites can be paralleded with Adolf Hitler (to a minor extent) who also denied rights to homosexuals and treated them like second class citizens, much like you seem happy to do.

NOTE: Bold words in brackets because i'm not comparing LDS to Nazis, but i see similarites in mentality.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Gay marriage, to me, does not benefit society in the least part.

You don't consider gay couples and their kids to be part of society?

 

[darkendless]

You don't consider gay couples and their kids to be part of society?

Because the bible considers it an abomination?

 

[painted wolf]

nobody is telling you what to think at all :thud:

We are allowed to vote and worship however we see fit because of the wonderful concept of freedom. If i think something is bad for this country then I will vote against it. If i see something as benefiting society, then I will vote for it. Gay marriage, to me, does not benefit society in the least part.

So you don't mind voting against the first amendment then?

Gay marriage benefits my local economy, my friends, my family and so on. You may not feel it benefits you but you are not only responsible to yourself, and the freedoms granted in the first amendment are not based on what one religion or individual feels is best for society.

wa:do

ps. yes you are telling me what i should believe and what my religion should practice.

 

[Magic Man]

While I opposed Prop 8, your post is absurd. You're telling someone not to vote their conscience. People should be free to vote their conscience and, if their conscience is opposed to the constitution, the checks and balances in place will straighten things out.

You should go back and read my post. This is a highly inaccurate interpretation of what I said. I didn't even tell someone how to vote, just what they should be concerned with when voting. The "sanctity of marriage" is irrelevant to legal marriages. It's only a concern when talking about the religious ceremony.

Plus, I never even implied that people shouldn't be free to vote however they want. But people do have a responsibility to vote informedly. Realizing that words like "sanctity" have nothing to do with a conversation about legal contracts like marriage is the least I can expect of someone living in a democracy.

In fact, the whole point of my post was that this is not about him voting his conscience since we're not talking about religious marriage.

 

[Magic Man]

It is unfortunate that is what marriage has become. a hollow shell of what it was intended for.

It hasn't become any of that. Marriage has always been about a lot more than having kids. But we're also talking about a legal contract, not a religious ceremony. So, whatever your particular religious ceremony was intended for from the beginning is irrelevant to the question of legal marriage.

And there's nothing unfortunate about a legal contract that bestows certain rights and benefits on the couple involved.

I will still vote to try and preserve the last bit of the sanctity of marriage.

Good. Again, you do that, when the question of religious marriage comes up. But when its a question of legal marriage, this nonsense has no business being mentioned. Sanctity is an irrelevant concept to legal contracts. Please learn the difference. Do us all a favor.

 

[Magic Man]

nobody is telling you what to think at all :thud:

We are allowed to vote and worship however we see fit because of the wonderful concept of freedom. If i think something is bad for this country then I will vote against it. If i see something as benefiting society, then I will vote for it.

You also have a responsibility as a voting member of a democracy to inform yourself on the issues. You are extremely ignorant in a willful manner on this issue.

Gay marriage, to me, does not benefit society in the least part.

And here is a perfect example of your ignorance. How do you figure allowing gay parents to be legally married doesn't benefit society? And that's only one way it does.

 

[Watchmen]

You should go back and read my post. This is a highly inaccurate interpretation of what I said. I didn't even tell someone how to vote, just what they should be concerned with when voting. The "sanctity of marriage" is irrelevant to legal marriages. It's only a concern when talking about the religious ceremony.

Plus, I never even implied that people shouldn't be free to vote however they want. But people do have a responsibility to vote informedly. Realizing that words like "sanctity" have nothing to do with a conversation about legal contracts like marriage is the least I can expect of someone living in a democracy.

In fact, the whole point of my post was that this is not about him voting his conscience since we're not talking about religious marriage.

"Sanctity" may have no meaning to you, but it may have meaning to another and there's no reason why that meaning should not influence his or her vote.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It is unfortunate that is what marriage has become. a hollow shell of what it was intended for.

Frankly, that's how I feel when I hear people argue that marriage is all about breeding and not about love.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest because our marriage ceremonies are spiritual and not temporal.

If the concern of the LDS Church is spiritual marriage, then why does the church insist on sticking its nose into the temporal marriage of non-Mormons?

Just like my wife and I were married civilly first and then we were married in the temple together for time and all eternity. It was really special for us

I wonder if your wife would feel special if (heaven forbid) you were in an accident, the nurses refused to let her see you on your death bed, the state took away custody of the children, and she was denied your pension and social security. Because that is the danger for same-sex couples in states with no gay marriage.

 

[painted wolf]

"Sanctity" may have no meaning to you, but it may have meaning to another and there's no reason why that meaning should not influence his or her vote.

Are you suggestion that there is no sanctity in a marriage performed by a religion that accepts gay marriage?

Perhaps strait people who complain about loss of sanctity should look to other strait people rather than blaming GBLT people?

wa:do