Are you suggesting that sex is spiritually destructive? If so, how is it spiritually destructive? I'm curious about your views on this.
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LDS letter on same-sex marriage
- Thread starter 9-10ths_Penguin
- Start date
Are you suggesting that sex is spiritually destructive? If so, how is it spiritually destructive? I'm curious about your views on this.
To fantome profane.
That is what it seem to me, the majority of homosexual came from a family that are not homosexual themselves, they endure great opposition from their families, a father always look at a son as his successor, the one that is going to give him grandsons to play with, to teach them what been a man entails, that his son may adopt is never in his mind, if the father is a Christian, he dreams of seen him marrying a beautiful woman in his church in front of his brethren, he feel the pride already, the mother is the same, their siblings are no lees exited, when a son announces that he wants to marry a person of the same sex, what do you think happens? disapproval, disappointment, anger, shame, right? After all of this these individuals persist in their vice, and what is their answer, I cant help it, I am gay.
Statistics data show that these commitment are less stable than that of heterosexual, which is pretty bad at present.
This is from a discussion in Australia between Senator Bob Brown and Senator Jim Wallace in terms of commitment in time, we as I mentioned there know that homosexual relationships in Holland, steady partnerships last on an average 18 months whereas marriage, regardless of what our friend said before about having a number of goes in Australia, they still last an average of 32 years. That's a vast difference.
We've had the circumstances where France has looked at this option and has said, no, we're not going to do this because it opens up too many options to bury relationship and to dilute the concept of marriage.
Lateline - 20/02/2008: Gay marriage debate - Tony Jones talks to Jim Wallace and Bob Brown
That is what it seem to me, the majority of homosexual came from a family that are not homosexual themselves, they endure great opposition from their families, a father always look at a son as his successor, the one that is going to give him grandsons to play with, to teach them what been a man entails, that his son may adopt is never in his mind, if the father is a Christian, he dreams of seen him marrying a beautiful woman in his church in front of his brethren, he feel the pride already, the mother is the same, their siblings are no lees exited, when a son announces that he wants to marry a person of the same sex, what do you think happens? disapproval, disappointment, anger, shame, right? After all of this these individuals persist in their vice, and what is their answer, I cant help it, I am gay.
people stand so strongly against people making a commitment to monogamy.
Statistics data show that these commitment are less stable than that of heterosexual, which is pretty bad at present.
This is from a discussion in Australia between Senator Bob Brown and Senator Jim Wallace in terms of commitment in time, we as I mentioned there know that homosexual relationships in Holland, steady partnerships last on an average 18 months whereas marriage, regardless of what our friend said before about having a number of goes in Australia, they still last an average of 32 years. That's a vast difference.
We've had the circumstances where France has looked at this option and has said, no, we're not going to do this because it opens up too many options to bury relationship and to dilute the concept of marriage.
Lateline - 20/02/2008: Gay marriage debate - Tony Jones talks to Jim Wallace and Bob Brown
The unnatural sex that homosexual engage in is, and is extremely risky because the skin breakage that occur in such an act, it leaves the body at risk of been invaded by those dreadful blood to blood transmitted diseases. Engaging in vices weaken the capacity to abstain.
But I was wondering what you meant by "spiritually destructive"? Could you elaborate on that?
Well that is Christian thing, you wont understand.
Nanda
Polyanna
As though heterosexuals never engage in anal intercourse. And what of lesbians?
What a cop out. Believe it or not, most of us have little trouble grasping Christian concepts, so why don't you give it a shot, huh?
It blows my mind just how backwards you have got things. The vice here is the anger, the judgment, the condemnation that you talk about. The vice is the discrimination that same-sex couples face. The vice is bigotry.
Love and commitment are not vices. When you speak as if it is assumed that homosexuals engaging in a loving relationship is a vice your own thinking becomes incredibly perverse and twisted. And to do this in the name of Jesus Christ is absolutely nauseating. You talk about a man who taught that love was the key to salvation, but you claim to speak in his name telling people that loving commitment is a vice. Show me where Christ ever said that love was a vice!
Can you give me any references for this? Or are you expecting us just to take Jim Wallaces word for it. If you actual looked into this quote I think you would find that the statistics he mention have nothing at all to do with marriage. He is misrepresenting the data, either deliberately or through incompetence.
Take a look at these pages:
Jim Wallace from the Australian Christian Lobby is a bald-faced liar.
Gay marriage: The Australian Christian Lobby on Lateline
What the Dutch Study Really Says About Gay Couples
If by "Christian thing", you mean it's irrational, then yes, there's a part of me that just would not understand -- or at least accept -- that sort of thinking.
it's probably more likely that he meant you wouldn't understand the significance of the concept. I don't mean to defend him - I disagree with him. But, I think I understand what he's saying. It seems like a cop out, but isn't it possible that if a person doesn't belong to a "club" they might not understand the significance of that "club's" teachings?
Do you mean the emotional significance of the concept to a Christian? If so, I can see your point, at least partly.
As though heterosexuals never engage in anal intercourse. And what of lesbians?
And how natural do you think this practices are? I was told that the satisfaction that homosexuals get from sex is a sort of prostate massage. How much pleasure do these guy (anal intercourse) think that the female get out of it? Lesbians may gave more fun as they use sex toys. Still the pleasure is one way and is selfish in both case, Ill even say exploitative, what do you think?
What a cop out. Believe it or not, most of us have little trouble grasping Christian concepts, so why don't you give it a shot, huh?
Well since there is a Saint of the lost causes ( I may get a nomination for this one) In Christianity we believe that those in sin are spiritually dead and that God/Jesus can make them alive if they repent and turn from the path that lead to spiritual death and condemnation, How that sound to you? Seen people in that path and not say or do anything is unloving.
Should we ligalised anal intercouse? Sodomise your wife in Australia (non-consentual) is still a crinal act.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
And which sexual act is legal without consent?
Fantome Profane I hope that you are in one piece and not blown away, cause there is more shocks for you: This is false Love and commitment are not vices. When you speak as if it is assumed that homosexuals engaging in a loving relationship is a vice your own thinking becomes incredibly perverse and twisted. And to do this in the name of Jesus Christ is absolutely nauseating. You talk about a man who taught that love was the key to salvation, but you claim to speak in his name telling people that loving commitment is a vice. Show me where Christ ever said that love was a vice!
What the man Jesus in whom the word tabernacled it self taught is that Repentance and a change of direction saves you from destruction and condemnation.
A vice is a repeated wrong action, love is the right action and the force that compels Christian to action. Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, Repent! For the kingdom of Heaven is at hand.
Mat 11:20 Then He began to upbraid the cities in which most of His mighty works were done, because they did not repent.
I like Augustines Love the sinner but hate the sin if you love them you want then saved to the kingdom of God and you hate the sin that spiritually kill them and separated them from God.
What the man Jesus in whom the word tabernacled it self taught is that Repentance and a change of direction saves you from destruction and condemnation.
A vice is a repeated wrong action, love is the right action and the force that compels Christian to action. Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, Repent! For the kingdom of Heaven is at hand.
Mat 11:20 Then He began to upbraid the cities in which most of His mighty works were done, because they did not repent.
I like Augustines Love the sinner but hate the sin if you love them you want then saved to the kingdom of God and you hate the sin that spiritually kill them and separated them from God.
None yet, but you can bet your house that those that practice it are working toward that end, everything is up there to be challenged, we have become so tolerant that why not amend the law and make it legal to use women for an unnatural act whether they wanted or not, it could be made part of marital rights, it harms no one, right?
on the contrary, rape is extremely harmful. Most of the damage being psychological... and often that's the worst kind of damage as one never truly heals from it. But it is also very damaging emotionally and(depending on the rapist) physically damaging as well. Thus your statment "it harms no one" is completely false. Now you know that and were trying to make a point but if you were your going to have to elaborate a bit more. Are you trying to equate homosexuality with rape, are you using the slippery slop fallacy and claiming that if we legalize homosexual marriage then eventually rape will be legal as well, which I can assure you even if by some seriously demented twist of fate rape did become legal we would either break out in civil war or most of the women and many men would just up and leave causing the whole country to collapse. Your arguments make no sense and have no evidence to back them up, not to mention the number of fallacies you've commited. If you believe homosexuality is wrong fine, don't partake in homosexual acts. If you believe that it is your duty, that it is loving to tell homosexuals that they are living in sin and will go to hell if they don't repent then say so, if they tell you to "bugger off and mind your own buisness" then accept the fact that not everyone is going to agree with and move on, you will gang nothing but enemies by trying to shove your beliefs down other people's throats.
Here's something I can promise you. If such a proposition ever manages to reach the Senate, the only thing that they would debate about would be how to destroy the documents.
Have you completely forgotten about the Womens' Rights movements? They'd be up in arms about that in a heartbeat.
Homosexuality is not as damaging as non-consensual sex, in fact it isn't damaging at all. It's not at all appropriate to even mention them in the same breath.
Nanda
Polyanna
Well, since people the world over do it frequently, and regardless of gender and sexual orientation, I'm going to go with pretty natural.
I wouldn't know what these guys think, being a woman and all, but I do know that lots of females profess to love it.
There's nothing selfish about taking pleasure from your partner, or giving pleasure to your partner. It's kind of the whole point.
Yes, What happens between two consenting adults in their own bedroom is none of the government's business.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Unnatural act?
You have not shown that any sexual act is unnatural.
Care to present something other than your appeal to religion based opinion?
Can you provide an example of any that exist in California, where the distinction isn't in place because of the US Constitution (since it does take precedence over the state Constitution)?
Ah... so you're saying that despite the (IMO) clear prohibition of it in the State Constitution, discrimination on the basis of gender is legal in California? :sarcastic
You're being evasive. I'm asking you to explain why you think that prohibiting same-sex marriage would be legal under current California law.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Is it that you can't understand or refuse to understand the concept of consent? You can compare homosexuality to rape all you want, but that doesn't make it true. Acts that are not consensual are illegal, acts that are consensual, like a normal homosexual relationship, are not illegal. The reason is the former harms someone, while the latter hurts no one.