There should be no difference between a same sex marriage or a different sex marriage. Legally they should have the same rights.
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LDS letter on same-sex marriage
- Thread starter 9-10ths_Penguin
- Start date
There should be no difference between a same sex marriage or a different sex marriage. Legally they should have the same rights.
There is a difference between a nation with many Christians and a Christian nation. How many of the Catholics, Anglicans, Protestants, etc. that you listed would say that their religious views should be imposed on the minority, however small? That's the statistic that's relevant, and I doubt that it was in the census.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
You are un-Australian. There should be equal rights for all Australian based on civil rights, not your stupid religion that likes to exclude people. No your thinking is a perversion of justice. What if i don't recognise your marriage because of my religion. Should it be live with it or f*** off? No, so how the hell can you be so damn ignorant of rights you enjoy but are happy to deny others? You only like this country because you're the one who gets to crush other people's rights. Im sorry but i cannot respect your opinion when its so so elitest. If i was a praying man i'd pray God can find it in his heart to forgive you for being so judgemental.
For the record im as straight as can be. I could never be gay. Im just in favour of all Australians having equal rights, but thanks for your pathetic insult.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Wayyyyyyy to many. There is no other word to describe the mentality of my country on this issue other than pathetic
Its very very sad. What these bigots fail to recognise is things can easily be reversed, then how would they feel?
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Really? Nothing? Straight people don't love each other? Live together? Make a commitment to each other? Share intimacy? Make a family? Share their finances? Try to stay together for their entire lives? Be faithful to one another? Laugh together? Comfort each other? Care for each other? Because gay people do.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Um...you must be mistaken. Gay people obviously don't do that stuff. To them it's only about lust and selfishness and sleeping with someone different every night.
Orontes
Master of the Horse
I see. You've got several famous cases you asked about. Why don't you pick one you are interested in and I can give you the skinny on how it would be interpreted. That way we can focus and go into detail if needed.
As a primer maybe I can give you a simple example from Mormon history. In the 1830's Mormons were in dire straights in Missouri. Lots of nasty things were happening where ultimately the then Governor issued an extermination order of all Mormons. During this mayhem, Joseph Smith traveled to Washington and spoke with President Van Buren asking for help. Van Buren's response is famous in Mormon quarters (at least among those who delve into this kind of stuff): "Sir, your cause is just, but I can do nothing for you." Now, this is typically interpreted as Van Buren refusing to help because he was afraid of losing Missouri in the next election and so he is usually condemned. Whether these fears existed or not, the legal reality is there was little Van Buren could do: the Bill of Rights did not apply to the states and wouldn't until after the Civil War. From an Orginalist perspective Van Buren's response was correct.
Originalism recognizes that justice and the law do not always correspond. Yet the hope for justice, must come through a loyalty to the base system (over a particular perceived injustice) because it is this larger loyalty to the system that serves as the glue for society and legitimacy. In the system, the Legislative Branch is the first among equals. The Judicial Branch is supposed to be the least powerful of the three. This is because the Judiciary is the farthest removed from the will/control of the people. The ranking of the respective branches is seen not only in how they are ordered in the Constitution, but also the length of treatment and powers assigned to each. The construction of law and rights is the purview of the legislature. When the legislature refuses to take up its mantle or that mantle is usurped by the another branch, there is a real fear of authoritarianism and social breakdown. There are multiple examples along these lines. Roe v Wade is a simple illustration of a Judicial usurpation and the various Modern military ventures Presidents have committed the nation to, independent of a Congressional declaration of war or equivalent sanction, would be examples of Executive usurpations of power. In simple terms, originalism recognizes that power is dangerous: concentrated power all the more so. What can give a thing can also take it away. Defused power and the hope in the collective wisdom of the citizenry is the only option against authoritarianism. Judicial Imperialism is an authoritarianism. It is dangerous. The people will no doubt err, but in maintaining open dialogue in the public square and constantly referring to the popular will (in its myriad forms) what fails one day has hope to succeed another. Thus the bounds of society remain an ultimate reflection of the people and their responsibility. As Jefferson said: "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" this is a vigilance against all authoritarian penchants.
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Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
O.K., thanks for your total failure to respond to my question. It doesn't require any discussion at all. (And you wonder why you have trouble communicating.) All you need to do is go through the list and say: Yes, I support the ruling, or no, I don't. Thank you. Sheez.
To all, my responses to Darkenless are with reference to Australia, the country I call home, I enjoyed certain right and some are particular to gender, gay peoples organisations managed to get us into debates on this issue a while back, the final conclusion was that gay is not a gender and that their unions are not marriages because our civil authorities define marriages as the union of a male and a female, and it works for us, this is a good country, one that we like to call The lucky Country and I call it greatly blessed by God. That does not mean that there are no Homosexual living as couples, its just that this is not considered a marriage and certainly not equal to marriage.
In essence they do what married people do, but marriage is between a male and female, so this cannot be call marriage, and it is insult to the will of the majority to call it so, and put it on par with marriage. Why do you want to call it marriages and seek equality? This is a unique a behaviour and quite unnatural, I can live with it but I dont want my childrens children to be taught that it is equal/same as my marriage or their parent's marriage.
All nations of the world have a common will and morality that applies to all, when Christian vote on any issue of consultation we do as Christian, is inseparable from our being, the minority will must be acknowledged and respected as opinion, but the will of the majority is what must followed, the majority will of my country is that marriage is between a man and a woman, no other kind of union can be called marriage. The US has a complete different constitution they just finished sorting this out and there is still non-acceptance of the majority will, they have a problem, actually they have lots of problem, is this a priority problem? I don’t think so, that Nation finances are on the red, and went for solutions that will cause an exodus of capital to other nations and the whole thing may collapse.
Mormons are donating their time and money to determine and enforce on a legal level how people who are not mormons should live. They are taking money and calling people and rallying to change the lives of thousands of people who are not mormons.
They are not bicycling to your house and reasoning with you... they are going over your head and getting the government to support and enforce their way.
This is what they support under the guise of free speech and their entitled to their opinion.
I can not wait for this to get overturned. ALL MEN and WOMEN are created equal and are entitled to the same rights no matter what you think. They have the same right to their beliefs and their pursuit of happiness.
I get more and more annoyed the more I read about this issue. They are enforcing and pushing their own personal beleifs our country demands they get the right to have onto people saying that their way of life and their personal beliefs are wrong.
Sexual preference, Personal Preference, Color of skin... people think that their little unresearched personal sheltered and pathetic personal opinion on a matter is so important that people they have never met who have lives they cant even fathom need to change their ways because obviously its gods will or the bible says so... Your so much better? You are now god and judge everyone and think your will should be done? You think its wrong... I get it... dont do it... But two consenting adults that dont think its wrong can do whatever the hell they want and you dont get a say... And regardless of what goes on and you can let your mind run wild... you dont get a say... its not your issue... go talk to your mom and dad or preacher... They are equal to you. You are not better. They are not worse. They are equal. And they get the same legal rights as you. If you dont think so then you have a problem with the american way.
Honestly I am quite hetero but as an american this is revolting and disturbing!
They are not bicycling to your house and reasoning with you... they are going over your head and getting the government to support and enforce their way.
This is what they support under the guise of free speech and their entitled to their opinion.
I can not wait for this to get overturned. ALL MEN and WOMEN are created equal and are entitled to the same rights no matter what you think. They have the same right to their beliefs and their pursuit of happiness.
I get more and more annoyed the more I read about this issue. They are enforcing and pushing their own personal beleifs our country demands they get the right to have onto people saying that their way of life and their personal beliefs are wrong.
Sexual preference, Personal Preference, Color of skin... people think that their little unresearched personal sheltered and pathetic personal opinion on a matter is so important that people they have never met who have lives they cant even fathom need to change their ways because obviously its gods will or the bible says so... Your so much better? You are now god and judge everyone and think your will should be done? You think its wrong... I get it... dont do it... But two consenting adults that dont think its wrong can do whatever the hell they want and you dont get a say... And regardless of what goes on and you can let your mind run wild... you dont get a say... its not your issue... go talk to your mom and dad or preacher... They are equal to you. You are not better. They are not worse. They are equal. And they get the same legal rights as you. If you dont think so then you have a problem with the american way.
Honestly I am quite hetero but as an american this is revolting and disturbing!
Luminous
non-existential luminary
this is not even a sentence. with that comma, are you( or your chosen version )implying that Jesus of Nazareth said "I AM" as in the name of the jewish god? and then said a sentence fragment. perfection must be perfect.
if the mormons love democracy so much then fine, the world should be one giant democrazy in which China and India dictate all rights.(cuz they have large populations and might all somehow agree to make it illegal for there to be more than ten mormons at a time like China is doing with New Wheel Buddhist monks in Tibet.
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darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
How does the right to be married make our country work? Homosexual marriage will not change a single thing. It will not affect you at all Emiliano. Why cant you see that? Why can't anyone see that. You argue that they cannot reproduce, but they won't reproduce anyway. They're gay Emiliano, just because you can't accept it that won't make them take a woman/man that they won't love. You can't keep forcing a superficial society, it will fall. I hope one day you see your error in condemning your countrymen.
You seem to be under the impression that I am Mormon, I am not, but I can explain to you what this is all about, in the Pentateuch (Torah) we find that when Moses asked God who do I say that has sent me? God responded And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM. And He said, So you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to youThe Samaritans are the sons of Jacob/Israel Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank of it himself, and his children and his cattle?
The second part of your post is confusing and disorganised and no deserving a response.
Apex
Somewhere Around Nothing
I am a Mormon, and I am doing/have done none of what you have described above. Stop generalizing. You are also conveniently ignoring the fact that 95% of the people who voted yes were not Mormon.
It has work for us in that we are not engaged in endless arguments and debates and our political leader and the judicial body can get on with more important issues, as you said the gay thing wont make an iota of difference, there is no interest in this issue, it a done a deal, same sex marriages are not considered marriages, we dont have the problem that the US has because our constitution is different, it allows for popular consultations that are the way to gauge the will of the majority, once that is established an act of parliament is gazetted, a plebiscites can even change the constitution. I have a great opinion of my countrymen, I think that this is a great nation, a blessed nation, am happy here, the constitution defines marriage the same way as I do, they give us a fair go, there are opportunities to better ourselves and we have a great social security system, you on other hand come across as bitter and resented, What keeps you here? There are more opportunities in the US for gay right activist, in Australia they have no support.
I was not implying all mormons... I probably would have said all mormons or every single lds member or used some other all inclusive term to show I meant every mormon. In fact I have on this issue explicitly stated before that I know it is not all mormons.
I'm not ignoring the other people who voted yes. Every man and woman in this country is equal and entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness... be you blue, brown, catholic, gay, lesbian, female, male, born with horns or a mormon...
Equal. I wish people would respect others and understand that what rights they enjoy - EVERYONE is also entitled to them. Who they love should not limit them or make them any less equal.
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darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Are you living under a rock?
You get a fair go, You have the oppurtunites. Homosexuals do not because we're just another preachy country.
Would you think less of this country if they made all Australian's equal by allowing homosexual marriage? If so why? Does it affect you? Do you have a moral obligation to try and deny people their rights because of your God?
Emiliano you seem to be living in a dream world. You have never been around Gay people have you? You're so ignorant of these people and what they're like its rediculous. Given that how can you so blatently put them down? You obviously don't think of them as people, rather inconvenient statistics.
You say its not an issue but it is. Australia had to spend a few million$$$ to stop them protesting for their rights during world youth day. Those people didn't just come out for that oppurtunity. It seems as though you're ignoring them just like politicians are to lazy to tackle the problem. They've had years, they just choose not to do anything about it.
I'm not a Gay activist, im just sick of Church groups mainly getting away with things like this. I have no faith in our Government who can give native's more rights than us, but take them away from a minority.
This can get circular from this point forward, so from your last post I gather that you are very unhappy in this country of our, are you still thinking on leaving? You are right I have not meet many gay people and as I told you this behaviours affect less than 3% of the population and that is the way is going to stay, the will of the majority is that marriage is between a man and a woman, there is no such thing as same sex marriages, the fact that we have decide that is the way that it must be causes me no distress whatsoever. I must tell you that I live in the very real world of our present times, we dealt with this issue and it was resolved a while ago and there is not intention on a new popular consultation, however over there in America this in a ebullient stage, so perhaps you should think on a move to the US, you are in the wrong country.
About the money that our government spends is keeping order, peace and reputation, is money well spent, we are in control of the situation, they also spent big, but with no result.
You seem to be ignorant of the History and culture of this country and are quite un-Australian, you have had plenty opportunities to decide if this country is really right for you, from what you puke in in here, Why the hell you stay?