LDS Only: Is Miracle of Forgiveness Doctrinal?

[Bishka]

Same thign for the Ensign and New Era, They are all Doctrinally Binding, Theya re considered Modern Day Scripture. our general Authorities provide us revelation and publish it, present it in confrences, write it in other books. But no book written by a prophet has been so important to members of the church that "The Miracle of Forgiveness"

So that fuzzy little feel-good story in the New Era is doctrinally binding? I must believe it to get to heaven?

Those magazines and book are no more doctrinally binding then "The 8 Be's" or "Standing for Something". It's a nice commentary, but it is NOT a standard work.

 

[Katzpur]

why would you attempt to "interpet" what the prophets have spoken? Are their words not valid at face value?

MadHatter, Im not going to waste my time arguing with you about this. I'll tell you like I've told FFH on numerous occasions and then I'll shut up about it. According to Harold B. Lee: All that we teach in this Church ought to be couched in the scriptures. We call these the standard Church works because they are standard. If you want to measure truth, measure it by the four standard Church works. If it is not in the standard works, you may well assume that it is speculation. It is man’s own personal opinion.

Nobody is trying to say that "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is not an excellent book and a wonderful commentary on the doctrine of forgiveness. It is NOT, however, one of the Standard Works. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you're wrong. Period. The end.

 

[madhatter85]

So that fuzzy little feel-good story in the New Era is doctrinally binding? I must believe it to get to heaven?

Those magazines and book are no more doctrinally binding then "The 8 Be's" or "Standing for Something". It's a nice commentary, but it is NOT a standard work.

I'm stating that they are considered modern day scripture. The words of our prophets are modern day scripture.

"The Miracle of Forgiveness" is a doctrinal comentary. There isn't anything new in there at all, it's just organized in a more "user-friendly" way

.
it is a commentary on already existing doctrine, also providing more insight as to the true nature of things we don;t nomrally think about.

The Book of Mormon is a 2nd Testament of jesus Christ, It quotes the prophet Isaiah numerous times, as well as other prophets mentioned in the bible. Half of 2nd Nephi is a commentary on already existing Doctrine, I fail to see the difference, Both written by prophets of our Heavenly Father, Both are commentaries and yet you don't think that one of the mis scripture? Why is that?

 

[Bishka]

, Both are commentaries and yet you don't think that one of the mis scripture? Why is that?

Because it is not in our Standard Works, if you look above at Katzpur's post, you will understand my position.

 

[madhatter85]

MadHatter, Im not going to waste my time arguing with you about this. I'll tell you like I've told FFH on numerous occasions and then I'll shut up about it. According to Harold B. Lee: All that we teach in this Church ought to be couched in the scriptures. We call these the standard Church works because they are standard. If you want to measure truth, measure it by the four standard Church works. If it is not in the standard works, you may well assume that it is speculation. It is man’s own personal opinion.

Nobody is trying to say that "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is not an excellent book and a wonderful commentary on the doctrine of forgiveness. It is NOT, however, one of the Standard Works. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you're wrong. Period. The end.

Full name: Harold Bingham Lee
Born: March 28, 1899(1899-03-28)
Place of birth: Clifton, Idaho
Died: December 26, 1973 (aged 74)
Place of death: Salt Lake City, Utah

The Miracle of Forgiveness is a book written by Spencer W. Kimball, who was a member of Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (He later became the President of The Church).
The book discusses the issues of repentance and forgiveness through Jesus Christ in LDS theology. It is primarily written for an LDS audience.
The book was originally published in 1969.

Harold Died 4 years after the book was published,

His comments of the 4 standard works that you quoted was (IE, Jan. 1969, p. 13.) [LPFALC, p. 66.]

Before Spencer W. Kimball's Book was even published.

Next.

 

[Bishka]

Harold Died 4 years after the book was published,

His comments of the 4 standard works that you quoted was (IE, Jan. 1969, p. 13.) [LPFALC, p. 66.]

Before Spencer W. Kimball's Book was even published.

Next.

So? Just because he died before the book was published does not mean his words mean any less. I thought you had more respect for the words of the Prophets. :areyoucra

 

[madhatter85]

So? Just because he died before the book was published does not mean his words mean any less. I thought you had more respect for the words of the Prophets. :areyoucra

The Fact is that when he said it the Book did nto even exist, there could have been no mention of a book that didn't exist then. Step around your own words more carefully next time.

His words are just as valid now as before he died, but the fact remains he didn't even know of the book when it was stated.

 

[Bishka]

His words are just as valid now as before he died, but the fact remains he didn't even know of the book when it was stated.

His words are still just as true. Our Standard Works are The Bible, The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. That's it.

 

[madhatter85]

His words are still just as true. Our Standard Works are The Bible, The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. That's it.

So you think there can be no more revelation given beyond our "4 standard works?" if you think that you are terribly mistaken. That way of thinking is for Catholics and other rligions. They believe there can be no more revelation given, Read 2nd Nephi 29:

7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?
8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.

9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.

10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.

11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.

D&C -

38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

 

[Bishka]

So you think there can be no more revelation given beyond our "4 standard works?"

Never said that. Those are the only works that are doctrinally binding to us Latter-day Saints. I fully believe in continuing revelation -- yet revelation may not be doctrinally binding to all Latter-day Saint unless it is found in the Standard Works (i.e. Official Proclamation 1 & 2). I also do not doubt that sometime in the future that the Proclamation to the World will be in with our standard works -- it's not yet.

Read 2nd Nephi 29:

Is there a reason you are quoting scripture to me?

 

[rocka21]

So you think there can be no more revelation given beyond our "4 standard works?" if you think that you are terribly mistaken. That way of thinking is for Catholics and other rligions. They believe there can be no more revelation given, Read 2nd Nephi 29:

thats why we have different denominations today. People get new revelation all the time. you can't put God in a box, he will break out of it! Good Point.

by the way , i am not debating this topic, before becky chews me out. I just thought this is a good point.

 

[FFH]

Those who go on missions are told only to bring scriptures, Jesus the Christ and Gospel Doctrines, I need to pull that out again and review.....

Miracle of Forgiveness, Ensign, New Era, etc. are sold in the LDS distribution center so they are good approved LDS reading materials...

 

[Bishka]

Those who go on missions are told only to bring scriptures, Jesus the Christ and the Gospel Doctrine handbook...

Thank you! :yes:

 

[madhatter85]

Never said that. Those are the only works that are doctrinally binding to us Latter-day Saints. I fully believe in continuing revelation -- yet revelation may not be doctrinally binding to all Latter-day Saint unless it is found in the Standard Works (i.e. Official Proclamation 1 & 2). I also do not doubt that sometime in the future that the Proclamation to the World will be in with our standard works -- it's not yet.

I agree there will be alot of things added to our standard works, like the proclamation to the world.

If the book was not Doctrinally significant why woudl it be a Required read for people who have commited serious sins? You cannot argue the point that it isn't this way because i know for a fact it is, and if you go ask your bishop or any general authority right now they will tell you the same thing that it IS a requirement. I have the packet myself. there are also other requirements to complete the repentance process as well.

Is there a reason you are quoting scripture to me?

Yes, because you believe that a prophet's words are not scripture.

 

[Katzpur]

And from the Church's CURRENT WEBSITE:

When holy men of God write or speak by the power of the Holy Ghost, their words "shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation" (D&C 68:4). The official, canonized scriptures of the Church, often called the standard works, are the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.

I know you like a good argument, MH, but in this case you are just making yourself look pretty darned uninformed. If that's what you're trying to do, you're on the right track. Keep it up.

 

[Bishka]

If the book was not Doctrinally significant why woudl it be a Required read for people who have commited serious sins? You cannot argue the point that it isn't this way because i know for a fact it is, and if you go ask your bishop or any general authority right now they will tell you the same thing that it IS a requirement.

It wasn't for me.

Yes, because you believe that a prophet's words are not scripture.

Now where did I say that? :sarcastic

 

[madhatter85]

And from the Church's CURRENT WEBSITE:

When holy men of God write or speak by the power of the Holy Ghost, their words "shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation" (D&C 68:4). The official, canonized scriptures of the Church, often called the standard works, are the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.

I know you like a good argument, MH, but in this case you are just making yourself look pretty darned uninformed. If that's what you're trying to do, you're on the right track. Keep it up.

I am not uninformed. You don't think for one minute that our prophet Spencer W. Kimball didn't pray for the spirit before while and after writing. editing, and publishing that book? Nay, He did. I'm sure he spoke with the power of the Holy Ghost in every word of that book. Your post in red actually HELPS my side of the debate.

 

[madhatter85]

It wasn't for me.

Then your sin was not nearly as serious as mine.

Now where did I say that? :sarcastic

everywhere.

 

[Bishka]

Then your sin was not nearly as serious as mine.

So you are playing 'mine is worse then yours'? You said for serious sins, I will not go to far into it, but no one I know that has committed a 'serious sin' has been asked to read that book. The bishop usually asks them to read the Book of Mormon -- wonder why that is.....

everywhere.

Point it out and I'll believe you.

 

[Aqualung]

It is doctrinally sound, but not doctrinally binding (i.e. canon).

I don't understand the difference. How can something be doctrinally sound and yet not be doctrinally binding?