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LDS Only: Obedience and Blessings

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
D&C 130:20-21 "There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundation of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated -- And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated."

I have a very close friend, who is in the middle of the ugliest divorce imaginable. She has been married for probably about 40 years, and has been physically and emotionally abusive for most of that time. Even though her husband has a good job, she has had to rely on Church welfare at various times, because of choices he has made. She grew up in a dysfunctional home with an alcoholic father and a mother who made her clean up after him when he came home drunk, late at night, and wet his bed. Both of her parents are now dead and she has no siblings. She has pretty much single-handedly raised five good children, including one daughter with severe heart problems. She suffers from arthritis which, at times, is almost debilitating.

I was raised by two LDS parents in a home that couldn't have been much more perfect. I have a sister to whom I'm very close. I married the most incredible man imaginable and had two beautiful children. I have a good job, as does my husband. We're not rolling in money by any means, but we are definitely "comfortable" financially. All of us are well. My father lived to be 82 and my mother is now 94. It is inconceivable to me how I could have been more greatly blessed.

Do you see all of your blessings as being a result of your obedience to God's commandments? How do you reconcile your blessings -- provided you consider yourself to be blessed -- with the seeming lack of blessings in the lives of people you believe to be every bit as obedient and faithful as you are?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
* bump*

Okay, I see four Mormons out there RIGHT NOW! I'm going to bed now, but when I get up tomorrow, I hope to see four posts on this thread!
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
Do you see all of your blessings as being a result of your obedience to God's commandments? How do you reconcile your blessings -- provided you consider yourself to be blessed -- with the seeming lack of blessings in the lives of people you believe to be every bit as obedient and faithful as you are?


I've come to the conclusion that when it comes to things of this world, God is mostly hands-off. The blessings are things to come.
 

madhatter85

Transhumanist
D&C 130:20-21 "There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundation of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated -- And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated."

I have a very close friend, who is in the middle of the ugliest divorce imaginable. She has been married for probably about 40 years, and has been physically and emotionally abusive for most of that time. Even though her husband has a good job, she has had to rely on Church welfare at various times, because of choices he has made. She grew up in a dysfunctional home with an alcoholic father and a mother who made her clean up after him when he came home drunk, late at night, and wet his bed. Both of her parents are now dead and she has no siblings. She has pretty much single-handedly raised five good children, including one daughter with severe heart problems. She suffers from arthritis which, at times, is almost debilitating.

I was raised by two LDS parents in a home that couldn't have been much more perfect. I have a sister to whom I'm very close. I married the most incredible man imaginable and had two beautiful children. I have a good job, as does my husband. We're not rolling in money by any means, but we are definitely "comfortable" financially. All of us are well. My father lived to be 82 and my mother is now 94. It is inconceivable to me how I could have been more greatly blessed.

Do you see all of your blessings as being a result of your obedience to God's commandments? How do you reconcile your blessings -- provided you consider yourself to be blessed -- with the seeming lack of blessings in the lives of people you believe to be every bit as obedient and faithful as you are?

We do not know the minds of epople and we are not to judge. we do not know who is truely obedient.

as for myself. When i am obedient, i see an overabundance of blessings, and when i am not, I see disaster happen in my life. I know in my life it is not enough to just go through the motions. you actually have to want to do things properly. to strive to be better than you are. to overcome adapt, learn and develop attributes. heaven knows i'm not perfect one bit, but i know that as long as i make the effort to strive to do that which is right and proper (for the right reasons) then i will be blessed.

people say "just because i pay my tithing doesn't mean i;m going to be able to pay my bills." when the fact is truely the opposite. It is not just enough to pay your tithing, but to do it with a glad heart, and to have faith that the Lord will take care of you and bless you with all of the things you need for your life.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
We do not know the minds of epople and we are not to judge. we do not know who is truely obedient.
I see. So are you saying that I've probably misjudged my friend and that she's probably really not all that obedient after all? Do you believe that all of her trials are a result of disobedience and that all my blessings are a result of obedience?
 

FFH

Veteran Member
I see. So are you saying that I've probably misjudged my friend and that she's probably really not all that obedient after all? Do you believe that all of her trials are a result of disobedience and that all my blessings are a result of obedience?
Another extremely important question that needs to be addressed. My wife and I used to discuss this subject quite a bit.

Scriptures are best referred to when addressing this topic. Let me get some together. I have to get back to work but will post later.
 

madhatter85

Transhumanist
I see. So are you saying that I've probably misjudged my friend and that she's probably really not all that obedient after all? Do you believe that all of her trials are a result of disobedience and that all my blessings are a result of obedience?


I have absolutely no idea. i cannot say either way. it is not my place. i just let you know my own personal experience.

there was a great movie quote from "Evan almighty" where morgan freeman (God) is talking to Baxter's wife. he said something to the effect of. When a family kneels to pray to become closer, does God just zap them with warm and fuzzy feelings? or does he give them opportunities to become closer? If someone asks for courage, Does god make them stronger? or does he give them opportunities to show thier courage?

Trials are here for our own benefit, to learn and to overcome. Failed trials seem to bring about more trials, until we learn something. If we do not learn something, do you think God will just give up on us? or do you think he will keep trying to get us to learn? Sometimes, our trials are not for us. sometimes they are for the benefit of others as well.

The point is it may or may not be a matter of faith and obedience, it could just be that she didn't learn what she was supposed to? or maybe she was meant to go trhough all those trials for the benefit of humbling someone else. Who knows? only God.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I've come to the conclusion that when it comes to things of this world, God is mostly hands-off. The blessings are things to come.
My wonderful feedback: I don't know what I think.

I do believe I've been blessed, and I have always tended to believe that everything good in my life comes to me from God. Literally everything. If, however, my blessings have come from "obedience to the laws upon which they are predicated," what specific laws did I obey to be blessed? Did my friend fail to obey those same laws.

I'm sure that the blessings to come are a big part of what this verse is talking about, but I still can't help but wonder about our circumstances here and now, and what the cause and effect really is.

As a related thought, every time I am faced with tragedy or even with a really difficult trial -- which, fortunately, nas not been often, my first thought is, "Why, God? What did I do wrong? What commandment did I not obey?" I know that's not supposed to be my reaction, but it is.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
My wonderful feedback: I don't know what I think.

I do believe I've been blessed, and I have always tended to believe that everything good in my life comes to me from God. Literally everything. If, however, my blessings have come from "obedience to the laws upon which they are predicated," what specific laws did I obey to be blessed? Did my friend fail to obey those same laws.

I'm sure that the blessings to come are a big part of what this verse is talking about, but I still can't help but wonder about our circumstances here and now, and what the cause and effect really is.

As a related thought, every time I am faced with tragedy or even with a really difficult trial -- which, fortunately, nas not been often, my first thought is, "Why, God? What did I do wrong? What commandment did I not obey?" I know that's not supposed to be my reaction, but it is.

Thanks for trying. I think I understand what you're saying, but I stand by my conclusion that what happens in this life is usually not dependant on our obedience ,or lack thereof, to the law.
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
Do you see all of your blessings as being a result of your obedience to God's commandments? How do you reconcile your blessings -- provided you consider yourself to be blessed -- with the seeming lack of blessings in the lives of people you believe to be every bit as obedient and faithful as you are?

It’s a good question. I do believe that obedience to the gospel brings blessings, but on some things there are no guarantees. If one is as worthy as worthy can be, there is no guarantee that:

One will ever find a spouse.
One’s spouse will always be faithful.
One’s child will not use drugs
One will not suffer mental illness such as severe depression or anxiety
One will not have gender confusion
One’s child will not die from a disease
One’s spouse will not die in an accident
One will not lose his job
One will not have severe financial setbacks
One’s loved one will not commit suicide
One’s children will remain faithful to the gospel
One will not be lonely.
An on and on

Many of these issues have either hit home or close to home for me. “For he (Father) maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth crain on the just and on the unjust.”

The key is to see the blessings in our life, in spite of, or even because of, our trials. Nephi said in the same verse that he “saw many afflictions” and yet was “highly favored of the Lord”.

Are there any blessings we are guaranteed? Yes, I think so. “And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.”

So, we’re promised the blessing of being supported in our challenges by Christ, who suffered for all of our infirmities and not just for our sins. We may learn more about God’s love and become much more aware of His answers to prayers because we have many afflictions.

Ultimately, I like the promise that if we’re faithful we can “enjoy the words of eternal life in this world, and eternal life in the world to come, even immortal glory.” We can always have hope in this life and eternal life in the next.
 

Starfish

Please no sarcasm
I just found this thread.

We can't speak for anyone but ourselves. My life has been chalk-full of blessings. Even though I lost both parents at an early age, the Lord has still been generous to me.

I believe I have avoided much adversity through obedience and this can be true for anyone. I saw this in my kid's lives. The ones who pushed the boundaries, had to endure more bumps in the road. Those that were obedient to the rules, endured fewer bumps. But they all had some bumps.

Many trials are the result of our own (or other's) mistakes. But many trials just happen. I also believe the Lord is accutely aware and involved in each of our lives. Sometimes he lets things happen because of the lessons we need to learn. Sometimes he intervenes, probably a lot more frequently than we realize. But whichever, he does what will be best for us, although we often can't see it at the time.

A lesson that took me many years to learn: Heavenly Father knows and sees the WHOLE picture. Much more than we can see. He knows what experiences each of us need to give us each the best advantage in the long run. We only see the little picture and some of those experiences don't look right from our perspective. We can't see what God sees. We just have to trust him and know that he loves us.
 

TrueBlue2

Member
I am convinced that some of the most valiant spirits from the pre-existence are out in the trenches, doing the work that most of us couldn't or wouldn't do. Some volunteered to break the chains of abuse that have existed in their families for generations; others agreed to enter the bodies of the physically handicapped or deformed. To break a generational pattern of abuse of any kind, and then to instill testimonies of Christ within our children, and to not falter in our own testimony in spite of the incredible adversity posed by our dysfunctional families, is something we all ought to admire.

On the other hand other valiant spirits were called to fill other important assignments. One of the most charmed lives in my life history seems to be that of our most recent prophet - President Gordon B. Hinckley. It seems everything fell into place for him.

But what we don't get is that God is no respecter of persons. The reward of the individual in the first example can be just as great as that of President Hinckley. The assignments were different. The degree of valiancy could be much closer than we know.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I am convinced that some of the most valiant spirits from the pre-existence are out in the trenches, doing the work that most of us couldn't or wouldn't do. Some volunteered to break the chains of abuse that have existed in their families for generations; others agreed to enter the bodies of the physically handicapped or deformed. To break a generational pattern of abuse of any kind, and then to instill testimonies of Christ within our children, and to not falter in our own testimony in spite of the incredible adversity posed by our dysfunctional families, is something we all ought to admire.
All I can say is that if you ever were to tell my friend that she volunteered for the hell her life has been, she would go ballistic!
 

Sola'lor

LDSUJC
I am convinced that some of the most valiant spirits from the pre-existence are out in the trenches, doing the work that most of us couldn't or wouldn't do. Some volunteered to break the chains of abuse that have existed in their families for generations; others agreed to enter the bodies of the physically handicapped or deformed. To break a generational pattern of abuse of any kind, and then to instill testimonies of Christ within our children, and to not falter in our own testimony in spite of the incredible adversity posed by our dysfunctional families, is something we all ought to admire.

I believe it's doctrine that mentally impaired people are those who actually cast Satan and His followers out of the Heaven. We have a couple mentally impaired young adults who are serving ward missions. They've been on their missions for quite a few years now. I believe that the chose that to be able to be on missions and help people for such a long time. They were actually featured in the New Era. You can see half of my Dad's face in one of the pictures too. Hehehe.

Personally I believe this issue is much to complex for us to actually know in this life what happened.
 

Starfish

Please no sarcasm
I believe it's doctrine that mentally impaired people are those who actually cast Satan and His followers out of the Heaven. We have a couple mentally impaired young adults who are serving ward missions. They've been on their missions for quite a few years now. I believe that the chose that to be able to be on missions and help people for such a long time. They were actually featured in the New Era. You can see half of my Dad's face in one of the pictures too. Hehehe.

Personally I believe this issue is much to complex for us to actually know in this life what happened.

Actually I don't think this is doctrine, but I really like it anyway. I have two handicapped grandchildren and I like to think they are especially valiant spirits that didn't need the kinds of tests that the rest of us need. But who knows.
I also like what TrueBlue said. I heard a story about breaking the chain of abuse in families in a talk and it really answered a lot. So comforting to those born into abusive homes.
Like I said, Heavenly Father really can see the big picture and we only have our little tiny view points.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I believe it's doctrine that mentally impaired people are those who actually cast Satan and His followers out of the Heaven.
You can't possibly be serious. :rolleyes: All I can say is that I'm glad this is a same-faith debate. If you had said this "in public," you'd have been chewed up and spit out. If you can find this anywhere in the official teachings of the Church, please let me know, and I'll gladly eat my words. Meanwhile, about all I can say is that if I were the parent of a mentally challenged child, it would be very comforting to believe this. But "comforting" and "true" are not necessarily the same thing.
 

TrueBlue2

Member
I used the word "volunteer" in my post which may be inaccurate. The better word would have been "assignment." Personally, I can see the Savior, or authorized representatives of the Savior, approaching certain individuals in the spirit world, and asking them if they would accept the assignment of being born into a home that was less than ideal, in order to break the chains of abuse. Not doctrine of course. :)
 
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