Learned and Adapted Behaviors

[Dan From Smithville]

So you are saying that a lion would rather starve to death, than eat anything other than vegetation.
If that's what you believe...


A true experiment would be to have lions starving, with nothing but that fruit or whatever else around... Just make sure the man isn't around... no vegetation either.
Then see what happens.


I always believed in evolution / adaptation.
Word games are what evolutionist play.
All Christians, Muslims, etc. believe in change - another word for evolution. We evolve every day.
I don't believe in the theory of evolution.
There is a difference, I hope you know.

So change in populations of living things over time is ok. Just don't call the explanation the theory of evolution and we're all good?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Speak for yourself.
You don't know me.
I knew many many years ago, that hippos killed crocodiles... which are terrified of them. Lol
I never assumed they ate meat, or did not.
Your admittance of updated knowledge is not mine.


That's not the point.


No comparrison there. Eating is not the same as a wolf becoming a sheep.

I would say that eating is entirely different than any animal suddenly transforming into another. One is the normal ingestion of food and the other is magic.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It is widely believed that a carnivore, such as a lion, cannot become a herbivore. I argue strongly against that belief.

You can argue all you want. You still can't turn a lion into an herbivore. Cats HAVE to have meat to live.

 

[nPeace]

Hey @nPeace
Just admit if you dont know basic lion biology. Ive been reading this thread it's a train wreck. You say sometimes scientists dont know stuff. Im sure there's stuff you dont know. In my opinion it's better to admit if you dont know something and it seems this thread shows how little you know about this topic

Are you certain you are not just being biased? I'm not convinced you aren't, and here is why.
You say all sorts of things are possible.

You believe this happened. No problem.
From this...

to this...

You believe this. No problem.
Bugs across globe are evolving to eat plastic, study finds

You use this as a "Hurray! Evolution!".
Scientists Have Discovered a Bacteria That's Evolved to Eat Plastic

Then you argue against lions evolving to eat vegetation... arguing that they would not be lions if that happened... or it just can't happen.

So, I propose that either you don't believe evolution takes place, or you are just biased... not to mention, the worst kind.
So which do you say it is?

Also, rather than they argue and say it can't happen, would it not be better to explain why it cannot happen?
Since you believe this is about lion anatomy... which evidently it isn't, perhaps you can start, by explaining to me, what's so different about the lion's anatomy, than the above, to prevent it changing.

 

[nPeace]

You're misunderstanding, or we're having two different conversations.

I realize biological evolution has entered into this conversation from other posters, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about processes operating within a single organism of a species; rapid changes in an individual organism that would somehow allow a carnivore to survive off grass. I explained that this is not how it works, on the individual and organismal level.

The individual and organismal level is not the level at which evolution operates. Evolution is change in entire populations of organisms over time.

Who is talking about one lion? Certainly not me.
So the change can happen then. Thank you.
That's all I am saying

 

[nPeace]

You said "Can rapid changes take place in the body". Unless you have some new fangled version of rapid, it is normally understand that such change in a body would be well within the lifetime of whatever organism being referred too. In this case, lions.

You gave a year for your "guy" whatever that meant. If human, lion or hippo, it would also be in their lifetimes.

Now can you answer my question?

How does changes begin to occur? Where does it start... in the ancestor, or the offspring?

 

[nPeace]

That depends on what you mean by believe. Scientists have beliefs too as well as knowledge. Scientists don't know everything. Otherwise, we wouldn't need science. But I do believe that most know more than some examples I can think of.

Not knowing everything doesn't mean they don't have subject matter expertise in the subjects they study.

So since scientists do not know everything, why do you believe that everything they say they believe, must be true... or don't you believe that?

Do you think you know more than scientists that study the things you speculate on?

Loaded question. Can you be more specific. What things do I speculate on?

 

[nPeace]

So you are claiming that a lion can change from a carnivore to a herbivore when starved and offered only fruit as a food source within the lifetime of the lion.

What was all the hubbub about before? I actually understood what you were claiming. You should be happy about that.

It isn't going to happen, but I understand the claim.

I know it is part of my theory. At least the practice of it.

Evolution would not occur without variation that was heritable. Normally this is done by procreation where I'm from.

So where do the change occur - in the inheritor? How does it get there?

 

[nPeace]

Hormones and enzymes are not the same thing.

Duh.

 

[nPeace]

So change in populations of living things over time is ok. Just don't call the explanation the theory of evolution and we're all good?

So, as long as the Bible does not say what you don't believe, you are good with those parts.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

How does changes begin to occur? Where does it start... in the ancestor, or the offspring?

I don't know. You haven't described what you mean by "rapid change" in any detail. It's your use of the term, you tell me.

Change within the lifespan of an individual would be considerably more rapid than change between generations.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

So, as long as the Bible does not say what you don't believe, you are good with those parts.

You'll have to expand on what you mean here. Do you consider the Bible to be a science book that explains evolution or discusses the change in species over time?

 

[VoidCat]

Are you certain you are not just being biased? I'm not convinced you aren't, and here is why.
You say all sorts of things are possible.

You believe this happened. No problem.
From this...

to this...

You believe this. No problem.
Bugs across globe are evolving to eat plastic, study finds

You use this as a "Hurray! Evolution!".
Scientists Have Discovered a Bacteria That's Evolved to Eat Plastic

Then you argue against lions evolving to eat vegetation... arguing that they would not be lions if that happened... or it just can't happen.

So, I propose that either you don't believe evolution takes place, or you are just biased... not to mention, the worst kind.
So which do you say it is?

Also, rather than they argue and say it can't happen, would it not be better to explain why it cannot happen?
Since you believe this is about lion anatomy... which evidently it isn't, perhaps you can start, by explaining to me, what's so different about the lion's anatomy, than the above, to prevent it changing.

I have never mentioned my views on evolution on here so you are making a bunch of leaps here on my views. I do however believe in the theory of evolution. But you seem to have a gross misunderstanding of how it works and im not the one qualified to tell you as I'm not as well versed on the topic as many other rfers are. So imma back out.

 

[nPeace]

I would say that eating is entirely different than any animal suddenly transforming into another. One is the normal ingestion of food and the other is magic.

Suddenly transforming? What do you mean? How sudden is sudden?
Do you mean like this?

Or is that not sudden enough?
I'm not sure of how sudden you think nPeace had in mind. So you'll need to clarify.

 

[Secret Chief]

Cats are obligate carnivores.

Domestic cats sometimes eat a small amount of grass, usually to assist with vomiting a fur ball.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Are you certain you are not just being biased? I'm not convinced you aren't, and here is why.
You say all sorts of things are possible.

You believe this happened. No problem.
From this...

to this...

You believe this. No problem.
Bugs across globe are evolving to eat plastic, study finds

You use this as a "Hurray! Evolution!".
Scientists Have Discovered a Bacteria That's Evolved to Eat Plastic

Then you argue against lions evolving to eat vegetation... arguing that they would not be lions if that happened... or it just can't happen.

So, I propose that either you don't believe evolution takes place, or you are just biased... not to mention, the worst kind.
So which do you say it is?

Also, rather than they argue and say it can't happen, would it not be better to explain why it cannot happen?
Since you believe this is about lion anatomy... which evidently it isn't, perhaps you can start, by explaining to me, what's so different about the lion's anatomy, than the above, to prevent it changing.

Are you sure that you aren't biased? Are you sure you fully understand the theory of evolution?

Interesting. So you advocate evolution of microorganisms. Outstanding.

I don't think whales evolved from contemporary and concurrently existing species. I know the theory doesn't say that.

What is says is what you seem to be advocating. Changes over time.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Suddenly transforming? What do you mean? How sudden is sudden?
Do you mean like this?

Or is that not sudden enough?
I'm not sure of how sudden you think nPeace had in mind. So you'll need to clarify.

This isn't what you said. You compared a commonly observed phenomenon of eating to magical transformation of one living thing into another.

What you show here isn't an example of that magical transformation.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Duh.

So you say you know that. I didn't get that from what you wrote. The way you wrote indicated that you seemed to think they were interchangeable terms.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

So since scientists do not know everything, why do you believe that everything they say they believe, must be true... or don't you believe that?

I don't know what they have said about their beliefs. I know what I have read about science. And I have not stated that I believe everything they say is true. But I can read what science deniers say and recognize that much of it is conspiracy theory, logical fallacy, misinterpretation, misinformation, bias and nonsense.

Loaded question. Can you be more specific. What things do I speculate on?

Do you think that you know more about science than scientists?

This thread is about your speculation that trophic shifts can occur rapidly and obligate predators can magically transform into herbivores within the lifetime of the individual. Are you not even reading your own posts?

 

[nPeace]

I have never mentioned my views on evolution on here so you are making a bunch of leaps here on my views.

I don't think so.

Just admit if you dont know basic lion biology. Ive been reading this thread it's a train wreck. You say sometimes scientists dont know stuff. Im sure there's stuff you dont know. In my opinion it's better to admit if you dont know something and it seems this thread shows how little you know about this topic

I do however believe in the theory of evolution. But you seem to have a gross misunderstanding of how it works and im not the one qualified to tell you as I'm not as well versed on the topic as many other rfers are. So imma back out.

Why did you jump in in the first place, if you know little or nothing about the subject, and accuse someone of ignorance?
If you aren't versed enough to educate an ignorant person, something is wrong with your accusations... there aren't accurate.
What do you know about me?