Learning about people’s faith & what they believe in, how they think about it & try to practice it

[osgart]

Faith is confidence and trust in what you know to be true, and/or what is justified in believing. If I didn't have faith like that I wouldn't be able to move.

I have faith in the values and virtues. There's about 100 positive character traits that I can name. I also have faith in my own reason and how I logic. The more I learn the more I realize the vastness of the unknown, and the extraordinary amount of valid human knowledge that is out there that I know not of.

I believe that a person must be able to govern themselves or face grim reality.

My beliefs in what happens after death have no bearing on my practices of faith. I have faith in my objective morality. It's discoverable!

I reason and make judgments from general to specific matters. Life is important while your alive be it finite, or of infinite duration. If life is finite, it's still worth living, and is no less important. I've always tried to get the biggest picture. Get the gestalt one of my high school teachers used to say.

I wasted a lot of time on religion in the past. Now I am spiritual but not religious. Religion is a mixed bag and 90% rubbish. It's a poor substitute for wisdom.

My spiritual sense enables me to be objective and rule myself according to qualities of virtues that govern my emotions.

 

[Niatero]

Faith is confidence and trust in what you know to be true, and/or what is justified in believing. If I didn't have faith like that I wouldn't be able to move.

I have faith in the values and virtues. There's about 100 positive character traits that I can name. I also have faith in my own reason and how I logic. The more I learn the more I realize the vastness of the unknown, and the extraordinary amount of valid human knowledge that is out there that I know not of.

I believe that a person must be able to govern themselves or face grim reality.

My beliefs in what happens after death have no bearing on my practices of faith. I have faith in my objective morality. It's discoverable!

I reason and make judgments from general to specific matters. Life is important while your alive be it finite, or of infinite duration. If life is finite, it's still worth living, and is no less important. I've always tried to get the biggest picture. Get the gestalt one of my high school teachers used to say.

I wasted a lot of time on religion in the past. Now I am spiritual but not religious. Religion is a mixed bag and 90% rubbish. It's a poor substitute for wisdom.

My spiritual sense enables me to be objective and rule myself according to qualities of virtues that govern my emotions.

Is there anything else that you can say about your way of life, along with having faith in values and virtues, and in your own reason and logic? Also, could you tell me some ways that you try to improve how you practice those?

 

[Psalm23]

Can you think of anything else to tell me about your faith, how you think about it and how you practice it?

I used to have a practice where I saluted the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I have since changed this practice to a practice of bowing down before my Lord Jesus and submitting myself to Him. My pastor taught us to pray and ask to be filled with the Holy Spirit and then say that I receive the filling of the Spirit by faith. I have been following my pastor's advice. I recently saluted and blessed my lead pastor and pastoral team in the name of my Lord Jesus. It was such a blessing for me to do that for them. I'm planning to join this church soon and really look forward to it. I recently got baptized again on 4/7/2024. I was excited to be baptized and thankful to have had it done. I am thankful for this church and for my pastors.

 

[Niatero]

I used to have a practice where I saluted the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I have since changed this practice to a practice of bowing down before my Lord Jesus and submitting myself to Him. My pastor taught us to pray and ask to be filled with the Holy Spirit and then say that I receive the filling of the Spirit by faith. I have been following my pastor's advice. I recently saluted and blessed my lead pastor and pastoral team in the name of my Lord Jesus. It was such a blessing for me to do that for them. I'm planning to join this church soon and really look forward to it. I recently got baptized again on 4/7/2024. I was excited to be baptized and thankful to have had it done. I am thankful for this church and for my pastors.

I like it that your emphasis is on Him as your Lord, and how you can serve Him, not only how He can serve you. Earlier you said that you are encouraged by Him to love one another. What are some examples of how a person might do that, in every part of their life? Now I'm thinking of Him saying that right after He washed the feet of His twelve. I don't take that literally, although it might be sometimes. It's about our attitude towards others, thinking of ourselves as their lowliest servants. Sadly, I'm a long, long way from that most of the time.

 

[idea]

Do you have any ideas about why you want to live that way, what moves or motivates you to live that way?

Just standard life progression from dependent to independent to interdependent.... faith in yourself - your higher brain's capacity to figure it out (not guess, use superstition) develops with experience.

William G. Perry (psychologist) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Summary of Position	Basic Example
The authorities know	e.g. "the tutor knows what is right and wrong"
The true authorities are right, the others are frauds	e.g. "my tutor doesn't know what is right and wrong but others do"
There are some uncertainties and the authorities are working on them to find the truth	e.g. "my tutors don't know, but somebody out there is trying to find out"
(a) Everyone has right to their own opinion (b) The authorities don't want the right answers. They want us to think in a certain way	e.g. "different tutors think different things" e.g. "there is an answer that the tutors want and we have to find it"
Everything is relative but not equally valid	e.g. "there are no right and wrong answers, it depends on the situation, but some answers might be better than others"
You have to make your own decisions	e.g. "what is important is not what the tutor thinks but what I think"
First commitment	e.g. "for this particular topic I think that...."
Several Commitments	e.g. "for these topics I think that...."
Believe own values, respect others, be ready to learn	e.g. "I know what I believe in and what I think is valid, others may think differently and I'm prepared to reconsider my views"

 

[Spice]

You have to make your own decisions

e.g. "what is important is not what the tutor thinks but what I think"

Love it!!!

 

[idea]

Love it!!!

What's important is not what the pope thinks, or priest thinks, or Rabbia or Dali Lami thinks

 

[Aupmanyav]

Thank you. Can you think of any good questions for me to ask, about your way of life?

Ask about non-duality (how animals including humans are not different from non-living substances).
Ask about what to be afraid of if not God and his judgment?
Ask why I do not believe in scriptures? There are hundreds of questions that you can ask me.

But most importantly living with SPICES works -- for me, my family, and my community.

^^^ That is 'dharma'.

 

[Niatero]

Ask about non-duality (how animals including humans are not different from non-living substances).
Ask about what to be afraid of if not God and his judgment?
Ask why I do not believe in scriptures? There are hundreds of questions that you can ask me.

How are animals including humans not different from non-living substances?

 

[Aupmanyav]

How are animals including humans not different from non-living substances?

What are we composed of - Atoms. Is the carbon atom is coal is different from the carbon atom in my body?

 

[Psalm23]

I like it that your emphasis is on Him as your Lord, and how you can serve Him, not only how He can serve you. Earlier you said that you are encouraged by Him to love one another. What are some examples of how a person might do that, in every part of their life? Now I'm thinking of Him saying that right after He washed the feet of His twelve. I don't take that literally, although it might be sometimes. It's about our attitude towards others, thinking of ourselves as their lowliest servants. Sadly, I'm a long, long way from that most of the time.

I believe that when Jesus washed the disciples feet , He also washed the feet of Judas Iscariot who betrayed Him. I am called to not only love people who love me but to love people who don't love me back and even love them if someone hates. Christians are called to bless and not to curse others. In my service to Jesus I would like to work on getting my finances in order and helping out more in the house.

I remember waking up one time thinking about how Jesus said that people put new wine into new wineskins and not old wineskins.
‭This is a passage here.

‭Luke 5:37-38 NKJV‬
[37] And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; or else the new wine will burst the wineskins and be spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined. [38] But new wine must be put into new wineskins, and both are preserved.

Luke 5:37-38 And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; or else the new wine will burst the wineskins and be spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined. But new wine must be put into new wineskins, and both are p | New King James Version (NKJV) | Do

And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; or else the new wine will burst the wineskins and be spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined. But new wine must be put into new wineskins, and both are p

bible.com

I thought about this parable and thought how Jesus is to revolutionize my life. I don't see where I can fit Him into my current lifestyle but I need to have Jesus take full reign and take the wheel of my heart and life. This is what I got from the passage about the wineskins.

 

[Spice]

What's important is not what the pope thinks, or priest thinks, or Rabbia or Dali Lami thinks

Amen and Hallelujah. LOL
Follow NO man, for only one has achieved perfection and he has gone to the Father. "...learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest..." Matt 11:29
"If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives to all generously and without reproach..." Jam 1:5

 

[Niatero]

I believe that when Jesus washed the disciples feet ,He also washed the feet of Judas Iscariot who betrayed Him.

Yes, the twelve, all of them.

I am called to not only love people who love me but to love people who don't love me back and even love them if someone hates. Christians are called to bless and not to curse others. In my service to Jesus

I feel that way too.

I remember waking up one time thinking about how Jesus said that people put new wine into new wineskins and not old wineskins.
‭This is a passage here.

‭Luke 5:37-38 NKJV‬
[37] And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; or else the new wine will burst the wineskins and be spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined. [38] But new wine must be put into new wineskins, and both are preserved.

Luke 5:37-38 And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; or else the new wine will burst the wineskins and be spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined. But new wine must be put into new wineskins, and both are p | New King James Version (NKJV) | Do

And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; or else the new wine will burst the wineskins and be spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined. But new wine must be put into new wineskins, and both are p

bible.com

I thought about this parable and thought how Jesus is to revolutionize my life. I don't see where I can fit Him into my current lifestyle but I need to have Jesus take full reign and take the wheel of my heart and life. This is what I got from the passage about the wineskins.

(edited) Please ignore all this below! I posted it in a moment of weakness. Sorry! (end edit)

I'm wondering if you see any need for any effort from you, in conscious efforts to improve your attitudes and behavior. Not because He needs your help to revolutionize your life, but that it will be better for you if you make some efforts of your own? Don't you see Him saying that anywhere in the scriptures? It's not to argue about it, I'm just wondering.

(later) I do have some thoughts about it that I'd like to discuss with you, but not here where it's just to learn about people's ways of thinking about their faith and practicing it.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What are we composed of - Atoms. Is the carbon atom is coal is different from the carbon atom in my body?

Reduce to the extent possible to get at the truth.

"That subtle essence which you do not perceive in a tiny Nyagrodha (banyan) seed grows into the great Nyagrodha tree. Similarly, That which is the subtle essence of all, in That all that exists has its Being. That is the Truth. That is the Self. That Thou art (Tat twam asi)." Chandogya Upanishad

 

[Niatero]

Thank you. Can you think of any good questions for me to ask, about your way of life?

Ask about non-duality (how animals including humans are not different from non-living substances).
Ask about what to be afraid of if not God and his judgment?
Ask why I do not believe in scriptures? There are hundreds of questions that you can ask me.

^^^ That is 'dharma'.

What is there to be afraid of if not God and his judgment?

 

[idea]

Amen and Hallelujah. LOL
Follow NO man, for only one has achieved perfection and he has gone to the Father. "...learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest..." Matt 11:29
"If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives to all generously and without reproach..." Jam 1:5

If you like stages, here is another for you that might explain using more than the Bible. Plagiarism vs responsible honest research my friend, research uses more than one reference

James W. Fowler - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

• Stage 0 – "Primal or Undifferentiated" faith (birth to 2 years), is characterized by an early learning of the safety of their environment (i.e. warm, safe and secure vs. hurt, neglect and abuse). If consistent nurture is experienced, one will develop a sense of trust and safety about the universe and the divine. Conversely, negative experiences will cause one to develop distrust about the universe and the divine. Transition to the next stage begins with integration of thought and language which facilitates the use of symbols in speech and play.
• Stage 1 – "Intuitive-Projective" faith (ages of three to seven), is characterized by the psyche's unprotected exposure to the Unconscious, and marked by a relative fluidity of thought patterns.[8] Religion is learned mainly through experiences, stories, images, and the people that one comes in contact with.
• Stage 2 – "Mythic-Literal" faith (mostly in school children), is characterized by persons have a strong belief in the justice and reciprocity of the universe, and their deities are almost always anthropomorphic. During this time metaphors and symbolic language are often misunderstood and are taken literally.
• Stage 3 – "Synthetic-Conventional" faith (arising in adolescence; aged 12 to adulthood), is characterized by conformity to authority and the religious development of a personal identity. Any conflicts with one's beliefs are ignored at this stage due to the fear of threat from inconsistencies.
• Stage 4 – "Individuative-Reflective" faith (usually mid-twenties to late thirties), is a stage of angst and struggle. The individual takes personal responsibility for his or her beliefs and feelings. As one is able to reflect on one's own beliefs, there is an openness to a new complexity of faith, but this also increases the awareness of conflicts in one's belief.
• Stage 5 – "Conjunctive" faith (mid-life crisis), acknowledges paradox and transcendence relating reality behind the symbols of inherited systems. The individual resolves conflicts from previous stages by a complex understanding of a multidimensional, interdependent "truth" that cannot be explained by any particular statement.
• Stage 6 – "Universalizing" faith. The individual would treat any person with compassion as he or she views people as from a universal community, and should be treated with universal principles of love and justice.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What is there to be afraid of if not God and his judgment?

Since my belief does not accept God or his judgment (along with all the things that I mentioned previously), there is nothing at all to be afraid of.
So, I live without any fear observing my 'dharma' (duties). Life is simple, why should I make it complicated?

 

[Psalm23]

Yes, the twelve, all of them.

I feel that way too.

(edited) Please ignore all this below! I posted it in a moment of weakness. Sorry! (end edit)

I'm wondering if you see any need for any effort from you, in conscious efforts to improve your attitudes and behavior. Not because He needs your help to revolutionize your life, but that it will be better for you if you make some efforts of your own? Don't you see Him saying that anywhere in the scriptures? It's not to argue about it, I'm just wondering.

(later) I do have some thoughts about it that I'd like to discuss with you, but not here where it's just to learn about people's ways of thinking about their faith and practicing it.

Sure , I'm open to discussion.

 

[Niatero]

Sure , I'm open to discussion.

I started a thread about it in the Interfaith forum: Importance and value of personal efforts for spiritual growth after
recognizing and accepting Jesus as Lord

 

[Spice]

If you like stages, here is another for you that might explain using more than the Bible. Plagiarism vs responsible honest research my friend, research uses more than one reference

James W. Fowler - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

• Stage 0 – "Primal or Undifferentiated" faith (birth to 2 years), is characterized by an early learning of the safety of their environment (i.e. warm, safe and secure vs. hurt, neglect and abuse). If consistent nurture is experienced, one will develop a sense of trust and safety about the universe and the divine. Conversely, negative experiences will cause one to develop distrust about the universe and the divine. Transition to the next stage begins with integration of thought and language which facilitates the use of symbols in speech and play.
• Stage 1 – "Intuitive-Projective" faith (ages of three to seven), is characterized by the psyche's unprotected exposure to the Unconscious, and marked by a relative fluidity of thought patterns.[8] Religion is learned mainly through experiences, stories, images, and the people that one comes in contact with.
• Stage 2 – "Mythic-Literal" faith (mostly in school children), is characterized by persons have a strong belief in the justice and reciprocity of the universe, and their deities are almost always anthropomorphic. During this time metaphors and symbolic language are often misunderstood and are taken literally.
• Stage 3 – "Synthetic-Conventional" faith (arising in adolescence; aged 12 to adulthood), is characterized by conformity to authority and the religious development of a personal identity. Any conflicts with one's beliefs are ignored at this stage due to the fear of threat from inconsistencies.
• Stage 4 – "Individuative-Reflective" faith (usually mid-twenties to late thirties), is a stage of angst and struggle. The individual takes personal responsibility for his or her beliefs and feelings. As one is able to reflect on one's own beliefs, there is an openness to a new complexity of faith, but this also increases the awareness of conflicts in one's belief.
• Stage 5 – "Conjunctive" faith (mid-life crisis), acknowledges paradox and transcendence relating reality behind the symbols of inherited systems. The individual resolves conflicts from previous stages by a complex understanding of a multidimensional, interdependent "truth" that cannot be explained by any particular statement.
• Stage 6 – "Universalizing" faith. The individual would treat any person with compassion as he or she views people as from a universal community, and should be treated with universal principles of love and justice.

It's a shame Stage 6 can't hit more much younger.