Learning Sanskrit?

[Kapalika]

I'm thinking I would gain a lot by learning to both read and speak Sanskrit, at least semi-fluently. There are a number of religious texts that I'd love to be able to read and understand and speak it in the language it's written in, not just rely on the translation of an author.

The most I know is a few words and variations of them and their root meanings I've picked up overtime, as well as the mantras I use. But I'm kind of at a loss of where to start other than a few websites I found googling.

For those who have learned or are learning the language (particularly those who's first language is English), is there anything you can tell me about the process or the experience and what you got out of it? Did it help you understand any of the texts better? Is there any advice or insight you could give me as I start out?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I will try to give you some links. Just one thing do not try to be a pundit. It takes a long time. A working idea of Sanskrit is fair enough.

 

[Kapalika]

I will try to give you some links. Just one thing do not try to be a pundit. It takes a long time. A working idea of Sanskrit is fair enough.

I wouldn't presume to be an expert of anything religious, but merely possessing a general knowledge on a few topics. I apologize if I've ever come off as a pundit as that's not ever been my intention. Perhaps I've not expressed this before, and I don't mean this in a bad way, but I've often felt nervous about posting in the Hindu DIR because of what I've perceived as gaps of knowledge on my part.

What I'm trying to say is, I have a lot of respect for you and many other posters here. I really don't ever intend any disrespect and I'm always trying to be conscientious of having an authentic understanding. If I've in the past been too confident of something that I've said that was wrong I sincerely apologize.

 

[Aupmanyav]

You did not do anything of the sort. No reason to be nervous. Post whatever comes to your mind. If we want to add to that we will according to our individual knowledge and belief. Most of us too are not pundits. You are among your own people. What I am saying is that we should not over-reach. First, the basic knowledge and then let us see wherever we land up. Take heart.

 

[Ingledsva]

I'm thinking I would gain a lot by learning to both read and speak Sanskrit, at least semi-fluently. There are a number of religious texts that I'd love to be able to read and understand and speak it in the language it's written in, not just rely on the translation of an author.

The most I know is a few words and variations of them and their root meanings I've picked up overtime, as well as the mantras I use. But I'm kind of at a loss of where to start other than a few websites I found googling.

For those who have learned or are learning the language (particularly those who's first language is English), is there anything you can tell me about the process or the experience and what you got out of it? Did it help you understand any of the texts better? Is there any advice or insight you could give me as I start out?

Hello.

Try your local Library. I know. It sounds weird, but they have lots of language sets.

They also have inter-library loan programs. So, if the one near you doesn't have Sanskrit, they can check and find one that does have it, and borrow it for you, for free.

I grew up in a Library. My Grandmother was the Librarian.

*

 

[निताइ dasa]

Jaya Nitai!

Pranam.

Here is a link of resources and books online:

Thread for links for textbooks and online courses to learn Sanskrit • r/sanskrit

Um, for an english speaker I would recommend number 3. Its a really nice intro to sanskrit. I'm learning from number 8.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think its important to hear it said correctly. In Sanskrit, sound itself is very important. There is nothing quite so embarrassing as someone reciting mangled Sanskrit. So use an on-line 'how to pronounce' guide.

 

[Jainarayan]

Is there any advice or insight you could give me as I start out?

There is a free Sanskrit app for iPhone. Just search Google for Sanskrit app and it's one of the first ones that comes up.

The Sanskrit grammar article at Wikipedia is actually quite good. There are charts of nominal, adjective and demonstrative inflections and declensions. That is my go-to as a cheat sheet. I've copied them into Excel for ready reference.

If you can understand how inflected languages like Latin, Greek, Russian, Sanskrit, and others work you can easily pick up understanding how the language works. The vocabulary is something different altogether, as always.

I wants counted something like 160 ways to inflect one particular noun and all its cases and numbers and genders but most people Will never use all of those so I'm just simply don't make sense, but they are a part of the inflectional system.

For example you would not decline or inflect the name Krishna in dual or plural, it just wouldn't make sense unless you were using Krishna as an adjective for dark or attractive which is what it means.

Once you learn some basics it really is pretty easy to get the gist of what a particular verse or sloka translates into English as.

However, brother Vinaya car (that's what I get when pronouncing Anaya car into the microphone because I'm too lazy to type) speaks truthfully about pronunciation for Vedic chant or using Sanskrit in a religious context.

But in spoken Sanskrit it's also important for example, mala (muh-luh) with short a means garbage or dirt. Maa-laa with long a is the prayer beads. I chant japa on a maa-laa, not on dirt or garbage.

Sanskrit is actually a very beautiful, poetic and musical language with an almost completely free word order because of the inflections. That's also a main reason for its rhythmic qualities and the several types of meters used in texts like the Vedas Bhagavad Gita and the others.

For example, the song Govinda's lyrics are govindam adipurusham tam aham bhajāmi. It is all in the accusative because everything is the direct object of the verb bhajāmi, "I worship". Its literal translation is Govinda original primeval that Lord I worship. Because "I worship Govinda that original primeval Lord" hurts the music and the way Sanskrit works the lyrics of the song are perfectly grammatically correct.

OK, so that's as pedantic as I should get for today.

 

[तत्त्वप्रह्व]

Namaste,
May your intent to learn saṁkṛtaṁ strengthen! I would recommend not getting into the grammatical approach of learning viz., learning by starting with various lakāras (~tenses) and inflections but by starting to speak and pick up the various applications as you learn. I agree with vinayaka ji that pronunciation is where one would begin. If you are in the USA i would recommend: संस्कृतभारती their approach is perhaps best suited for learning the language naturally (i.e., the way one would have learnt the mother tongue).

श्रीभारतीशकृष्णार्पणमस्तु ।

 

[Kapalika]

I've started to take the time to dip my toes in the water so to speak by trying to learn the Sanskrit letters of words I'm familiar with in writing (meaning I've never heard them spoken before) and figuring out their pronunciation based off of that while also referring to some sources to double check I got it right, as well as learning the letters in some Mantras I already know the pronunciation of. I figured trying to get familiar with the Sanskrit alphabet in this way would be a good primer since I'm kind of a slow learner who gets lost easily if I don't have anything I can use to branch into it from a previous understanding. I'm hoping to make studying Sanskrit part of my daily life by making it be seen as a break between some other associated good habits I'm working on developing.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Excellent. Keep us informed of your progress and the new discoveries that you make.

 

[Kapalika]

An update;

I've neglected studying (but hope to pick it back up very soon). Since I always look for people chanting mantras (knowing how important pronunciation is for that!) I've yet to find me saying any mantras incorrectly. However in the last month I have caught some small mistakes for the pronunciation of a few Sanskrit terms, one of which was kind of embarrassing as it was one of my favorite words! Better I know now, before anyone who knew better caught me making it

 

[Aupmanyav]

Nice, Mandi.

 

[Liu]

Sanskrit is among the languages I have started learning, although not my focus currently. Since I want to learn a bit more about Shaivism, that might change, though.

Anyway, noticing this thread lead me to a question. Devanagari script doesn't show where a word is stressed, and that would seem a very important part of pronouncing for example mantras correctly, even more important than managing to get the aspiration right. But the textbooks I used don't seem to put any importance on it, and I think even most dictionaries don't mark it.

I don't want to learn vocabulary with a wrong word stress in mind. Any suggestions? Or recommendations for courses/books that include audio or at least mark the stress in the vocab lists so I wouldn't have to look it up for every word (or even word form, in the case of those changing stress when inflected)?

 

[Jainarayan]

Sanskrit is among the languages I have started learning, although not my focus currently. Since I want to learn a bit more about Shaivism, that might change, though.

Anyway, noticing this thread lead me to a question. Devanagari script doesn't show where a word is stressed, and that would seem a very important part of pronouncing for example mantras correctly, even more important than managing to get the aspiration right. But the textbooks I used don't seem to put any importance on it, and I think even most dictionaries don't mark it.

I don't want to learn vocabulary with a wrong word stress in mind. Any suggestions? Or recommendations for courses/books that include audio or at least mark the stress in the vocab lists so I wouldn't have to look it up for every word (or even word form, in the case of those changing stress when inflected)?

In my understanding, Sanskrit accents generally fall on the antepenultimate syllable, i.e. 3rd from last. If there are only two syllables in a word, the first is accented. In the word sanātana (as in Sanātana Dharma, the proper name for Hinduism), we have the tricky penultimate syllable also being a long vowel. The pronunciation would be sun-aa-tun-uh. The name Pārvatī is Paar-vuh-tee. But there are exceptions. This might be of some help. See page 9. http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/sk-pron/skpro_01.pdf

 

[Liu]

Thanks! But, from what I remember from Sanskrit classes I visited at university (and from what I know about Indo-European word stress and how this normally gets figured out from Sanskrit word stress), word stress is more or less completely arbitrary in all Sanskrit words except for verbs (verbs just being stressed on the earliest syllable possible) and needs to be learned for each word on its own.

I now looked in the textbook we used there and there it mentions that this stress accent rule you linked is nothing but bull**** and a modern invention and that the Vedic accent was also used in Classic times.
I can take a look what exactly my other textbooks have to say on this, but I doubt it'll differ much.
So I'm having a hard time believing that it's that easy.

 

[Jainarayan]

I now looked in the textbook we used there

Whitney's Sanskrit Grammar?

The best way to learn is to hear someone speaking and/or chanting.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Anyway, noticing this thread lead me to a question. Devanagari script doesn't show where a word is stressed, and that would seem a very important part of pronouncing for example mantras correctly, even more important than managing to get the aspiration right. But the textbooks I used don't seem to put any importance on it, and I think even most dictionaries don't mark it.

I don't want to learn vocabulary with a wrong word stress in mind. Any suggestions? Or recommendations for courses/books that include audio or at least mark the stress in the vocab lists so I wouldn't have to look it up for every word (or even word form, in the case of those changing stress when inflected)?

Sanskrit grammar - Wikipedia

"The long vowels are pronounced twice as long as their short counterparts. Also, there exists a third, extra-long length for most vowels. This lengthening is called pluti; the lengthened vowels, called pluta, are used in various cases, but particularly in the vocative. The pluti is not accepted by all grammarians."
"Pluta vowels are recorded a total of 3 times in the Rigveda and 15 times in the Atharvaveda, typically in cases of questioning and particularly where two options are being compared."
"The pluti attained the peak of their popularity in the Brahmana period of late Vedic Sanskrit (roughly 8th century BC), with some 40 instances in the Shatapatha Brahmana alone.

May not be accepted by many grammarians, but 'pluti' is an important part of correct pronunciation, normally indicated by s. You will encounter it only rarely. Pluti - Wikipedia

The sound for the word 'Om' is 'pluta'.
"It is sometimes also written ओ३म् (o̿m [õːːm]), notably by Arya Samaj, where ३ (i.e., the digit "3") is pluta ("three times as long"), indicating a length of three morae (that is, the time it takes to say three syllables) - an overlong nasalised close-mid back rounded vowel."

तिरश्चीनो विततो रश्मिरेषामधः स्विदासी.अ.अ.अत l
tiraścīno vitato raśmireṣāmadhaḥ svidāsī.a.a.at ll
The Rig Veda in Sanskrit: Rig Veda Book 10: Hymn 129

 

[Aupmanyav]

Perhaps this Google Groups will help.
Pratishakhyas - Wikipedia
Vedic Hymns
Ancient Indian Education
From Google (There is a lot of trash there)

Of course, the authority will be someone who has learned the Vedas (for his 'shakha', lineage, which may differ from other 'shakhas', lineages). Not easy.

 

[Liu]

Whitney's Sanskrit Grammar?

No, Stenzler. A German classic - more grammar than textbook, but pretty much an old standard (first edition is from 1886, my book's from 1974).

I also looked into a bunch of others now which I have access to.
And I must admit that only 2 of the 10 or so I checked mention word stress at all, and those 2 (Gonda/Ford (1960) and Morgenroth (1989)) agree with what you wrote.

So, I suppose the classic/vedic pronunciation got lost with time and this syllable based one, as modern as it may be, might actually be the one used by contemporary speakers of Sanskrit in India.

The best way to learn is to hear someone speaking and/or chanting.

That may be the case, but where to find that? Are there any recommendable audio courses?

I didn't have the impression that even my university lecturers in the Sanskrit courses (one a German native like me, the other from Sri Lanka) had much of a clue how to stress the words, at least they both couldn't really answer my questions about it. It's been a few years ago, now, though, so I might not remember correctly all they said. I think one only cared for stressing the meter when reciting, and the other said I should simply stress any long vowel even though that wouldn't be the actual pronunciation.

With that being my experiences with speakers of Sanskrit (not like they were fluent) you may see why I wonder how to learn it properly.

Perhaps this Google Groups will help.
Pratishakhyas - Wikipedia
Vedic Hymns
Ancient Indian Education
From Google (There is a lot of trash there)

Of course, the authority will be someone who has learned the Vedas (for his 'shakha', lineage, which may differ from other 'shakhas', lineages). Not easy.

Thanks for your replies. But you and the websites you linked/quoted seem to be talking about the pronunciation of specific letters, not about word accentuation.