Leaving Islam (and returning)

[Harikrish]

The death penalty for apostasy is found more directly in the Qur’an — Islamic authorities generally root it in two Qur’anic verses, 2:217 and 4:89, as Hugh has noted.

Here is 2:217:

They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: “Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members.” Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.

Meanwhile, 4:89 says this:

They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they). But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.

 

[Woodrow LI]

I understood none of the posts above. Sorry.

But since the title of the thread is clear, I want to post on it.

According to Islam, one can choose his/her religion as they want. And the Holy Quran 2:256 speaks about it, that there is no compulsion in (the acceptance of) religion.

What if he or she leaves after embracing Islam, you might ask.

There is no verse in the Holy Quran about killing the apostates. It is some hadiths in sunni sources that people differ in views. But, sunni brethren explained the issue here

Apostasy in Islam | ReligiousForums.com

You might check it.
And just to add, in shia Islam, the female apostate is not killed. And the male apostate is not killed either, unless he creates conflicts, takes physical actions against the state and etc. And when he does that, he is not killed right away. He is reasoned and asked for repentance. Thus, this is something that relates to the politics, security of the state, rather than the religions.

The third point, which is about repentance, you can study it here:

Discourse 8: Repentance I | Spiritual Discourses | Ayatullah Mutahhari

Thanks. ma salam

wa Alaikum Salaam

Our views are very similar in regards to this:

"And just to add, in shia Islam, the female apostate is not killed. And the male apostate is not killed either, unless he creates conflicts, takes physical actions against the state and etc. And when he does that, he is not killed right away. He is reasoned and asked for repentance. Thus, this is something that relates to the politics, security of the state, rather than the religions."

But, I am speaking as a follower of the Hanafi Madhab. I do not have sufficient knowledge to speak regarding the other 3 Madhabs.

 

[seeking4truth]

The death penalty for apostasy is found more directly in the Qur’an — Islamic authorities generally root it in two Qur’anic verses, 2:217 and 4:89, as Hugh has noted.

Here is 2:217:

They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: “Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members.” Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.

Meanwhile, 4:89 says this:

They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they). But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.

You forgot to finish the quotation which continues in the next verse clearly explaining that fighting is ONLY allowed against those who are attacking.
Ch 4 v. 90
Except those who are connected with a people between whom and you there is a pact, or those who come to you while their hearts shrink from fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had so pleased He would have given them power over you, then they would have surely fought you. So, if they keep aloof from you and fight you not, and make you an offer of peace, then remember that Allah has allowed you no way of aggression against them"

 

[Matemkar]

Surely those verses can not be taken out of the context but sadly both the extremist groups and Islamophobics do the otherwise.

Please see the beginning of this video, it explains all so beautiful:

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Surely those verses can not be taken out of the context but sadly both the extremist groups and Islamophobics do the otherwise.

Please see the beginning of this video, it explains all so beautiful:

No-do not usethe piouswith us-
Videoout
But even without that was seeing
Context of the verses and hadiths invites to the killing of the apostate from Islam

 

[Matemkar]

I am not "playing the pious". lol. And the context of the verses don't suggest the killing of the apostates, nor do the authentic hadiths.

P.s. the video does not work embedded on forums. But you still can click on it and open it on youtube and it works there. In the first 15 minutes of the video he refers to this and it is a bit funny sometimes, and makes mention of your religion as well. However I suggest the whole video even to non-muslims like you.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

I am not "playing the pious". lol. And the context of the verses don't suggest the killing of the apostates, nor do the authentic hadiths.

P.s. the video does not work embedded on forums. But you still can click on it and open it on youtube and it works there. In the first 15 minutes of the video he refers to this and it is a bit funny sometimes, and makes mention of your religion as well. However I suggest the whole video even to non-muslims like you.

Textscontainedinapostasy

The religious texts from the book and the year, we try to limit availability to apostasy.

1. the Qur'an (a) God says in his book dear "and withdraw you from the religion, died a faithless......." Al-Baqara 217.

And this verse can be defined as apostasy in Quran directory but has objected this verse as show proof of invariance as apostasy, but leave the punishment only in the afterlife. You can reply to this that the reply from the according Directory confirmation and accordingly we find that the apostasy was in the book of God. (B) God says "tell the break expression embark upon the first great bass to kill'em folk or recognize............" Verse 16 Surat Al-Fath. Verse-apostasy of Hanifa (1) Ibn katheer said: this verse descended on the people of apostasy from the Bani Hanifa and God has shown that they do not have a connection but them enter Islam or death.(2) (c) God says "ppbu who believed from the boomerang you about religion, God will come a people loves them and they love it with believers to unbelievers........." Verse 54 surah.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

- أحكام القران للجصاص ج 3 ، ص 393 - الشرح الكبير على المغنى ج10 ،ص568. 2- تفسير ابن كثير ج4 ، ص190، وهذا دليل على ان حد الرده عقوبته هى اما الاسلام او القتل وهنا يمكن الوقوف على حد الرده من ناحيه ثبوت الادله الوارده اما بالنسبه للعقوبه فهى ولضحه من الايه الكريمه لامحل للغط اولى التفاهه وغير العقلا ء لذين لاذمه لهم ولادين للحدبث حول هذا الموضوع مره اخرى. 3- إذا حد الردة ثابتا في الادله الشرعية سواء أكان القران الكريم أو السنة النبوية وعقوبته القتل باعتبارها جريمة حديه من المستفاد منها وذلك تطبيقا لحديث الرسول صلى الله عليه و سلم "من بدل دينه فاقتلوه

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

-The provisions of the Koran llgsas, vol. 3, pp. 393-commentary on Al-mughni, 10, p. 568. 2 – tafseer Ibn katheer, 4 c, p. 190, this is proof that an apostasy punishable either Islam or killed here can stand on apostasy in terms of evidence provided for punishment are weldhah of verse lamhal of vanity and non-confusing first dont start hard to azima and llhadbth were convicted on this topic again. 3. If an apostasy on forensic evidence whether the Quran or Sunna and his murder as a crime of limit utilized in accordance with the Hadith the prophet "whoever changes his religion, the allowance

 

[Matemkar]

Do you use google translate or something? I really don't understand your English. Except for the sources you mention and they are not shia sources, so, I really don't understand why you bring them here to me as sources and interprete them to me.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

HAMaulana-.
TheseversesofQuran
Is referring to apostasy and its punishment
And also any enmity against God
Isthe Quran
Hadeeth Al-mohammedi from his famous, "kill him!"
Theevidence ofthekilling ofthe apostate

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Maulana Shiite sources and this is the hardest thing in the application of the apostate
Adequacy of thepious


In the name of God the merciful

And the Almighty Allah and we use the best of his creation all good Messenger mhamdwalh



God Almighty says {and withdraw you from his religion, die wehokavr those has been thwarted in this world and the hereafter, and those where they Erik ashabalnar} (Al-baqarah: 217).

Ruling on the apostate is murder on the front, the jurists unanimous welakhlaffi killers between Shiites and Sunnis, yes there is a breakdown between the ruling mullahs in the ask for penitence to the apostate fungal death.

The scientists agreed that the killing of the apostate innate unconditionally the ask for penitence; based on extensive texts in this aspect on House of inerrancy (peace be upon them)

In the correct bin Jafar, his brother Imam Musa bin Ja'far (alihalslam), said: I asked him about the Muslim hierarchy? Said: (kills and ysttab). I said: it is the safest thmartd about Islam? He said: (ysttab, it is returned, otherwise kill).

Adequate source/branches 7: 257 book border for an apostate, a modern (10)
==============
According to the Islamic doctrine and believe that the afterlife is real life, and that the lower House passage, and the infidel whenever he stayed in this world has increased his punishment in the hereafter, he said: ((do not let unbelievers but dictate to them the best for themselves but to dictate them to sin and fall further torment them insulting)) (Al-Imran: 178), the killing of the apostate is mercy and relief of his punishment.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Do you use google translate or something? I really don't understand your English. Except for the sources you mention and they are not shia sources, so, I really don't understand why you bring them here to me as sources and interprete them to me.

Maulana you denied us saying that Shiite and Sunni Muslims agree on Qur'anic basis
The killing of the apostate is one of those foundations
I madeyoua Shiasourcealso
If you interpret the Quran and hadiths than meaning
You'll share yours from fire
I wish you to provide us the Qur'an and Islam as it is and without using the pious

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

No answer
They toldSunni
We have providedevidenceof theSunni
They saidwe haveevidence fromdifferentShiiteShia
We said
The Koran is the same in Shia and Sunni

 

[Harikrish]

If Muslims have nothing to fear of Islam why are they being killed by the ISIS?

 

[Harikrish]

No answer
They toldSunni
We have providedevidenceof theSunni
They saidwe haveevidence fromdifferentShiiteShia
We said
The Koran is the same in Shia and Sunni

But the interpretations of the Quran are not the same to Shia and Sunni. An Arab talks to his camel quite differently than he talks to his 6 year old child bride. Both to him are uneducated illiterates, but the camel can be excused for being an animal. The wife he must beat.

 

[beenie]

But the interpretations of the Quran are not the same to Shia and Sunni. An Arab talks to his camel quite differently than he talks to his 6 year old child bride. Both to him are uneducated illiterates, but the camel can be excused for being an animal. The wife he must beat.

Are you in a competition with yourself for the most ignorant posts to ever be posted on RF? Let's just give you the crown and call it a day.

 

[Harikrish]

Are you in a competition with yourself for the most ignorant posts to ever be posted on RF? Let's just give you the crown and call it a day.

Do you not know only the Shia take part in the mourning of Muharram where the unmarried Shi'a Muslims beat themselves in public till they bleed with whips and knives. Whereas the Sunni just beat their illiterate child brides privately and treat the occasion as a domestic issue.

 

[beenie]

Do you not know only the Shia take part in the mourning of Muharram where the unmarried Shi'a Muslims beat themselves in public till they bleed with whips and knives. Whereas the Sunni just beat their illiterate child brides privately and treat the occasion as a domestic issue.

I'm not denying that this happens, but you post as if EVERY Shia participates in the Muharram rituals and EVERY Sunny has and beats child brides. Make your point without generalizing about an entire population and MAYBE people will take you more seriously. Now you just sound desperate and illiterate like you accuse the Muslims of being.

 

[Harikrish]

I'm not denying that this happens, but you post as if EVERY Shia participates in the Muharram rituals and EVERY Sunny has and beats child brides. Make your point without generalizing about an entire population and MAYBE people will take you more seriously. Now you just sound desperate and illiterate like you accuse the Muslims of being.

Islam is not only for those who participate. The goal of Islam should be to educate all Muslims so they can read the Quran. There are 800 million illiterate Muslims and many more millions that cannot read the Quran because it is written in Arabic.
Shia Muslims beat themselves during the mourning of Muharram for the people who defended Islam.

It is time all Muslims who cannot read the Quran should beat themselves with whips and knives in public to show their commitment to Islam after failing to meet even the basic requirements like reading their scriptures, because all Muslims are guilty of gross negligence.

Because there are so many million illiterate Muslims. Islamists should seek the help of infidels to identify and beat those Muslims who cannot read or do not read the Quran. This way both the Islamists and infidels can participate in a common jihad against illiterate Muslims.

Imagine infidels acquainting themselves with all 164 jihad verses and applying it to the illiterate Muslims. That would even make the prophet smile!!!