Left & Right "Racism"

[buddhist]

I'll take this seriously the moment you show me how an entire culture is irrevocably traumatized, scarred and in many cases utterly annihilated by a handful of ******** losing some money.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. I have no personal knowledge of any event before I was born.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Here's the thing; a xenophile is never going to put "others" in camps and eventually make soap out of "others" for the sole crime of being an "other".

Wasn't the soap thing proven to be a hoax?

 

[Nietzsche]

Wasn't the soap thing proven to be a hoax?

Lampshades were a hoax, soap was never conclusively proven but there are a handful of reports lending credence.

 

[MARCELLO]

Wasn't the soap thing proven to be a hoax?

Technically speaking , soap material is fat, I don't think it is a wise idea to try to manufacture soap from starving people weighing less than 50 kgs probably with no fat on their body.

 

[Laika]

One definition of "racism" is: a "preconceived judgment or opinion" of "a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics" (expanded from MW, definition #2)

Most might probably understand "racism" to mean preconceptions or pre-judgments resulting in unwarranted hatred towards specific classes of people (e.g. xenophobia), as opposed to a careful, rational evaluation of the individuals belonging to the class.

However, wouldn't you also agree that "racism" can also be understood as preconceptions or pre-judgments resulting in unwarranted love or acceptance towards classes of people (e.g. xenophilia), also in opposition to a careful, rational evaluation of the individuals in the class?

I was thinking about this in light of how many leaders are condemning hatred towards migrants (a class of people); however, I also see that many of those same leaders are guilty of racism themselves, having welcomed those same migrants with open arms, labeling that whole class in a specific way (e.g. as peaceful).

Would you agree that xenophilia is just as racist as xenophobia?

This may be of interest: "Model Minority"

Asian Americans are often thought of as having a strong work ethic and family values (because of the association of Confusianism in Asian culture and values system for example). they are not considered a threat as the sterotypical "problem minority" such as african americans but are thought of (in the late 20th century) as a "model minority". this positive association can and does have negative consequences because of unjustifably high expectations of academic and career success.

so there is academic support for your argument that xenophilla is a form of racism.

 

[Midnight Rain]

In racism Xenophobia and Xenophillia are two sides to the same coin. If two races are treated unequally one is considered to be the target of phobia while the other is the target of phillia. There is no real difference. However, and I hope I am wrong, the only difference the OP seems to be interested in is in which foot the race is in.

 

[buddhist]

In racism Xenophobia and Xenophillia are two sides to the same coin. If two races are treated unequally one is considered to be the target of phobia while the other is the target of phillia. There is no real difference. However, and I hope I am wrong, the only difference the OP seems to be interested in is in which foot the race is in.

Not really; I think you are correct. It's just that one side (xenophilia) has, in recent years, been pushed as a sign of unity and harmony, when in fact it isn't.

 

[Midnight Rain]

Not really; I think you are correct. It's just that one side (xenophilia) has, in recent years, been pushed as a sign of unity and harmony, when in fact it isn't.

It depends. I wish there were more effective ways of combating racism that has been structured into our societies over thousands of years but its very difficult to do so. Some of the programs and orders set down to help create a more equal opprotunity is seen as a counterbalance to current racial disadvantages. I see that its not really fair and I see how people don't like it. I honestly don't know of a better way.

 

[buddhist]

It depends. I wish there were more effective ways of combating racism that has been structured into our societies over thousands of years but its very difficult to do so. Some of the programs and orders set down to help create a more equal opprotunity is seen as a counterbalance to current racial disadvantages. I see that its not really fair and I see how people don't like it. I honestly don't know of a better way.

When people feel disadvantaged, it's because of desire and other attachments to this world and the things of this world. Unfortunately, such attachments bring more suffering into the world, and the cycle of suffering continues.

Instead of teaching people to be more attached as a result of various programs (which often swing society back and forth endlessly from xenophobia to xenophilia), I think a better way would be to teach people what Buddha taught (detachment and disenchantment).

 

[Midnight Rain]

When people feel disadvantaged, it's because of desire and other attachments to this world and the things of this world. Unfortunately, such attachments bring more suffering into the world, and the cycle of suffering continues.

Instead of teaching people to be more attached as a result of various programs (which often swing society back and forth endlessly from xenophobia to xenophilia), I think a better way would be to teach people what Buddha taught (detachment and disenchantment).

I disagree. That would be forcing one's own religious rhetoric on them. Telling people to "get over it" when they have starving children isn't an option for me as a humanitarian. I live by one creed, "Harm ye none". TBH I feel that way of thinking is harmful so I cannot endorse it. I can understand your opinion but within the realm of reasonable action not everyone is going to be able to simply let go of the suffering they objectively have. So I think its better to try and right the wrongs of this world the best we can. I just think we are currently doing a poor job if it.

 

[buddhist]

I disagree. That would be forcing one's own religious rhetoric on them. Telling people to "get over it" when they have starving children isn't an option for me as a humanitarian. I live by one creed, "Harm ye none". TBH I feel that way of thinking is harmful so I cannot endorse it. I can understand your opinion but within the realm of reasonable action not everyone is going to be able to simply let go of the suffering they objectively have. So I think its better to try and right the wrongs of this world the best we can. I just think we are currently doing a poor job if it.

Do you propose that the best way to help others is through private individual efforts, or through the force of law?

 

[Midnight Rain]

Do you propose that the best way to help others is through private individual efforts, or through the force of law?

I propose that I don't know of an effective way to actually help end racial inequality other than broad socially responsible programs such as effective high value education for everyone, higher minimum wage to combat poverty and universal healthcare to put everyone in a needs based healthcare system.

 

[buddhist]

I propose that I don't know of an effective way to actually help end racial inequality other than broad socially responsible programs such as effective high value education for everyone, higher minimum wage to combat poverty and universal healthcare to put everyone in a needs based healthcare system.

What about people who do not value state-run education or allopathic healthcare, and see them as negatives instead of positives? What about people who do not meet the level of skills required for a specific minimum wage? Such programs are xenophilic towards those who value such things, and xenophobic towards those who do not.

 

[Midnight Rain]

What about people who do not value state-run education or allopathic healthcare, and see them as negatives instead of positives? What about people who do not meet the level of skills required for a specific minimum wage? Such programs are xenophilic towards those who value such things, and xenophobic towards those who do not.

It wouldn't be classified as xeno-anything. We know as a fact that those programs work better than without those programs. They have the opinion that it is a negative but the reality of the equality it brings is not up for debate.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I think "xenophilia," particularly in Caucasians, is more rooted in self-racism than anything else. The "love" for these other people is only love in contrast to their self-loathing.

 

[buddhist]

It wouldn't be classified as xeno-anything. We know as a fact that those programs work better than without those programs. They have the opinion that it is a negative but the reality of the equality it brings is not up for debate.

It is certainly up for debate. If there was no debate, there would be no opposition to those ideas. Just because one side believes there is no debate, does not make it true.

 

[buddhist]

I think "xenophilia," particularly in Caucasians, is more rooted in self-racism than anything else. The "love" for these other people is only love in contrast to their self-loathing.

Perhaps ... whatever the case may be, would you agree that "categorizing" others - that is, a group as a whole (in a negative or positive manner) - is "racist"?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Perhaps ... whatever the case may be, would you agree that "categorizing" others - that is, a group as a whole (in a negative or positive manner) - is "racist"?

I would say that that definition doesn't correspond to the way the word has been traditionally used. However, in recent years (in some circles), the term has been regularly expanded to include things regarding race which seem to be completely neutral, even. So, at the end of the day, I suppose it depends on who you're talking to.

I'd say that, for most people, their common usage of the word "racism" connotes a negative view or judgment of the race you're referring to.

 

[Midnight Rain]

It is certainly up for debate. If there was no debate, there would be no opposition to those ideas. Just because one side believes there is no debate, does not make it true.

Quite true. However facts are facts. People may not like equality and they may not like equal opportunity. That is their issue. But raising the minimum wage heals poor people. Universal healthcare that is based on need rather than greed works in favor of everyone equally and publicly funded education is the only basis that we have for giving equal opportunity to all social classes. But there are many that would rather buy their way with money they have due to opportunities they had that were in many cases based on their skin color.

 

[buddhist]

Quite true. However facts are facts. People may not like equality and they may not like equal opportunity. That is their issue. But raising the minimum wage heals poor people. Universal healthcare that is based on need rather than greed works in favor of everyone equally and publicly funded education is the only basis that we have for giving equal opportunity to all social classes. But there are many that would rather buy their way with money they have due to opportunities they had that were in many cases based on their skin color.

No doubt you see those things as inconvertable "facts". As I understand it, the other side sees the "facts" differently.

• The minimum wage excludes the poorest who often have little to no marketable skills. Why should an employer keep a person in his employ if the skills the employee brings to his position is not worth the new, higher minimum wage? Wouldn't you agree that hiring someone who is personally willing for 5/hour for whatever task is better than compared to not hiring him, which leaves him poorer, since the law demands 10/hour?
• "Universal healthcare" is based on the allopathic system which excludes other systems of medicine; many might have personal objections to the allopathic system, and believe other systems are superior, for whatever reason.
• Publically funded education serves to promote the interests of the government which funds it, and is seen by many as government indoctrination. It is also structured in specific ways which are not optimal for every individual. For example, policies in public education often heavily promote the extroverted ideal, structures classes to promote group-think, and are more often than not lecture modeled. This often works against students who are introverted, those who think and innovate best on their own, and those who learn best via personal experimentation, or via reading, etc.

This is not all about skin color, but about individual needs. It is both xenophilic and xenophobic, and thus racist, to class everyone in the same mold, as needing and wanting the same things, according to a single ideal. Forced behavior according to a class ideal is racist.