Legalizing Shoplifting in America

[Sunstone]

I'd agree with you that religion as a whole is hurting society. I mean, when's the last time a Muslim country contributed something useful to society? On the other hand, the United States, China, and major European countries do very well in contributing technological advances to society and providing relief to third world countries, and they are also predominant Christian.

So far as I know, Muslim countries have contributed many very good and decent people to this world -- or are you suggesting that only technological and scientific contributions are good?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

So far as I know, Muslim countries have contributed many very good and decent people to this world -- or are you suggesting that only technological and scientific contributions are good?

The thing is, Muslims delivered the West from the Dark Ages, and the contributions from Islam in Western thinking were philosophical, and especially technological and scientific.

 

[Sunstone]

The thing is, Muslims delivered the West from the Dark Ages, and the contributions from Islam in Western thinking were philosophical, and especially technological and scientific.

Very true.

 

[Smoke]

I would nitpick that early scientific and technological advances were pretty much hand in hand with religious beliefs even among such giants as Kepler, Brahe, Newton and others. Even the historic European universities were founded by the Church as centers of learning.

I just think that the religious background played a far less role than political, economic and technological advances allowed.

One can be a believer and a scientist, but the two are entirely separate. You make advances by rejecting authority and dogma (which are the heart of Christianity) and dedicating yourself to the scientific method. A Christian who is prepared to abandon his beliefs if they don't hold up to scrutiny is a very bad Christian; a scientist who isn't prepared to abandon his is a very bad scientist.

That's one reason why Paul Cameron is such a disgrace to his field. None of his studies are scientific; he just sets out to prove what he already believes.

 

[Mathematician]

Since when was China/Asia predominantly Christian? Europe also has a large atheist and agnostic population.

 

[jamaesi]

You know, I just can't see any good reason to allow theft of anything from anyone, so I will have be in support of the laws that deal with theft in America.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

The "It's love, so it can't be wrong" arguement:
Anyone who says this obviously doesn't know what love is. Of course the media displays love as nothing more than sexual attraction, but true love is caring about the well being of someone else above your own. How can you say you love someone if you're taking 40 years off their life just to fulfill your lustful desires? There is no love involved in a homosexual relationship, only lust.

I would suggest you don't assume that because your own homosexual relationships have involved only lust that everyone elses homosexual relationships are the same.
Never had a homosexual relationship? Then I'd say you're not in a position to have any idea what a homosexual relationship is or isn't based on.
FYI...married men live longer than single men, but married women die earlier than single women. I'd suggest if heterosexual marriages were based on anything more than lust they wouldn't occur. How can you say you love someone when you're taking 5 or more years off her life?

 

[Mathematician]

You know, I just can't see any good reason to allow theft of anything from anyone,

Ah, but there's the problem: can you steal items that are already stolen from the workers?

 

[Smoke]

Ah, but there's the problem: can you steal items that are already stolen from the workers?

So, stealing from Walmart or Exxon could be morally neutral -- or even praiseworthy?

 

[Mathematician]

If we're talking about retail outlets, I don't know. The burden is passed to the workers and consumers. I'd say stealing from the people who run the sweat-shops in Asia would be justified. And that includes Western management.

 

[Smoke]

If we're talking about retail outlets, I don't know. The burden is passed to the workers and consumers. I'd say stealing from the people who run the sweat-shops in Asia would be justified. And that includes Western management.

So the ethical thing would be not shoplifting from Walmart, but rather stealing from the Walton family?

 

[Mathematician]

I think it depends on circumstances. I personally would have no objections to someone breaking into a Walton or Hilton house and taking $X,XXX in cash. Whether that's theft or taking away what they don't deserve is debatable. I'd say it's the latter.

And I've worked with the Kroger SHRINK program, so I know that only in cases where there are large numbers of goods unaccountable do prices really go up. A homeless person taking a loaf of bread and some produce is nothing.

But then again I'm only judging on American workers.

 

[jamaesi]

I'm afraid the OP was about shoplifting with no mention of homosexuality.


On with the theft debate!

 

[UnTheist]

Are you serious? This thread is not about shoplifting.

Does gnomon's post not clarify this?

 

[Sunstone]

Are you serious? This thread is not about shoplifting.

Does gnomon's post not clarify this?

Sorry, I've been focused on the OP and the reports we've had that the thread is off topic. I'll take a closer look and get back to you.

 

[gnomon]

Just let it go.

 

[UnTheist]

Sorry, I've been focused on the OP and the reports we've had that the thread is off topic. I'll take a closer look and get back to you.

Sarcasm? I dunno

The OP also said:

If an animal does it, then it must be natural and morally acceptable for us humans to do it also.

I'll "let it go" now

 

[Sunstone]

Sorry, I've been focused on the OP and the reports we've had that the thread is off topic. I'll take a closer look and get back to you.

OK, I got taken in by this one. After a quick read of more than the OP, I now agree the thread is about homosexuality. I've deleted the earlier mod post along with posts that quoted it. Sorry for the inconvenience and enjoy your discussion of homosexuality!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I believe that shoplifting should be legalized in America. I can't help it that I'm hungry, I was born this way. To those of you who say shoplifting is sinful or unnatural, I can prove to you it isn't! See here: Shoplifting Seagull in Scotland. If an animal does it, then it must be natural and morally acceptable for us humans to do it also. Plus, look how cute that seagull is, how can anything that cute be wrong? Shoplifting should be legalized in America!

Wow what a disingenious argument! You do realize that this is an argument from absurdity... starting a debate out with a fallacy is begginning on the losing side.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Do you even know what bigot means? A bigot is an intolerant person. How does me pointing out the extreme health risks of homosexuality make me intolerant? Shouldn't people be allowed to know what they are doing to themselves? I know people find it hard to believe that I actually care about other people, but I do. I'm only interested in the truth. If you know of a research study that shows homosexuality isn't anywhere near as unhealthy as these other studies show, then please share.

If you think for one minute that homosexuals are the only people who engage in anal sex or experimental sex (sex with toys on each other).... then you are mistaken. The world is FULL of heterosexual freaky people. All of you supposed evidence to support your claims are bias. Go back and do some research on heterosexuals to find out where they stand when it comes to lifestyle, health, STDs and divorce....you will be amazed....