TLK Valentine
Read the books that others would burn.
There are many issues raised in Genesis 3:1-6 -- you're going to have to be more specific.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Legitimate reasons not to believe in God
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
There are many issues raised in Genesis 3:1-6 -- you're going to have to be more specific.
Interesting thought! I think you’re right.
Wisdom only comes with experience. A perfect child would still want to eat ice cream all the time.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
You're absolutely correct. If Jesus is not God, then what Christians are feeling is all in our minds and is make-believe.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
Nothing and nobody could ever supersede the Second Person of the Trinity.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I think we can apply that to lots of religions, even the Baha'is. They've accepted the Baha'i teachings as true, and it feels good to them. They see things shaping up the way the Baha'i Faith has predicted. But JW's can say that. Evangelicals can say that. Jews can say that. And, I think, most any religion can too.
I think there is "legitimate" reasons to doubt God and religions. And, for believers, there are legitimate reasons why they believe their religion. I have my doubts about, and usually aim my questions at, religions that think theirs is the only true way. And even though Baha'is say they don't, I think that is exactly what they believe.
Okay, fair enough. (I did say it was the condensed version.)
If you just read the account with an open mind, and reason on it, you’ll notice the first one: that God is a liar.
Then, this serpent (which we learn in Revelation 12:9 was actually Satan) claimed that they’d (A&E) be better off making their own choices. In this case, rebelling.
It was an issue of sovereignty, and by listening to the serpent and rebelling, A&E gave this issue validity.
I’m posting an article better than I can write it. Plus, it’s difficult to type… I have a slight disability.
Please, try to keep an open mind:
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102005141
if you have any questions, I’ll try to answer them.
Goodnight.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I think that Evangelical Christianity is still in the running as being true. I don't think the Baha'i Faith has shown that the prophecies about the end times have been fulfilled. I keep asking them where are the prophecies that show the Messiah comes to Earth four times, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah, That the Messiah will appear in Arabia and then twice in Persia? That when he comes as the "end-times" Messiah, he appears in Persia as a Muslim, gets thrown in jail and dies without establishing peace on Earth... and then predicts that the Great Tribulation is going to come because the world has rejected him.
To me, the Tribulation happens and then the Messiah appears, and he fixes things. Also, the Lamb is the main character of the Book of Revelation and the Baha'is only have guesses as to who this is. But that's only one of the problems I have with the way Baha'is interpret Revelation. I don't agree with their interpretation that the "Three Woes" are Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah... That Muhammad and Ali are the two witnesses... And that the Umayyads and Abbasids are the beasts... And that the number 666 is a date. Which is really 661, but they add 5 years because Jesus wasn't born in the year zero.
I like lots of things about the Baha'i Faith, but once I learned about the teachings of some of the other religions, the Baha'i Faith seems like they've made-up and manipulated too many things to get their beliefs to fit in and sound as if they are true. Of course, not a problem for Baha'is, because they believe those things do fit in and the prophecies have been fulfilled.
TLK Valentine
Read the books that others would burn.
Indeed -- And that God left his "perfect children" unattended was in itself an unwise decision.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
First humans didn't self idolate.
Memory human adult. Parents one of only origin status. Adult human.
We're all babies.
Self Idolating conscious teaching tells information as sophistry..satanic themes about science of men always. The star didn't save human life it attacked it only. Don't believe it warned.
Satan reason before the holy saved heavens the advice. Laws.
I am not self...my self one human Idolating. Says a Human legally applying they believe in the laws.
Okay.
I do however idolate my own self in another humans life or teaching....still self Idolating a human is ignored as the human parents warning.
Science theism sophist behaviour of humans theorising.
Word con.
Scientist. Humans are dominion life. Exact. No theorising looking back legal stance.
A human when only a term in science the Monkey. Isn't a human. A monkey is mutual equal a Monkey not a human theist.
Law legal mutual equal the only allowed answer.
A human is not mutual the monkey or a monkey.
Men invented science as humans.
A man human should say in law the legal answers. A human man is mutual equal to a human woman. No thesis exists. Science.
The advice only a mutual human by man....ny penis is missing.
In nuclear cloud earth heavens cloud is imaged a man's human penis. Photographed image.
Cloud imaged warning you decimated your own human life in past. Bio human by sex.
Man who invented theorising of science...baby adult men.
In past a monkey human says skeleton..human present.
To present past is now the future.
Future life exact now. Human.
Word con. My life now in the future I'll be a human. You don't say in the future I'll still be a Monkey human.
Is your science man's con.
The past life monkey human is now only the Human healthy.
There is no human future. It's now only.
A adult has sex...a baby human is now the future.
The testimony a legal teaching stated why a mutual equal human baby life three and three exact and the same.
Holy ghosts. Father human. Son human.
Holy hosts. Mother human. Daughter human.
Two is the same mutual.
Father mother.
Son daughter...two.
One is the same isn't three. Ghosts.
The teaching said two of every one species in same on three but one mutual heavens mutual equal...one meant three terms as legal only.
Not one and not three the advice in legal status.
Taught.
It isn't an argument now.
It was a legal precedence in humans past.
You were told stop self Idolating it was and is hypocritical thin king.
Monkey human past future is now healthy human only.
We don't want human babies now to inherit a monkey human life in their future claiming it equal to any human Theists story self Idolating by thesis.
When satanic thesis says I invented it's human inherited outcome in the past as my beast science human Satanism causes.
Our warning now. See the destroyer theist Mr you're part a machine human theories.
Who says by word con a human life as the human began in out of space.
No life whatsoever exists in out of space. Word con said aliens do.
Why humans say you're an alien only and part machine.
Answer not in law as mutual equal human human.
Memory human adult. Parents one of only origin status. Adult human.
We're all babies.
Self Idolating conscious teaching tells information as sophistry..satanic themes about science of men always. The star didn't save human life it attacked it only. Don't believe it warned.
Satan reason before the holy saved heavens the advice. Laws.
I am not self...my self one human Idolating. Says a Human legally applying they believe in the laws.
Okay.
I do however idolate my own self in another humans life or teaching....still self Idolating a human is ignored as the human parents warning.
Science theism sophist behaviour of humans theorising.
Word con.
Scientist. Humans are dominion life. Exact. No theorising looking back legal stance.
A human when only a term in science the Monkey. Isn't a human. A monkey is mutual equal a Monkey not a human theist.
Law legal mutual equal the only allowed answer.
A human is not mutual the monkey or a monkey.
Men invented science as humans.
A man human should say in law the legal answers. A human man is mutual equal to a human woman. No thesis exists. Science.
The advice only a mutual human by man....ny penis is missing.
In nuclear cloud earth heavens cloud is imaged a man's human penis. Photographed image.
Cloud imaged warning you decimated your own human life in past. Bio human by sex.
Man who invented theorising of science...baby adult men.
In past a monkey human says skeleton..human present.
To present past is now the future.
Future life exact now. Human.
Word con. My life now in the future I'll be a human. You don't say in the future I'll still be a Monkey human.
Is your science man's con.
The past life monkey human is now only the Human healthy.
There is no human future. It's now only.
A adult has sex...a baby human is now the future.
The testimony a legal teaching stated why a mutual equal human baby life three and three exact and the same.
Holy ghosts. Father human. Son human.
Holy hosts. Mother human. Daughter human.
Two is the same mutual.
Father mother.
Son daughter...two.
One is the same isn't three. Ghosts.
The teaching said two of every one species in same on three but one mutual heavens mutual equal...one meant three terms as legal only.
Not one and not three the advice in legal status.
Taught.
It isn't an argument now.
It was a legal precedence in humans past.
You were told stop self Idolating it was and is hypocritical thin king.
Monkey human past future is now healthy human only.
We don't want human babies now to inherit a monkey human life in their future claiming it equal to any human Theists story self Idolating by thesis.
When satanic thesis says I invented it's human inherited outcome in the past as my beast science human Satanism causes.
Our warning now. See the destroyer theist Mr you're part a machine human theories.
Who says by word con a human life as the human began in out of space.
No life whatsoever exists in out of space. Word con said aliens do.
Why humans say you're an alien only and part machine.
Answer not in law as mutual equal human human.
I brought up how people of your religion tortured and execiuted people for witchcraft, I didn't say you were one of them. But thanks for acknowledging that members of your religion have done these crimes against humanity. They did so through what they read in the Bible and through the authority of God.
Do you act morally through the authority of God too?
TLK Valentine
Read the books that others would burn.
Already spotted that one -- Everything that the serpent said would happen happened... exactly as it said it would.
Whereas God's threat of "on the day you eat of it you shall die" requires considerable poetic license to even be considered truthful... and even then, it falls on deaf ears when given to those who lack the wisdom to avoid death.
First, we can't accept the "serpent=Satan" claim at face value.
Having an open mind is one thing; ignoring the facts is quite another.
The Book of Genesis was written by the Jews, for the Jews.
For the Jews, "Satan" was an angel who reported human delinquencies to God -- not "The Devil" per se, because...
Judaism doesn't believe in Satan as "the Devil." Jewish theology sees "evil" as an abstraction, with no need for an omnimalevolent personification.
After all, the only times Satan is presented in the Old Testament is in the books of Job and Zechariah -- and both times, he is presented as a loyal employee of the Most High...
Second, that is far from the only (let alone biggest) issue with Genesis.
IF we do run with the idea that Satan was the serpent (which would require tossing out the theology of the original authors), then that means that Satan's rebellion, war with Heaven, defeat, and subsequent exile into Hell have already happened before the creation event.
Not only this, but Satan has already found a way to break out of his Infernal prison, and wriggle his way into God's "perfect" creation, that's all the more reason for God not to leave His perfect children unattended. Creation is still a battleground, and God doesn't even put a lock on the front door of His latest creation?
An interesting read, but it still doesn't really address the question of why God has chosen to abandon His post and leave Satan in charge (albeit temporarily). Personally, I prefer Thomas Aquinas' theory:
Thomas Aquinas put forth that God, being all-knowing, allows tragedy to occur because He knows that a greater good will come from it further down the line. Amputate the arm, save the patient; that sort of thing. God always plays the long game.
Case in Point:
On May 3, 1980, God allowed 13-year-old Cari Lightner to be hit and killed by a drunk driver. While an apparently senseless loss at the time, it did galvanize Cari's mother, Candice Lightner, to found MADD: Mothers Against Drunk Driving, an organization which has, through activism and lobbying, prevented tens of thousands of drunk driving accidents across the nation. From tragedy comes triumph.
One could even argue that this is why God allowed the Fall in the first place... although it does raise uncomfortable questions regarding why He's taking so long...
... of course, as an unbeliever, myself, I subscribe to a far simpler theory for the existence of evil and suffering -- the condensed version of "excrement transpires."
Not all living things have brains nor consciousness. Bacteria ilve but has no consciousness as we define it. Do you have a problem using antibiotics?Whoa, hold on there.
We are part of the universe, as are all creatures.
Would you think twice about kicking a rock? I'm going to guess you wouldn't have a problem with it. How about kicking a dog? We recognize consciousness in living things all the time. We recognize some life, and non-living things like rocks and not having consciousness or feelings. So your statement above is not quite accture in every day life. It's an ideal you surely don't live by when no one is paying attention.
The fuel pump in a cat is part of the care. But the car is not a fuel pump. We humans are living things in the universe. But we are not the universe. The universe is not conscious, nor human.
I suggest one of the reasons humans seek religious answers is because they ARE aimless. Atheists function very well via their own wits. Can you explain why atheists can provide their own meaning in life while believers need to follow some dogma?
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Egotists. The first cult science versus lAw all nations national human family humans on earth.
Natural human versus cult human behaviour organised controlled.
Warning the human cult behaviour history presence. Continually re ordering new cult groups vying for human supremacy.
Science caused occultism.
Machine one fixed position body.
One body a metal in law is fixed. All machines one position yet you built Multi machines...same outcome every nation one. The machine status only.
Humans in every nation garden in every nation animals in every nation are bio diverse. Not fixed.
Not one. One is man man U AL only water of life used to cool to get machines body only.
All machines same status. Transmitter machine says men in science our holiest. Isn't destroying. I'm using heavens water life cooling to own transmitter of machine.
Water bio life used twice to have machine body and then machines transmitter is mutual equal to bio life still existing. Water of life position two. Yet transmitters are not biology caused bio life harmed. Told self the human it had.
Human is not a Transmitter.
Human is not the machine body transmitting.
Human power mongers button pusher using machine as a weapon. Machine body now beyond their human bio body were informed already. Machine now a weapon used against bio life.
No longer one mutual body status water cooled supported. Machine position just the body itself.
Self destructive personality humans in cults agree by cult condition to overthrow harm any other human position is illegal.
The idea my new machines from old past stopped nuclear science now owned Built highest holiest machine. It owns no ground earth above or below decimation. In your human theisms only.
Past human machine science stopped. New machine invention first.
What lying is about in human only science thoughts you do lie personally as a cult behaviour. Agreed upon in cult situation group agreement.
It is only human behaviours self destructive advice.
Natural human versus cult human behaviour organised controlled.
Warning the human cult behaviour history presence. Continually re ordering new cult groups vying for human supremacy.
Science caused occultism.
Machine one fixed position body.
One body a metal in law is fixed. All machines one position yet you built Multi machines...same outcome every nation one. The machine status only.
Humans in every nation garden in every nation animals in every nation are bio diverse. Not fixed.
Not one. One is man man U AL only water of life used to cool to get machines body only.
All machines same status. Transmitter machine says men in science our holiest. Isn't destroying. I'm using heavens water life cooling to own transmitter of machine.
Water bio life used twice to have machine body and then machines transmitter is mutual equal to bio life still existing. Water of life position two. Yet transmitters are not biology caused bio life harmed. Told self the human it had.
Human is not a Transmitter.
Human is not the machine body transmitting.
Human power mongers button pusher using machine as a weapon. Machine body now beyond their human bio body were informed already. Machine now a weapon used against bio life.
No longer one mutual body status water cooled supported. Machine position just the body itself.
Self destructive personality humans in cults agree by cult condition to overthrow harm any other human position is illegal.
The idea my new machines from old past stopped nuclear science now owned Built highest holiest machine. It owns no ground earth above or below decimation. In your human theisms only.
Past human machine science stopped. New machine invention first.
What lying is about in human only science thoughts you do lie personally as a cult behaviour. Agreed upon in cult situation group agreement.
It is only human behaviours self destructive advice.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
These people do not all even CLAIM to be "sons of God"
Well clearly, the disciples who were Jewish thought that he was.
Almighty God knew that people would plot to kill him, just as John the Baptist had been killed.
..but this time G-d had other plans .. he was taken out of this world, to be with G-d, and will return to complete his earthly life at a time appointed.
Jesus, on whom be peace, will have plenty of people believing in him, this time round.
Yes .. as the Book of Revelation confirms.
Indeed.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Humans as one is species and not any nation.
O earth is one God planet deity the said human stated legal entity...body owned it's own heavens ..the planet in space.
No man is God legal.
God O earth plus heavens body. Two one types of masses. Mass itself variable bodies in one body one..mass. Law mass says no man is God.
Who theoried against humanity?
Humans did..mutual equal.
Who said science was God?
Human scientists did.
Who says today God sciences is wrong?
Men of science do.
Humans.
Who tells the human scientist he's wrong also?
A human natural not in any science cult organisation now.
Human is only legally in human life the human.
No man is God stated as men invented all human theisms of science. Gods terms.
Why a human woman mutual equal adult life said. For thousands of years of human woman's life was abused. It was chosen by mutual humans men as the theist minds.
Who gave away mutual natural human law life consciousness to be a human theist of science.
Is exactly why the status no man is God was stated as men only theoried God science.
Self idolators.
Placed his life as superior and abusive to women as he pretended he was a man and a God.
Exact teaching.
O earth is one God planet deity the said human stated legal entity...body owned it's own heavens ..the planet in space.
No man is God legal.
God O earth plus heavens body. Two one types of masses. Mass itself variable bodies in one body one..mass. Law mass says no man is God.
Who theoried against humanity?
Humans did..mutual equal.
Who said science was God?
Human scientists did.
Who says today God sciences is wrong?
Men of science do.
Humans.
Who tells the human scientist he's wrong also?
A human natural not in any science cult organisation now.
Human is only legally in human life the human.
No man is God stated as men invented all human theisms of science. Gods terms.
Why a human woman mutual equal adult life said. For thousands of years of human woman's life was abused. It was chosen by mutual humans men as the theist minds.
Who gave away mutual natural human law life consciousness to be a human theist of science.
Is exactly why the status no man is God was stated as men only theoried God science.
Self idolators.
Placed his life as superior and abusive to women as he pretended he was a man and a God.
Exact teaching.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That would be true if Jesus was the Second Person of the Trinity.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
That is your assumption.
Many people think that plants are conscious in some way.
No, I think my foot would have the problem.
That is not logical, because we are a part of the universe.
I would agree that many humans are searching for something, and is often because of some bad experience in life.
Mmm .. we are all human, and I think we shouldn't be too hasty in thinking others are inferior because they "turn to God".
I consider them to be the lucky ones.
Almighty God does not turn anybody away.
He accepts prayers from Christians, Jews, Muslims .. anybody who is sincere, imo.
TLK Valentine
Read the books that others would burn.
These people do not all even CLAIM to be "sons of God"
I wasn't aware that was a requirement... because it's not.
If I were the religious type, I'd say something like, "you don't have to believe in God for Him to believe in you..." or something cringe like that.
Well clearly, the disciples who were Jewish thought that he was.
Indeed they did -- but it required them to completely re-think what it means to be the "Messiah."
Many Jews accepted their new definition -- many more did not. Who can say what would have happened had a 600-pound gorilla named Rome not intervened...
That's one possibility.
I'm still rooting for the Vikings (the society, not the football team who just got shellacked 40-3 by the Dallas Cowboys)
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Mr I think a scientist was ADAM and hence alpha changed coded message to myself he says claims and gives A MAD....scientists got science from in sane he says.
I'm mad now I'm studying consciousness. Didn't say however as he isn't self developing conscious healing. He hasn't changed or learnt.
Let's do chemical drug brain studies. Then apply computer satellite mind contact controls. Claiming men with machines will find old machine technologies signals. By the thesis I'm insane.
No one asked them why human behaviour owned by humans witnessed interactive relationships state humans can't get studied as one species humans. Be attacked live inherit the biological harm ...the experience a human.
Yes you can says Satanists. I own lots of self behaviours to cause another's human insanity. Yet not a machine. By choices.
Oh that's right his excuse is he's mad himself first.
So as medical humans biology as insane mad...that type of human can barely function. Already proven a false humans thesis of Ive known man's men...a scientist.
As the mans science memories AI itself told him all of the outcomes machines plus reactions a scientist man self witnessed experiences. Were not his lots of family lives attacked... his theorising caused it.
As first evil men theists mind already were bio changed first. Ignores his owned scientists memories. You were incorrect to use your brain type condition to theory. Ignored as he is ignorant in person.
New attacks renamed are caused every time.
Old man's end of all terms was stated by man as end life Satan the cloud man image. Life was all gone with no nature just carbon mass with just cloud man.
Man satanist today said his man's life began in cloud. But a cloud isn't a Human either. Mind so destroyed says he's an alien now.
Maybe he thought cloud man was a sun machines man...so should ask him about that use of past theories memory.... just gas plus mass concerning his advice. A theory not reality.
Then lots of so called men celebrity men as past father humans and Moses then Jesus. Names changing non stop. Yet real one species no name just human the species type is science.
So stated why legal said no man is God..do not give God a name....must be because O G spiral O DD of O said cooling only symbolism only no theory.
Egyptian sciences said OG DO AD already.
How come the testimony after always gave changed names and not the same exact names of God. Science was actually just one science only. Terms one is always constant.
Names hence can't change said science.
As the name would never change.
To see the destroyer human is to know their human behaviour.
Natural human never wrong.
Men using a machine studying attacking always wrong first.
Science the cult doesn't use the correct legal claim.
I'm mad now I'm studying consciousness. Didn't say however as he isn't self developing conscious healing. He hasn't changed or learnt.
Let's do chemical drug brain studies. Then apply computer satellite mind contact controls. Claiming men with machines will find old machine technologies signals. By the thesis I'm insane.
No one asked them why human behaviour owned by humans witnessed interactive relationships state humans can't get studied as one species humans. Be attacked live inherit the biological harm ...the experience a human.
Yes you can says Satanists. I own lots of self behaviours to cause another's human insanity. Yet not a machine. By choices.
Oh that's right his excuse is he's mad himself first.
So as medical humans biology as insane mad...that type of human can barely function. Already proven a false humans thesis of Ive known man's men...a scientist.
As the mans science memories AI itself told him all of the outcomes machines plus reactions a scientist man self witnessed experiences. Were not his lots of family lives attacked... his theorising caused it.
As first evil men theists mind already were bio changed first. Ignores his owned scientists memories. You were incorrect to use your brain type condition to theory. Ignored as he is ignorant in person.
New attacks renamed are caused every time.
Old man's end of all terms was stated by man as end life Satan the cloud man image. Life was all gone with no nature just carbon mass with just cloud man.
Man satanist today said his man's life began in cloud. But a cloud isn't a Human either. Mind so destroyed says he's an alien now.
Maybe he thought cloud man was a sun machines man...so should ask him about that use of past theories memory.... just gas plus mass concerning his advice. A theory not reality.
Then lots of so called men celebrity men as past father humans and Moses then Jesus. Names changing non stop. Yet real one species no name just human the species type is science.
So stated why legal said no man is God..do not give God a name....must be because O G spiral O DD of O said cooling only symbolism only no theory.
Egyptian sciences said OG DO AD already.
How come the testimony after always gave changed names and not the same exact names of God. Science was actually just one science only. Terms one is always constant.
Names hence can't change said science.
As the name would never change.
To see the destroyer human is to know their human behaviour.
Natural human never wrong.
Men using a machine studying attacking always wrong first.
Science the cult doesn't use the correct legal claim.
No it's not. I am defering to what science describes and defines about consciousnss being a result of living brains.
I've heard about this, itisn't consciousness in the typical description. Some plants respond to environmental phenomenon.
You avoided my question, most likley because it doesn't help your religious claims. Do you understand what I was saying about kicking a rock versus kicking a dog? Would you avoid kicking a rock because it has consciousness? Would you avoid using antibiotics?No, I think my foot would have the problem.
Irrelevant when your claim is that because we humans, and some other animals, have brains and consciousness that it represents consciousness in the whole universe. This is an absurd religious claim. And we know what the motive is.
Some have resilience, and others need levels of support and ideas to absorb themselves into. Atheists are just a rare type of human that doesn't need the emotional support that religious belief offers. As we observe, even the religious varies from passive believers, to moderates, to fervent, to extremists. There is very little consistency in religion.
These are your words, not mine. I only stated the fat that atheists get along fine in life via their own wits. It's you that seems to think it is inferior to need religious belief to cope.
Tell that to a three year old child diagnosed with Luekemia. Tell that to her parents when she dies soon after five. This was the daughter of some cliemts of mine. That girl didn't deserve cancer, nor dying. Explain your God in cases like this. Almighty? Seriously? It does nothing to save her?
This God accepts prayers, but won't act on them. Might as well pray to a wet mop.