Let’s talk about the Bible

[kjw47]

Who told you that?

Anyone who knows God, knows that is the way it works.

 

[kjw47]

@kjw47 I know one thing for sure. It is that Jesus doesn't lie.
If he really said "all authority has been given me" it means that and doesn't mean that all authority will be given him (when the governing body says so)..

Has been given is a verb form that means IS. It does not mean will be.

Is it another Bible change that needs doing?

Not a bible change--a change in your thinking is needed.

Nah.

This sounds like stuff you made up by the seats of your pants in order to justify the incongruity of your earlier responses.

I don't recall reading about any sealed "correlation" book between the books of Daniel and Revelation much less that the Governing Board had found it and was now revealing the scroll's contents through the pages of the Watchtower.

Can you source us to the Watchtower article please?

And when you get a chance, can you finally tell us when and where they found the scroll, who did the translation, and where the scroll is now? Or do your eyes glaze over my question because your mind finds a truthful answer difficult?

This is about the 3rd or 4th time I've asked. If you don't know, just say so. There's no need to make up doctrines that the Watchtower doesn't actually teach.

There is no other book. The correlation is between the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation--kind of like a key to unlock certain symbolisms.

 

[kjw47]

@kjw47 Can you or any Jehovah's Witness see that the rider of Revelation 6:2 having been given a crown can't picture Jesus because of being given a crown because the Watchtower gives a crown to all the kings?

The next time you have to persuade someone to believe it is Jesus, you need another reason.
The white horse won't work either. The reason for that is because the whole army of Heaven each rides one. Perhaps it pictures one of them. Perhaps a Judas-like person?

White horse= righteous war. Rev 6 occurs long before Har-mageddon--the war in heaven. One rider of a white horse mentioned--obviously the main rider--Rev 6=Michael--yet he gets the crown--Can you add 2+2 that's how difficult it is without twisting it all into oblivion.

 

[savagewind]

Anyone who knows God, knows that is the way it works.

I understand that Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to know God. They are allowed to know only through the governing body.

 

[savagewind]

The color white is the presence of all the light in the visible spectrum. When it enters our eyes, it stimulates all of our cone cells that God made light sensitive. Snow and clouds appear like it because almost all of the light from the sun is reflected by water (either frozen or liquid), with only a small amount of the visible spectrum absorbed. This color, in the Bible and in today's society, is typically associated with purity, things that are good, innocence, honesty, and cleanliness.

Biblical meaning of the color white
In the KJV Bible, the word 'white' occurs seventy-five times, twenty-nine of which are in the New Testament. It is the most frequently mentioned color in not only the entire word of God but also the New Testament. It is the third most referenced color in the Old Testament, behind blue (50) and red (47). The most frequent Old Testament Hebrew referencing it are laben (Strong's Concordance #H3836) and tsachor (#H6715), which refers to the color's name, chur (#H2353), which refers to linen and laban (#H3835), which means to make something white. In the New Testament, the Greek word leukaino (#G3021) means to whiten something, leukos (#G3022) refers to the color's name, and lampros (#G2986) refers to a radiant, magnificent version of the color.

White's use in Scripture lends itself to symbolically meaning righteousness (Daniel 7:9, Matthew 17:2, Mark 9:3, Luke 9:29, Revelation 1:12 - 14, 6:11, 19:8, 20:11) or pretending to be so (Revelation 6:2), or made pure (Daniel 11:35, 12:10, Psalm 51:7, Isaiah 1:18, Revelation 3:18, 7:9, 13 - 14). It also symbolizes wisdom (Revelation 1:14), holiness or dedication to God (2Chronicles 5:12, Mark 16:5, John 20:12, Acts 1:10, Revelation 4:4, 19:14) or joy (Ecclesiastes 9:8).

Meaning of the color WHITE in the Bible
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT HORSES 59 Bible verses about Horses

28Their arrows are sharp, all their bows are strung; their horses' hooves seem like flint, their chariot wheels like a whirlwind.........And if one looks at the land, there is only darkness and distress; even the sun will be darkened by clouds.

Does that sound like what Jesus will do? Darkness?

John 8:12
Verse Concepts

Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, "I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life."

John 9:5
Verse Concepts

"While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world."

Isaiah 42:6
Verse Concepts

"I am the LORD, I have called You in righteousness, I will also hold You by the hand and watch over You, And I will appoint You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the nations

John 12:46
Verse Concepts

"I have come as Light into the

world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.

Luke 1:78
Verse Concepts

Because of the tender mercy of our God, With which the Sunrise from on high will visit us

 

[savagewind]

May I be forgiven, please.

 

[Oeste]

There is no other book. The correlation is between the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation--kind of like a key to unlock certain symbolisms.

Daniel 12:4 says nothing about a key. It says a book. Is there some reason why "book" came out of His mouth rather than "key"? Literally God would be telling Daniel to shut up the words and close the key.

Did God stutter when talking with Daniel, or are you making this up as you go along?

 

[savagewind]

are you making this up as you go along?[/QUOTE]I think you should know that it is not him. The governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses are making it up as they go along. It might be the biggest and baddest scam in the history of the World.

 

[kjw47]

I understand that Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to know God. They are allowed to know only through the governing body.

View attachment 19586

Like this( Luke 10:16) exactly= Gods will

 

[kjw47]

Daniel 12:4 says nothing about a key. It says a book. Is there some reason why "book" came out of His mouth rather than "key"? Literally God would be telling Daniel to shut up the words and close the key.

Did God stutter when talking with Daniel, or are you making this up as you go along?

I guess you have no real understanding of the bible then. Few do. Only those taught by the real teachers of Jesus. There are keys( truths) in Daniel that unlock certain symbolisms spoken of in revelation.
The whole world has been watching rev 13 occur for years now. Yet few can see it--can you? We are beyond that point.

 

[savagewind]

Like this( Luke 10:16) exactly= Gods will

How do you know that Luke 10:16 isn't about the actual writers of the Bible? I think you know that Jehovah's Witnesses did not write the Bible.

Why is Luke 10:16 about the Jehovah's Witnesses and nobody else?

 

[savagewind]

If the Bible really isn't to be understood the Jehovah's Witness way, but a little one putting faith in Jesus is persuaded that it is the right way and he or she is taken off the right course for the wrong course this applies.

Matthew 18:6

The governing body is compelling its people to live dangerously and might I say unwisely.

1 Corinthians 8:12
By sinning against your brothers in this way and wounding their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.

 

[whirlingmerc]

“HEAVEN AND EARTH WILL PASS AWAY, BUT MY WORDS WILL BY NO

MEANS PASS AWAY.” Matthew 24:35 NKJV ​

Independently of people’s individual beliefs, it is undeniable that the Bible has an incredible story.

It was written over a period of at least 1,600 years by more than 40 writers from all walks of life. Some were fishermen; some were politicians. Others were generals or kings, shepherds or historians. They were from three different continents, and wrote in three different languages. They wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects yet they wrote with agreement and harmony.

But the most amazing fact about the bible is the way it survived. Most of our ancient literature has been lost due to the corrosion or destruction of the materials on which they were preserved. The Bible however, exists not only in its entirety, but in a well-preserved form, despite many efforts to destroy it.


- About 600 B.C. Jehoiakim, attempted to destroy the Word of God, but miserably failed. (Jeremiah. 36:21-32).

- In 175 BC the king of Syria, Antiochus Epiphanes, ordered the Jews, on pain of death, to destroy their Scriptures and worship the Greek gods. But Judas Maccabaeus saved the books and led a revolt that won independence for the Jewish nation. (Today, Jews celebrate this event at Hanukkah.)

- In 64 A.D. Emperor Nero not only tried to wipe out the Bible, but anyone who professed Christ. He blamed them for the burning of Rome (which, he did himself) and ordered their mass execution.

- In 303 A.D. the Roman Emperor, Diocletian waged a horrible onslaught against the Bible. Every manuscript that could be found was destroyed. Thousands, including entire families who owned any of these were martyred.

- Jerome, in 405 A.D. completed a Latin translation of the Bible. In spite of being persecuted, Jerome’s translation lived through the Dark Ages. Anglo-Saxon translations of parts of Scripture, particularly the Gospel accounts appeared in England in the 7th & 8th centuries. In 1379 John Wycliffe along with chosen scholars translated the Latin Bible into English. By 1383, thousands of copies of the Wycliffe Bible were in the hands of the English. People who owned these Bibles were hunted down and killed.

- In 1524 William Tyndale resolved to put the Bible into the English of his time and distribute it throughout the nation. But, this being contrary to English law, Tyndale had to leave England for Europe. Printing began in Cologne. Tyndale was apprehended and imprisoned. In 1536 he was strangled and burned at the stake.

- In 1546 the Roman Catholic Council of Trent placed any printing of religious literature, including translations of the Bible, under the control of the church. Any who wanted to read the Bible were told to obtain written permission from bishops or inquisitors—not an appealing prospect for those who wanted to remain above suspicion of heresy. People who dared to possess or distribute Bibles in the common languages of their region had to contend with the ire of the Catholic Church. Many were arrested, burned at the stake, roasted on spits, sentenced to life in prison, or sent to the galleys. Confiscated Bibles were burned

- French humanist, Voltaire, (1700) boastfully proclaimed, "one hundred years from now the world will hear no more of the Bible." Yet, in the year of his boast, the British museum purchased a manuscript of the Greek New Testament for $500,000 while the first edition of Voltaire's new book sold for eight cents a copy! Furthermore, fifty years after the death of Voltaire, Bibles were being printed by the Geneva Bible Society in the very house where Voltaire lived and on his own printing press!

- Even after the Reformation commenced and Bible societies were formed the Catholic Church classified them with Socialism and Communism. On December 8, 1866, Pope Pius IX made this amazing statement: "Socialism, Communism, clandestine societies, Bible societies....pests of this sort must be destroyed by all means."

Despite so much opposition, the Bible not only survived, it thrived.

The Bible has been translated into over 2000 languages. No other book even comes close.

With estimated total sales of over 5 billion copies, the Bible is widely considered to be the best-selling book of all time. It sells approximately 100 million copies annually, and has been a major influence on literature and history.


Some references:
25 Fascinating Facts About the Dead Sea Scrolls @ Century One Bookstore
The Write Journey: How Has the Bible Survived?
The Evidence Bible
The Preservation of the Bible
Miracle Of Survival Of The Bible
Manuscripts of the Bible — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Bible - Wikipedia

The Bible continues but many who own it should probably know it better and read it more

 

[kjw47]

How do you know that Luke 10:16 isn't about the actual writers of the Bible? I think you know that Jehovah's Witnesses did not write the Bible.

Why is Luke 10:16 about the Jehovah's Witnesses and nobody else?

No they didn't write the bible. They corrected it though and as well this occurred through them-Daniel 12:4)

 

[Oeste]

I guess you have no real understanding of the bible then. Few do. Only those taught by the real teachers of Jesus.

It's no wonder you believe the way you do...you're the only one who believes it!

I looked at your NWT and NOWHERE do I see the word "key" at Daniel 12:4. Obviously you are making up stories as you go along...and very bad ones at that.

4 “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end.+ Many will rove about,* and the true knowledge will become abundant. (Daniel 12, New World Translation)​

Neither can I find the fantastic and ludicrous interpretation you are giving here on the Watchtower website, nor in any of its publications.

It's pointless for you to claim you have "real" teachers when you yourself are not a "real" student of Watchtower doctrine.

Either God stuttered when he said "book" or you have gone rogue from the Watchtower.

BTW, you may want to look up the Hebrew word for "book". It does not mean "key". Quite simply it means a written document, missive, or decree.

But since you cannot tell us when and where they found the book that wasn't a book because it was a key, perhaps you could tell us when and where they found the key, who first found it, how it was sealed or encrypted, who unsealed it, what the key looked like, and how they used the key to unlock Revelation.

Lastly, since you claim to speak for the Watchtower, can you point us to the Watchtower article that confirms your analysis.

 

[kjw47]

It's no wonder you believe the way you do...you're the only one who believes it!

I looked at your NWT and NOWHERE do I see the word "key" at Daniel 12:4. Obviously you are making up stories as you go along...and very bad ones at that.

4 “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end.+ Many will rove about,* and the true knowledge will become abundant. (Daniel 12, New World Translation)​

Neither can I find the fantastic and ludicrous interpretation you are giving here on the Watchtower website, nor in any of its publications.

It's pointless for you to claim you have "real" teachers when you yourself are not a "real" student of Watchtower doctrine.

Either God stuttered when he said "book" or you have gone rogue from the Watchtower.

BTW, you may want to look up the Hebrew word for "book". It does not mean "key". Quite simply it means a written document, missive, or decree.

But since you cannot tell us when and where they found the book that wasn't a book because it was a key, perhaps you could tell us when and where they found the key, who first found it, how it was sealed or encrypted, who unsealed it, what the key looked like, and how they used the key to unlock Revelation.

Lastly, since you claim to speak for the Watchtower, can you point us to the Watchtower article that confirms your analysis.

I never said Dan 12:4 mentioned the keys. I said the book of Daniel holds certain keys to the symbolism that makes up revelation.

Like a horn = a kingdom--Thus one can decipher the 7 headed beast with 10 horns( 10 kingdoms) and the two horned beast=2 kingdoms working together. Then one can look and see they watched( rev 13) it occur for years now.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I never said Dan 12:4 mentioned the keys. I said the book of Daniel holds certain keys to the symbolism that makes up revelation.

Evidence? You prance around a lot, pretending to know what you simply believe. It does little for your credibility.

 

[Oeste]

I never said Dan 12:4 mentioned the keys. I said the book of Daniel holds certain keys to the symbolism that makes up revelation.

So where in the book of Daniel does it claim to hold "certain keys to the symbolism that makes up Revelation?"

Or is this something you just decided to make up also?

AFTER you've answered this, I'd also like to get back to the question I've asked you about 5 or 6 times already.

You stated the following:

It wasn't fixed until here in these last days( Daniel 12:4)--The new world translation fixed the errors.

No they didn't write the bible. They corrected it though and as well this occurred through them-Daniel 12:4)

​

Since Daniel 12:4 specifically tells Daniel to "shut up the words and seal the scroll", can you tell us how when and where your Organization found the scroll, who unsealed it, who translated it, what shut up words they found, what errors they found needed correcting, and where the scroll is now?

Or are you going to take everyone on your merry-go-round and tell us once again there is no scroll, but "kind of like a key", the way you did here?:

There is no other book. The correlation is between the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation--kind of like a key to unlock certain symbolisms.

I will await your reasoned response.

 

[Silverscale derg]

I don't think that was the church. It was Paul.
Which is why Christianity became so Greco-Roman. It isn't based on Jesus, it's based on Paul.
Or, to be more precise, the teachings of Jesus that the Apostles were safe sharing with Paul. Which is why Christianity has so much Greco-Roman pagan concepts like demi-gods and divine sacrifice/ Resurrection built into it.
Jesus would never have approved of all that. I am sure He is spinning in His grave over being deified by a Greek.
Tom

The bible is unlike the ones of the other gods. It sure does have hateful teachings like some ill guided gods, yahweh (the one of the bible) being one of them. He killed everyone to start a new in his book yet he's called good but when we dragons kill one sheep...one. That number one up from zero we're seen as monsters. The "god" of the bible is selfish and wants all to worship him yet he's lesser. The pagan killings were wrong, so were the witch hunts. The first commandment is not to kill but humans seem to do it all the time, so did "god"

 

[savagewind]

The Jehovah's Witnesses believe that God's holy spirit opens up the minds of the governing body to know what scriptures mean. Their excuse for mistakes and for the very long time it is taking which is over a hundred years is that God can do it only at the proper time. The "key" is God's proper time. @kjw47 @Oeste

And, there is no scroll. The scroll mentioned in Daniel is the [altered] Bible.