Let's Debate Inequality

[an anarchist]

Then capitalism is slavery.

Nuh uh.

The premise for your claim is that if we don’t work, we die. Therefore we have to work. But it is illogical I say. Death is inevitable, but in order to stave it off you have to support yourself. So you are mad at the people who enable you to support yourself…

The anger should be directed at God or Mother Nature as the claim “capitalism is slavery” relies on mortality to support the claim.

 

[Koldo]

I don’t have a problem with taxes, my disagreement was based on what you suggested on post #153 where you said someone is greedy if they have too much money and refuse to give it away

The context was taxes though. Refusing it to give it away is opposing the redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor through taxation.

So would you agree with me, that to be paid an agreed upon wage or price is fair?

No, not necessarily. But more importantly, when it comes down to this issue, I am much more worried about social issues than I am about fairness. It is much more productive to deal with the former than the latter.

Let me provide an example to further elaborate my point: Imagine someone is selling their labor for a given ammount of money. This money is only sufficient to buy food/water and nothing else (like shelter, medication, clothes, etc.). Imagine also that the employer is making a lot of money through this person's work. Is this fair? One might say so, even though I wouldn't. But more importantly: There is no dispute that this situation creates social issues. So we can skip the entire 'fairness debate' and go straight to what solution(s) we are gonna pick to solve this problem.

 

[an anarchist]

As long as you continue to ask idiotic question, I will continue to ignore them.

How is it an idiotic question? The concept of limited wealth is one worthy of scrutiny.

 

[an anarchist]

So we can skip the entire 'fairness debate' and go straight to what solution(s) we are gonna pick to solve this problem.

I am a man with no scruples.

If no one can accept anarchism, I am willing to hear the best possible alternative. How you go against the spontaneous nature of the market and try to control it… tell me how we can make it work, because there is a dire need to solve our social issues.

People will always support government (unfortunately) so I am willing to discuss and learn about the best possible government solutions, even if I think they are ultimately an immoral hurdle to the market.

 

[Koldo]

Nuh uh.

The premise for your claim is that if we don’t work, we die. Therefore we have to work. But it is illogical I say. Death is inevitable, but in order to stave it off you have to support yourself. So you are mad at the people who enable you to support yourself…

The anger should be directed at God or Mother Nature as the claim “capitalism is slavery” relies on mortality to support the claim.

The reason I said capitalism is slavery on that post is because the other poster was implying that if we don't keep the fruits of our labor we are living under slavery. Since capitalism revolves around people not keeping the fruits of our labor, then it follows that capitalism is slavery. I don't really agree with the premise provided by that member though.

 

[an anarchist]

The reason I said capitalism is slavery on that post is because the other poster was implying that if we don't keep the fruits of our labor we are living under slavery. Since capitalism revolves around people not keeping the fruits of our labor, then it follows that capitalism is slavery. I don't really agree with the premise provided by that member though.

Ahh, it’s sort of easy to lose context by post #300 my apologies I sort of jumped the gun on my response.

I’m reading through the thread right now and catching up.

 

[an anarchist]

Since capitalism revolves around people not keeping the fruits of our labor,

It’s the opposite though. Government redistribution of wealth is people not keeping the fruits of their labor and losing it to the government.

So I guess it follows that government control is slavery.

 

[Koldo]

It’s the opposite though. Government redistribution of wealth is people not keeping the fruits of their labor and losing it to the government.

So I guess it follows that government control is slavery.

Wages are not the fruit of your labor. It's just you selling your labor. The fruit of your labor is acquired by your employer.

 

[an anarchist]

Wages are not the fruit of your labor. It's just you selling your labor. The fruit of your labor is acquired by your employer.

The fruit of my labor is my wages because I buy what I want with my money. My apartment, my Nintendo Switch, my library of books, and my other possessions I have earned through selling my labor and gaining fruits of my labor.

 

[Koldo]

I am a man with no scruples.

If no one can accept anarchism, I am willing to hear the best possible alternative. How you go against the spontaneous nature of the market and try to control it…

It happens all the time. The market is being constantly manipulated.

tell me how we can make it work, because there is a dire need to solve our social issues.

People will always support government (unfortunately) so I am willing to discuss and learn about the best possible government solutions, even if I think they are ultimately an immoral hurdle to the market.

There isn't a silver bullet that is going to solve all social issues.

 

[an anarchist]

The fruit of my labor is my wages because I buy what I want with my money. My apartment, my Nintendo Switch, my library of books, and my other possessions I have earned through selling my labor and gaining fruits of my labor.

@Koldo I work restaurants. The employer can keep the literal fruits of my labor. What am I gonna do with hundreds of dishes of food? I’d rather the fruits of my labor be money, not the literal result of my labor.

 

[an anarchist]

There isn't a silver bullet that is going to solve all social issues.

If that bullet is aimed at government as a concept… perhaps it would work.

 

[Koldo]

The fruit of my labor is my wages because I buy what I want with my money. My apartment, my Nintendo Switch, my library of books, and my other possessions I have earned through selling my labor and gaining fruits of my labor.

No, the fruit of your labor is what you produce/generate through your labor. Your employer keeps that for themselves and in exchange for that you are given your wage.

 

[an anarchist]

It happens all the time. The market is being constantly manipulated.

And government provides the function in which big companies can get away with manipulation of the market through “regulation”. It is not good for the economy or the poor, to make this relevant to the OP.

 

[an anarchist]

No, the fruit of your labor is what you produce/generate through your labor. Your employer keeps that for themselves and in exchange for that you are given your wage.

And I am glad for it. Like I said, I don’t want the literal results of my labor. I’m a cook. Give me money.

 

[an anarchist]

And this is why wealth is subjective, @Koldo . My employers values the food I cook more than the money they give me, and I value the money they offer more than my time it takes to cook the food. So it’s a win win because wealth is subjective therefore it being limited is a logical impossibility.

 

[Koldo]

@Koldo I work restaurants. The employer can keep the literal fruits of my labor. What am I gonna do with hundreds of dishes of food? I’d rather the fruits of my labor be money, not the literal result of my labor.

The literal fruits of your labor have value, and you are nearly always being paid less than that when you sell your work for wages (although sometimes more). Thus why it doesn't make sense to say that wages are equivalent to the fruit of one's labor.

 

[Koldo]

If that bullet is aimed at government as a concept… perhaps it would work.

Why do you think so?

 

[Koldo]

And government provides the function in which big companies can get away with manipulation of the market through “regulation”. It is not good for the economy or the poor, to make this relevant to the OP.

Companies would still get away with manipulation without regulation.

 

[an anarchist]

Why do you think so?

I view government as a parasite on an economy that would naturally and spontaneously exist absent of a government system or State of any kind. Perhaps this is the thread for elaborating on this.