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Let's not talk about the Big Bang

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Now there's proof???
Again, words have multiple definitions. If you are talking about the legal standard of "Proof beyond a reasonable doubt" then yes, there is "proof". But scientists do not like that term for good reasons. They demand evidence. Something that no creationists seems to be able to supply, even though the rules are the same for both sides. You know that creationists are pseudoscientists because they refuse to follow the scientific method. The few times that they have they have had their *** handed to them. So now they avoid testing their ideas as if tests were the Devil himself.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Now there's proof??? You the movie and sci-fi books are proof???? lol, probably you think so. Bye for now. I am so glad I heard from you guys, thank you so much. Yes, I still like Richard Feynman, his ideas, while leaning on what "science" told him, was honest enough in his attitude and many of his statements.
Apparently your so much into yourself that you put your own perspective into other people.

Stick with facts. Not project your personal fantasy into what other people are saying.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Apparently your so much into yourself that you put your own perspective into other people.

Stick with facts. Not project your personal fantasy into what other people are saying.
Your facts may not be true. I'm being generous when I say that. You'll call wrong assumptions and dates etc., facts. Like it's been said, "new discoveries" can overturn what was accepted as factual. Thanks for conversation. Bye for now. You've all "proved" to me that so much of what is posited and conjectured is a lie, a fabrication, a madeup hoax. Anyway, have a good one.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Your facts may not be true. I'm being generous when I say that. You'll call wrong assumptions and dates etc., facts. Like it's been said, "new discoveries" can overturn what was accepted as factual. Thanks for conversation. Bye for now. You've all "proved" to me that so much of what is posited and conjectured is a lie, a fabrication, a madeup hoax. Anyway, have a good one.
No. You don't pay attention.

I pointed out it's based on facts. The proof is right here with us negating any sy fi allusions you may personally have.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
No. You don't pay attention.

I stated it's based on facts.
I know what you stated. That's why I spoke about "facts." It's NOT "based on facts," unless you want to say that combining elements and adding force are "facts" that prove evolution.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I know what you stated. That's why I spoke about "facts." It's NOT "based on facts," unless you want to say that combining elements and adding force are "facts" that prove evolution.
That's how atoms work. They bind and unbind and that takes energy and force.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Misrepresentation is dishonest and doesn't answer the question. I'd love to know what you thought was 'Newtonian' in my post. :) Do you think asking for experimental or observational confirmation is Newtonian in some way? :laughing:

Newton was wrong. We didn't know that until the relevant theories were tested against observation and experiment.

I take it from your empty bluster that you can't cite experimental or observational confirmation for the hypothesis you quoted? Do you actually understand the difference between hypothesis and theory?
More Newtonian Bull hockey. Not worth responding to.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Yes, quantum mechanics is well established. It is one of the best supported theories in all of science.

But that is not the issue at hand. YOUR description of what QM says is not accurate. No standard textbook in QM uses the term 'chronon'. NONE of them use the term 'quantum matrix'.

QM, as currently understood, passes the *scientific* demands for evidence (not the Newtonian ones). And it is those demands that are being raised for your version of chronons and a quantum matrix.


Well, the current best theory, the standard model, has a continuous spacetime as the background geometry. The possibility of quantized space and time is one that arises in quantum gravity, but no theory of quantum gravity is currently testable and so none are deemed 'current science'.
Not remotely correct No continuous time/space at the smallest scale nor gravity like in our universe. Cite one source that proposes that continuous space/time and gravity as in the universe exists at the quantum smallest scale. Most research is trying to demonstrate how continuous space time and gravity can emerge from the smallest scale. Will cite sources on current research on the mergence of ti,r/space from the Quantum smallest scale
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
On a side note I have been watching far too much Star Wars this weekend. It was not only in a galaxy far far away. It is in a galaxy without relativity. Somehow light speed has to be infinite in that galaxy. There is simultaneity throughout the whole thing. Argghhhhh1!!!
 

We Never Know

No Slack
On a side note I have been watching far too much Star Wars this weekend. It was not only in a galaxy far far away. It is in a galaxy without relativity. Somehow light speed has to be infinite in that galaxy. There is simultaneity throughout the whole thing. Argghhhhh1!!!
Are sci-fi movies your basis of science?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Quantum physics or mechanics, I guess some people care as if it means anything regarding the origin of the universe. Which leads to a question -- what came first, the universe or life? Physically or mechanically. (Have a good one...)
I did not expect this question from you. Even religions say that universe came first and then life.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
I know what you stated. That's why I spoke about "facts." It's NOT "based on facts," unless you want to say that combining elements and adding force are "facts" that prove evolution.​


That's how atoms work. They bind and unbind and that takes energy and force.

And it is how molecules work...whether the molecules be organic or inorganic, it would still take energy and force.

Chemical reactions occurred with biological matters, which is called metabolism.

Metabolism works with the same principle in molecular chemistry and biochemistry, but often it require a boost from proteins, which biologists called proteins, "enzymes".

Metabolism is very for important for sustaining life. And there are number of different types of metabolism, the most common is converting food into the energy source, to sustain life.

What YoursTrue say here:

...unless you want to say that combining elements and adding force are "facts" that prove evolution.

... it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

What do combining elements have to do with "that prove evolution".

To @YoursTrue

That sentence I quoted, don't make much sense, it is gibberish. What you said about elements being "combined" and "adding force", don't prove or disprove Evolution. It is just nonsensical claim. All your statements show that you don't understand biology, you don't understand chemistry and you don't understand physics.

Can you clarify that statement, YoursTrue?

Be more specific as to what "elements" and what "force" you are talking about.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
More Newtonian Bull hockey. Not worth responding to.
Since I explicitly said Newton was wrong, you appear to be degenerating into incoherence. Ho hum.

Not remotely correct No continuous time/space at the smallest scale nor gravity like in our universe.
This is not in the current theories, only speculative hypotheses.

Cite one source that proposes that continuous space/time and gravity as in the universe exists at the quantum smallest scale.
Read any textbook on QM (or QFT).

When you study QM, one of the first examples of solving the Schrödinger equation you are likely to be given is the 'particle in an infinite potential well' problem, initially in one dimension. It illustrates the principles of solving more realistic and complex problems. It uses continuous space and time. That is what is used in all problems in QM. That is what the Schrödinger equation deals with. That is what QM is based on. Take a look at the mathematics:
ETA: And here is the treatment of a hydrogen atom, note the use of the usual continuous, spherical polar, coordinates (r, θ, φ) for space:

It's also a bit cheeky to ask for a citation considering your total failure to provide one to back up your claims as anything but hypothetical (which nobody disputes).

Most research is trying to demonstrate how continuous space time and gravity can emerge from the smallest scale. Will cite sources on current research on the mergence of ti,r/space from the Quantum smallest scale
There is, of course, plenty of research that is trying to unify curved space-time and gravity with quantum theory, and some of the proposals do indeed quantise space-time, but none of it is currently tested theory. It is all hypothetical.
 
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Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
It doesn't matter. For the time, it was an accurate enough notion. Go back to your science, which changes as things are discovered. Yes, the earth hangs on == nothing. Or maybe gravity. Who cares? You can't see gravity anyway. Bye again.

Yes, *for the time* it was accurate enough. But that isn't what we would expect of a God-given text. We would expect such a text to be correct.

And no, the Earth does NOT hang. It moves. There is no suggestion anywhere in the Bible that the Earth moves.

You probably know he had them recorded. Have a nice day, and bye again.

(in re: Feynman lectures) Yes. And once again, how much of them did you actually understand?
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Not remotely correct No continuous time/space at the smallest scale nor gravity like in our universe. Cite one source that proposes that continuous space/time and gravity as in the universe exists at the quantum smallest scale. Most research is trying to demonstrate how continuous space time and gravity can emerge from the smallest scale. Will cite sources on current research on the mergence of ti,r/space from the Quantum smallest scale

Sorry, but you are simply wrong here. Essentially ALL quantum mechanics is done on a continuous spacetime background. So pretty much *every* textbook on QM will meet your criterion.

How many textbooks do you want? Peskin a Schroder (for quantum field theory)? How about Weinberg's texts on Quantum theory (yes, the Nobel prize winner)?

To get to the 'smallest quantum scale' puts one into the realm of quantum gravity and NO such theory has been tested. That means that NO such theory is 'accepted science. It is ALL very much speculative.

And sources you cite will be *hypotheses*. I would suggest that you find some with actual data to back up the speculation. You will find that anything involving the Planck scale is pure speculation and is untestable at this time.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes, *for the time* it was accurate enough. But that isn't what we would expect of a God-given text. We would expect such a text to be correct.

And no, the Earth does NOT hang. It moves. There is no suggestion anywhere in the Bible that the Earth moves.



(in re: Feynman lectures) Yes. And once again, how much of them did you actually understand?
As much as possible. Furthermore, the Bible was written in many ways according to man's perception, or relationship with God. And vice versa. So if you don't believe it, or think it's scientifically valid and accurate, even though there is nothing in space that anyone can see that keeps the earth suspended in space without stilts or ropes, ok -- whatever you believe is what you believe. If you think your perceptions are consistent with truth and validity about the Bible -- enjoy what evolution has given you.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes, *for the time* it was accurate enough. But that isn't what we would expect of a God-given text. We would expect such a text to be correct.

And no, the Earth does NOT hang. It moves. There is no suggestion anywhere in the Bible that the Earth moves.



(in re: Feynman lectures) Yes. And once again, how much of them did you actually understand?
So would you say that God would make water systems and fliushable toilets in the desert? I'm beginning to really think your arguments are -- um -- sorry to say -- ridiculous.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes, *for the time* it was accurate enough. But that isn't what we would expect of a God-given text. We would expect such a text to be correct.

And no, the Earth does NOT hang. It moves. There is no suggestion anywhere in the Bible that the Earth moves.



(in re: Feynman lectures) Yes. And once again, how much of them did you actually understand?
Yes, it hangs in space. Just like a force would keep certain things floating. That you don't believe it is ok now with me. Maybe things will change, have a nice evening.
 
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