Philomath
Sadhaka
Then let them produce some evidence. I believe in God but I recognize and know that there is no evidence for God's existence.
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Let's Present Some Evidence ...
- Thread starter PureX
- Start date
Then let them produce some evidence. I believe in God but I recognize and know that there is no evidence for God's existence.
outhouse
Atheistically
Um, no. That is not how it works. We do have facts at hand that have to be understood.
We do have evidence for god, but that evidence only shows that Israelites used Canaanite deities and they "plural" evolved for centuries before Israelites compiled them into one deity, mirroring the cultural needs of the people who redacted previous scripture, and wrote new ones.
That is pretty much factual.
outhouse
Atheistically
Scientifically god may not factually exist, as there isn't anything to test and report.
But he surely lives in the hearts and minds of those who believe, and that is even stated in early scripture
and in my view the proper definition of faith.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
:biglaugh: You are aware that I do not accept the concept that god interacts within our universe right? Considering the fact that a being who is "outside of existence" could interact, there would be no proof of it as the very being is the same one that created the laws of physics.
You stand at a strong logical fallacy ironically
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
I am a Deist so it is the other way around. The individual who has abdoned reason would be yourself since you feel confident enoug to call yourself an anti-theist meaning you have proof god does not exist.
I would love to hear your comedy..........I mean evidence about why god does not exist.
Keep in mind your argument is made invalid before your respond.
Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
What is that evidence of? The understanding of a group of people? Or Creator of the universe?
jmn
Member
Reason as in being reasonable, or rational.
God is simply an assumption of the mind, and Intutition is contemplation of ideas used by the mind, and is independent of reason.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
Assumption, hypothesis or a highly subjective theory. Games of semantics are the common tactic by atheists to disprove god.
A Hypothesis is not considered irrational despite its lack of tested application. God is no different as you cannot to this very day disprove his existence. The usage of the concept "God of the Gaps" has been used as a negative description of god yet ironically the mockery of it is also the mockery of ALL scientific reasoning before theory and eventual application/testing has been performed.
Your argument falls flat because you are equating a concept not disproven to a delusion. We are not talking about fairies, angels or anything else as I do not believe in such things either. We are merely talking about an all powerful being who is a creative force or cause of creation.
Reason by definition is the ability to justify an event and by using god you are justifying it. Your very usage of the word reason is misused and manipulated. Reason does include the proving of evidence or fact ironically. It merely means to "assume" as a result of a conclusion(being us).
The fact you cannot play the awful game of semantics properly is sad though as it is the only argument an atheist has. :biglaugh:. No proof at all whatsoever,
You have no proof of a god not existing so by your own definition your are illogical and stand in the middle of a circular argument. I told you before you started you were going to fail and do so on your own accord. We have not even debated scientific evidence and you fall short due to using games.
I have never understood why so many atheists yet alone anti-theists are highly illogical and provide the ideas to lead to their own failures in thinking.
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adi2d
Active Member
YOU are describing God as 'an all powerful being' who is a creative force or cause of creation'
What evidence do you have that God is a being?that God is all powerful? Or that He created anything?
Until someone has some evidence why shouldn't God be placed with faries angels and other things you don't believe in?
Just asking questions here friend.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
Being a Deist you have to keep in mind the word god yet alone angel is not "magical" to us as it appears to be. Most Deists do not even use the word God.
A Fairy? Any unknown small creature with wings. An Angel? Perhaps an inter-dimensional being?
The Deist does not find "holy" meaning to the things you perceive as spiritual. So forget the concept of religion and god the father and Zeus. We are only talking about a conscious being that dwells beyond our existence and is merely responsible for bring our universe into existence along with every other and closer itself outside of this loop. Keep in mind anything as a result of its existence can be assigned to this being since it is the first cause so it is aware yet at the same time beyond our definition of it. Remember that according to most theories the laws of Physics will be different if there was another universe present. So this being would exceed past ALL possible physics which are incomprehensible to us. This being does not give a crap about what you do, he does not care, he does not think about you and purely is nothing but a highly creative being who just brings everything into existence.
Deists do not believe that this universe is random nor the result of the constant arrangement of molecules. The universe is beyond vast for even billions yet alone trillions or even quadrillions of years of particle assimilation to create anything with any sort of harmony. Things are not harmonious entirely as it is it seems also. The mathematical odds of this occurring is.......
1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
being multiplied by itself.
Deists believe there was intended order for this to occur and it all came from a singularity as such a being who can will something into existence would never need to go back and tinker with his creation as any event it would make would be different with each outcome even if the same laws of physics were applied to a multitude of universe they would all be one atom different at least. So this "god" is just a creative being that ripples existences into effect spontaneously (this is my conclusion). Existence itself is something that to me is needed to be eternal. Imagine all of existence just not existing. Imagine not a black emptiness but nothing. Literally nothing, no color, no lack of color, no lack of anything. The lack of lacking anything is what we are referring here to. Such a thing is not even comprehensible to the human mind. Our very concept of such a thing does not even exist, any void in this universe has a "blank template" to replace it. Something has to be eternal and something has to actually have the will to do so and the laws of physics do not 'exist' in non existence. So for an action to occur such as the expansion of a dense singularity this would not be possible if there was a state of non-existence as no Mover exist. No thermal, no nuclear, no explosions, no freezing and no kinetic energy. Scientist make the mistake of placing existential physics before existence! If you were to say something is eternal it would contradict the very factor that we are here now so no eternal event starting from infinite can occur as the start of infinite is as long as its end which is infinite, hence the name. No end result would occur as you would have one massive singularity of existence. Do you believe that the world existed forever? I hope not.
I am not using the God of the Gaps as the basis for the "knowing" of their being a god but I am using it as a basis of the odds of their being a god. So take this information into an agnostic perspective of sorts. This only leads me to believe the likeliness of a god (remove fairies, Yahweh, Allah, and Zeus out of the equation) is relatively higher then the likeliness of their not being a god or created universe.
Also you do not have to perceive this being as god. Most Deists just say Prime Mover (no affiliation to Optimus Prime). The word God means much more then what it should mean in modern times. So technically I do not believe in a god, at least in a normal sense.
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outhouse
Atheistically
You have to read the reply I posted, and then understand that "facts" part.
Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Though we're not talking about a specific group's understanding of God; we're talking about God. Usually considered the source of our existence. So, naturally it doesn't make sense to limit the evidence, which as pointed out, must include what God is supposed to be responsible for.
Facts.
outhouse
Atheistically
LOL
By who exactly!
God doesn't exist scientifically, so you must be talking about untrained theist that have blind faith in that "source".
I'm sorry but faith isn't evidence, and no deity is looked at as a source for our existence. less YEC and they don't have a dog in any fight regarding anything scientific.
Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Usually by definition. LOL!
Not to mention, faith is only mentioned here by you and science, not me or any evidence. Young Earth Creationism is also something you threw into the conversation unecessarily. What does a young Earth have anything to do with what I've said?