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Let's see if we can define 'Islamophobia'.
- Thread starter stevecanuck
- Start date
Argentbear
Well-Known Member
Should we be comparing your "Not Islamopobia" to the biblical command that those of different religions are to be slaughtered?
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
All of the usual deflections, especially whataboutism, will be ignored.
Argentbear
Well-Known Member
So you want different standards applied to you and yours.
InChrist
Free4ever
Where is that biblical command?
Argentbear
Well-Known Member
Luke 19:27 “But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.”
Exodus 22:20 "“Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed."
2 Chronicles 15:12-13 They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, shall to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
Deut 13:13-15 Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.
Deut 13:7-12 If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.
Deut 13:2-5 Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.
InChrist
Free4ever
Thank you.
The first verse in Luke is part of a parable concerning future judgment. It is not a command for anyone to kill those of other religions at present or at all.
The remainder of the verses you listed were commands given specifically for Israel, for a specific purpose, and for a specific time period.
All verses and passages of the Bible must be read in context considering..who, what, where, when and why they were written or else you come up nonsensical conclusions.
Finally, Jesus Christ said …
You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Matthew 5:43-45
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
Strawman. Off-topic. Stupid deflection. Opps, that's three strikes.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
You have yanked this completely out of context. The statement is made by a fictitious character in a parable. It has nothing to do with slaughtering people of other religions.
This refers to Israelites. It is not a command to go out into the world killing everyone who is not a monotheist.
You continue to make the same error several more times.
Argentbear
Well-Known Member
Well I suppose that makes it all right then.
So you don't follow any of the laws of the Old Testament?
Argentbear
Well-Known Member
Yes that is what you did in post number 3. But how about addressing what was posted?
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
In all fairness, most Christians don't, nor do they claim to. They usually adopt the ethics lined out in the New Testament. Now, some of the New Testament laws duplicate what was written in the Torah. That's why it can appear that a Christian is picking and choosing which parts of the Torah to follow, which really isn't what they are doing at all.
Argentbear
Well-Known Member
So what is all the fuss about the recent passing of laws regarding the display of the 10 commandments in public schools?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
There are certain Christian denominations who claim they observe the 10 commandments. Let me make two remarks.
First, there are 613 commandments in the Torah, not ten. These denominations feel that these ten are special because unlike the rest of the Law, they are universal. And all but one of these laws are repeated in the New Testament. This is especially true of Catholics and Evangelicals. And that is exactly why Evangelicals want the ten commandments on the walls of schools, because they see them as universal, and underpinning all of western ethics.
As to the rest of the 613, you almost never find a Christian who observes the kosher dietary laws, the ritual purity laws, circumcises their boys (except for reasons of hygiene), observes the festivals, keeps the laws of tzitzit, etc.
Second, with only a few exceptions, these denominations to NOT keep the 10 commandments because they do not rest from work on the seventh day. However, they have their justifications, and that is something you need to address with them.
InChrist
Free4ever
I’m fine with dropping the off topic conversation and getting back to your OP…
“Islamophobia - "All Muslims are terrorists."
Not Islamophobia - Acknowledging that verse 9:111 tells Muslims to fight, kill, and be killed in exchange for Allah admitting them to heaven.”
I have no quibbles.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
No quibbles. I have zero confidence in your capacity to address the question without prejudice.
Where is said in the Bible that people of different religions are to be slaughtered?
Wrong. That is Islamophobia distorting the meaning of that verse by asserting that "they" refers to all Muslims both then and now. And it's Islamophobia because it ignores other Surah (ChaGPT: Is there a discussion of how to interpret the differences in the Quran between Surah At-Tawbah - 111 and Surah Al-Anfal - 61 Provide references if so
Surah At-Tawbah (9:111) and Surah Al-Anfal (8:61) in the Quran present distinct but related messages within the broader context of jihad and peace. The difference between these verses is often discussed in terms of the conditions and contexts they address, which are key to their interpretation.
Surah At-Tawbah (9:111) is often referred to as emphasizing the concept of a binding contract between Allah and the believers, where Allah has "purchased" the lives and wealth of the believers in exchange for Paradise. This verse is generally understood to underline the duty of the believers to fight in the cause of Allah, even to the point of sacrificing their lives. The verse reflects a period during which the Muslims were engaged in significant military campaigns, particularly during the Expedition of Tabuk, and were called upon to demonstrate their commitment to the faith through physical struggle.
Surah Al-Anfal (8:61), on the other hand, emphasizes the importance of seeking peace when the enemy inclines towards it. This verse was revealed during a different context, specifically around the time of the Battle of Badr, where Muslims were granted permission to fight but were also encouraged to pursue peace if the enemy was willing to do so. It suggests that Islam values peace and reconciliation, provided that it is genuine and not a tactic for the enemy to regroup and attack again.
These verses are often analyzed together to understand the balance in Islamic teachings between the necessity of defending the faith and the preference for peace. Scholars argue that while Surah At-Tawbah calls for readiness to fight in the path of Allah, Surah Al-Anfal reminds believers that the ultimate goal is peace and that war is not the first resort but a response when peace is not achievable(
If you're interested in a deeper exploration of these verses, you might look at classical tafsirs like those by Ibn Kathir, which discuss the historical context and the nuanced differences between these directives.
Tafsir Surah At-Tawbah - 111 - Quran.com
Read Ma'arif al-Qur'an for Ayah 111 of Surah At-Tawbah
Surah At-Tawbah - 1-129 - Quran.com
This Surah is known by two names -- At-Taubah and Al-Bara'at. It is called At-Taubah because it enunciates the nature of taubah (repentance) and menti...
Tafsir Surah At-Tawbah - 111 - Quran.com
Read Ibn Kathir (Abridged) for Ayah 111 of Surah At-Tawbah
At-Tawbah - Wikipedia
I don't bother defining the term for myself because I don't find it useful.
Clinically speaking, a phobia is a type of anxiety disorder characterized by persistent and intense fear of something that is beyond the ability of the distressed individual to control. It's a mental illness, somewhat akin to the physical illness called allergies, that may or may not require professional treatment depending on how often the condition comes up in their day-to-day lives.
But that's not how the term "phobia" is used colloquially. For some reason, it's a word that gets used in place of what to me are more accurate ones - prejudice or bigotry. Prejudice and bigotry are motivated by a wide variety of factors, with fear (phobia or otherwise) being only one of them. I find X-o-phobia to be a misnomer. I'll just call prejudice prejudice.
Clinically speaking, a phobia is a type of anxiety disorder characterized by persistent and intense fear of something that is beyond the ability of the distressed individual to control. It's a mental illness, somewhat akin to the physical illness called allergies, that may or may not require professional treatment depending on how often the condition comes up in their day-to-day lives.
But that's not how the term "phobia" is used colloquially. For some reason, it's a word that gets used in place of what to me are more accurate ones - prejudice or bigotry. Prejudice and bigotry are motivated by a wide variety of factors, with fear (phobia or otherwise) being only one of them. I find X-o-phobia to be a misnomer. I'll just call prejudice prejudice.