Let's Talk About Arthurian Legend

[JustGeorge]

I've learning just how different the knight stories are from different pieces of literature.

Anyone have a favorite knight?

 

[mangalavara]

I've heard good things about The Mists of Avalon.

I severely misread what you wrote there as ‘I have just Googled about the Misfits of Avalon.’

 

[JustGeorge]

I severely misread what you wrote there as ‘I have just Googled about the Misfits of Avalon.’

Misfits of Avalon...

I bet a few of us RFians would get written in there.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Arthur's tomb at Glastonbury Abbey.


I found this on utube. An intro.

View attachment 96587

I've visited Glastonbury, Tor and Abbey and much of the surroundings in 1990 when I took a motorhome around England, Wales & Scotland. I love it there, and wish I could come back. Sadly, I wouldn't make it back up the Tor -- but there's tons and tons of wild blackberries around, just for the picking.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I've learning just how different the knight stories are from different pieces of literature.

Anyone have a favorite knight?

Lancelot was a pretty easy one. He was still flawed but kept true to Arthur the best that he could. After him it would be Tristan for me if I remember correctly, but it has been a good fifty years since I read the various classics.

 

[JustGeorge]

Lancelot was a pretty easy one. He was still flawed but kept true to Arthur the best that he could. After him it would be Tristan for me if I remember correctly, but it has been a good fifty years since I read the various classics.

I'm finding Lancelot in this tale quite relatable. Human. Good at things, excellent at things, the best, even... but he focuses mostly on his flaws and failings.

 

[Jedster]

I've visited Glastonbury, Tor and Abbey and much of the surroundings in 1990 when I took a motorhome around England, Wales & Scotland. I love it there, and wish I could come back. Sadly, I wouldn't make it back up the Tor -- but there's tons and tons of wild blackberries around, just for the picking.

Yes, I go black berry picking with a 2 minute walk from where I live. I used to climb the Tor regularly, but I have 76 year old back which just says NO.

 

[osgart]

I am reading The Once and Future King(T.H. White), and really loving it.

It seems a series of smaller stories told within a greater one, often told in such a way it gets a person pondering life's greater mysteries. Every bit of the world is alive in these(as I feel it already is, even if we forget to acknowledge it).

There are elements of both Christianity and the religions before it, blending at times to create something uniquely beautiful, and clashing at others(as differences are sure to cause such).

Do you enjoy Arthurian Legend?

What do you know about it? What would you hope to know about it?

I saw Camelot with the great actor Richard Harris as King Arthur at the local city theatre as a boy. I sat right in the front row. I remember being very upset at Lancelot, and feeling very sad about the Guinevere thing. I thought it was going to be a true love romance, and I felt that King Arthur actually was with his queen. I remembered King Arthur as a boy from Sword in the Stone, and towards the end of the play I had a heavy heart because I thought Arthur deserved better.

 

[JustGeorge]

I saw Camelot with the great actor Richard Harris as King Arthur at the local city theatre as a boy. I sat right in the front row. I remember being very upset at Lancelot, and feeling very sad about the Guinevere thing. I thought it was going to be a true love romance, and I felt that King Arthur actually was with his queen. I remembered King Arthur as a boy from Sword in the Stone, and towards the end of the play I had a heavy heart because I thought Arthur deserved better.

Arthur does kind of seem to get the **** end of the stick, despite being a great guy.

Why does he do it?

Why do any of us?

 

[osgart]

Arthur does kind of seem to get the **** end of the stick, despite being a great guy.

Why does he do it?

Why do any of us?

I thought it was for love and honor, and a loyalty that mattered. That's what King Arthur represented to me. Go figure that he ends up all alone and in a civil war. Maybe it's par for the course that he ended up like that. Looking back on it Guinevere admired King Arthur, but fell in love with Lancelot. And probably King Arthur didn't love Guinevere the way she desired. If you love somebody set them free is the lesson I've gotten from it. Being noble is such a lonely cause!

 

[JustGeorge]

I thought it was for love and honor, and a loyalty that mattered. That's what King Arthur represented to me. Go figure that he ends up all alone and in a civil war. Maybe it's par for the course that he ended up like that. Looking back on it Guinevere admired King Arthur, but fell in love with Lancelot. And probably King Arthur didn't love Guinevere the way she desired. If you love somebody set them free is the lesson I've gotten from it. Being noble is such a lonely cause!

In The Once and Future King, the marriage of Guinevere and King Arthur was mostly political. He was a good bit older than her, by the standards in those times. There was love, yes, but not necessary the type that sustains a strong marriage.

What gets me is that he seems so loving that he... looks the other way. He's not dumb. He knows what's going on. But, he knows why its going on, too. I just completed the chapter where its found that thousands have been spent to find Lancelot by the Queen(and King) so he can be brought home. So loving is King Arthur that he still wants his friend home, knowing full well he'll be sharing his wife again.

But yes, he doesn't get much from this... other than knowing the people around him are happy.

I so appreciate that none of the men and women here are painted as pure evil... they're all just flawed. Human.

It's a reminder that, even when we fail, we're still worthy of love and honor.

 

[Subduction Zone]

In The Once and Future King, the marriage of Guinevere and King Arthur was mostly political. He was a good bit older than her, by the standards in those times. There was love, yes, but not necessary the type that sustains a strong marriage.

What gets me is that he seems so loving that he... looks the other way. He's not dumb. He knows what's going on. But, he knows why its going on, too. I just completed the chapter where its found that thousands have been spent to find Lancelot by the Queen(and King) so he can be brought home. So loving is King Arthur that he still wants his friend home, knowing full well he'll be sharing his wife again.

But yes, he doesn't get much from this... other than knowing the people around him are happy.

I so appreciate that none of the men and women here are painted as pure evil... they're all just flawed. Human.

It's a reminder that, even when we fail, we're still worthy of love and honor.

Yes, it was rather complex. Arthur loved Guinevere, but he loved England even more. And he also loved Lancelot as a friend. He gave up his love of Guinevere for his love of England and Lancelot. In a way it reminded me of Joe Biden stepping down from his candidacy. He loves being President. He knows that he is doing a good job. But the could see that he was likely to harm the US and the Presidency so he stepped aside for the greater good. Let's hope the similarity ends there since ultimately King Arthur failed and so did his early kingdom.

 

[JustGeorge]

Yes, it was rather complex. Arthur loved Guinevere, but the loved England even more. And he also loved Lancelot as a friend. He gave up his love of Guinevere for his love of England and Lancelot. In a way it reminded me of Joe Biden stepping down from his candidacy. He loves being President. He knows that he is doing a good job. But the could see that he was likely to harm the US and the Presidency so he stepped aside for the greater good. Let's hope the similarity ends there since ultimately King Arthur failed and so did his early kingdom.

Well, everything fails eventually.

But, there's the promise that he's sleeping somewhere, waiting to return again.

Perhaps a reminder that when **** does come crashing down, it'll all get put back together again, too.

 

[osgart]

In The Once and Future King, the marriage of Guinevere and King Arthur was mostly political. He was a good bit older than her, by the standards in those times. There was love, yes, but not necessary the type that sustains a strong marriage.

What gets me is that he seems so loving that he... looks the other way. He's not dumb. He knows what's going on. But, he knows why its going on, too. I just completed the chapter where its found that thousands have been spent to find Lancelot by the Queen(and King) so he can be brought home. So loving is King Arthur that he still wants his friend home, knowing full well he'll be sharing his wife again.

But yes, he doesn't get much from this... other than knowing the people around him are happy.

I so appreciate that none of the men and women here are painted as pure evil... they're all just flawed. Human.

It's a reminder that, even when we fail, we're still worthy of love and honor.

That is definitely spot on. Seems to me that they all did their best when the unexpected events happened, and I don't think Arthur loved her the way Lancelot did. Maybe sometimes the only way to know is by actually going through the experience. A person thinks that everything is for the best until something they've never experienced happens and changes everything.

 

[JustGeorge]

That is definitely spot on. Seems to me that they all did their best when the unexpected events happened, and I don't think Arthur loved her the way Lancelot did. Maybe sometimes the only way to know is by actually going through the experience.

I couldn't agree more.

It's easy to point fingers at the adulterous couple, but unless you've lived it, how do you know how it would be? There's more to actions than just actions, there is the feelings behind them. Those are the driving force for most.

Another scenario you see this in in Arthur's tolerance of Gawaine's temper. Gawaine pulls some awful stunts(I recall him losing his temper and decapitating a woman), but Arthur understands this is due to the terrible emotional abuse and neglect on the part of Gawaine's mother, so forgives him every time(really, he doesn't even make an issue of it). It is a true virtue to love even those who seem, on the surface, a bit unlovable.

A person thinks that everything is for the best until something they've never experienced happens and changes everything.

It seems to be where we learn the most profound lessons.

We thought we had it all figured out. And then...

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes, I go black berry picking with a 2 minute walk from where I live. I used to climb the Tor regularly, but I have 76 year old back which just says NO.

Same age, same problem! I actually had a 3 level lumbar laminectomy about 10 years, but the problems have spread, and nobody wants to do another surgery in that area -- to dangerous.

 

[JustGeorge]

It occurs to me as well, I can pick out the Hindu themes of karma Yoga, and the Guru.

While Merlyn and Arthur are very close friends, Arthur was under his constant guidance. We can attribute Merlyn's complete education(moral and academic) to Arthur's success, both as a leader and as a human being.

We've noted that despite his noble character and loving manner, Arthur often has little to show for it, and his story does not end in a positive way. Its illustrated here how one should do good simply because it is good rather than worry about the fruits of their actions. This reminds me of the teachings of karma Yoga(though karma Yoga tends to be a little more devotional).

 

[Jedster]

Same age, same problem! I actually had a 3 level lumbar laminectomy about 10 years, but the problems have spread, and nobody wants to do another surgery in that area -- to dangerous.

Commiserations. I have had back problems for some years, but they always went away for a while.
Now I have acute sciatica which really has me freaked. I thought I knew what pain is!
I'm taking a high dosage of pain killers(all prescribed) plus hot baths. I can now do short walks provided I sit down on the way.
I'm seeing a specialist later this week.
Best thoughts to you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Commiserations. I have had back problems for some years, but they always went away for a while.
Now I have acute sciatica which really has me freaked. I thought I knew what pain is!
I'm taking a high dosage of pain killers(all prescribed) plus hot baths. I can now do short walks provided I sit down on the way.
I'm seeing a specialist later this week.
Best thoughts to you.

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[Evangelicalhumanist]

Commiserations. I have had back problems for some years, but they always went away for a while.
Now I have acute sciatica which really has me freaked. I thought I knew what pain is!
I'm taking a high dosage of pain killers(all prescribed) plus hot baths. I can now do short walks provided I sit down on the way.
I'm seeing a specialist later this week.
Best thoughts to you.

Nobody deserves sciatica -- there's no sin that warrants that pain. Sometimes it seems there's just no position you can be in to relieve it. I hope your specialist helps!