I wouldn't say that it is unexpected, as even in outer states a mystic can sense that a deeper more profound area exists. If not, they wouldn't be striving to reach it.
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Lets Talk About Hinduism
- Thread starter JustGeorge
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Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
So Jhana is more of a mindful path, not just opening oneself up to see what sticks? I'm being simplistic, I know, but I have the need to whittle new concepts down to the core, and then place all the shavings back in place.
Firstly, it's jnana, not jhana. Secondly, it's not a path to me, although it is to many Hindus. It's a state of consciousness to me.So Jhana is more of a mindful path, not just opening oneself up to see what sticks? I'm being simplistic, I know, but I have the need to whittle new concepts down to the core, and then place all the shavings back in place.
That calming of the mind is no small task.
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
Oops- spelling is not a strong suit of mine. I think I may be getting the gist of jnana.
Extremely true. Most folks can't sit still for more than a couple of minutes. With this style that too is an absolute necessity. The only movement recommended is when you get to the concentrating on the spine point, it may be helpful to move the spine very slightly, just to shift awareness to it. Last winter I practiced sitting still, looking at a clock after my first movement. It took about 6 months until I got to 20 minutes, and 2 out of 3 days I could sustain that. The mind, meanwhile, ran all over the place. After 50 years of being a Hindu, I finally felt a remote possibility of me being actually able to meditate.
Does any of those two words relate to "Dhyana"?
Which 2 words? If jnana is one of them, then yes. Jnana is the natural outcome of sustained dhyana (as per Saiva Siddhanta). Edited to add ... Luis, I was unfamiliar with the word jhana so looked it up. According to yogapedia it is the Buddhist equivalent of the Hindu dhyana, meaning meditation.
Only 6 months! I'd say you're doing quite well.
But that was after 50 years of off and on practice sessions. This time I got more serious. But the point is that it's tough.
Do you find it was easier to practice as you get older(more specifically, don't have little ones about)?
Yes, absolutely. I'm nearing the sannyasin stage of life, when your dharma is to withdraw. I did no sadhana or meditation for nearly 30 years of raising kids. Our eldest and youngest were 14 years apart. There is a priority to performing dharma. It was worst when they were teenagers, as besides the normal stuff, there was turmoil on some days. But it sounds like you have more of a handful than we ever did.
My oldest and youngest are 13 years apart. Kind of nice; he can help some. Right now, the big one is watching the little one in the pool so I can hover near the 10 year old.
My practice at the moment is all pretty spontaneous. Do what I can, when I can. It simply can't be any other way at the moment. I hold the Gods in my heart, think of them often and hope one day things will be different.
Thanks for the tag, @JustGeorge. Of course, I'm late to the party as usual.
Much has already been said in previous posts, and I concur with @Vinayaka's statement that jnana is wisdom gained through direct experience rather than from a book. The only thing I'll add to that is a book can offer insight into jnana yoga (the path of knowledge), but it's the actual experience that manifests the wisdom. As I said on the forum previously, scripture merely validated my own experiences.
Think of it in terms of skydiving. One can read every book and magazine about skydiving, but one won't actually know what skydiving really is if one hasn't jumped from a plane.
This is a great question, and again, I concur with what @Vinayaka said. For me, it was a spontaneous mystical experience that ultimately set me on the path. But for those who have yet to have such an experience, I would say bhakti and karma yogas are the best start, and ultimate will lead one to jnana. I would go as far as to say that bhakti yoga and karma yoga are actually a part of jnana yoga in the sense that the experiences brought about by bhakti and karma can ultimately lead to jnana.
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I don't think there are many Hindus that view the term 'pagan' as a pejorative, and Hinduism is, indeed, a pagan religion. But I want to be clear on the distinction between 'pagan' and 'Pagan,' because the terms point to two different things.I've listened to a few talks here and there about how Hinduism is basically the Paganism that survived the aggressive proselytizing and colonialism of Western monotheism. As such I tend to view it as a deeply authentic and indigenous Pagan tradition that is what we might have had in the West if ours hadn't been shattered and broken. They're a Pagan tradition that actually has unbroken continuity while we're left picking up pieces and digging for things that don't even exist anymore. You'd think that would engender some sort of jealousy but for me, it mostly just makes me sad for the indigenous and historical Paganisms of the West. And also happy that there's intact indigenous traditions that are still out there and we can learn from each other.
All that said, I've learned that many of these surviving indigenous religions really don't like the label "Pagan" and wouldn't apply that to themselves. I get it - I mean, the term originated as a pejorative in the West to describe indigenous holdouts as the Christianity was enshrined in the halls of power. Who would call themselves Pagan, anyway? It is a bit weird, even as we've tried to reclaim that label. But the parallels between the extremely wide and diverse umbrella that is Hinduism and the extremely wide and diverse umbrella that is contemporary Paganism is sure interesting. We both argue about whether (and how) diverse theological perspectives fit (or don't) within these traditions, for example.
Capitalized, Pagan points to contemporary Paganism, which is an umbrella term for revived and restructured indigenous religious practices. Lower case, paganism simply points to any religion that is non-Abrahamic.
I have yet to find any evidence of any belief system that referred to itself as 'Pagan' prior to Christianity.
Depends on the person. As I said previously, for me the initial jnana experience was spontaneous followed by years of contemplating, meditating on, and researching the experience. For others, it may come with more devotional approach. For still others, it may come through a path of right-action. Or it could come with any combination of these.
I would say it's more about mind-less. It's focusing on one thing to prevent the mind's natural inclination to jump from one thought to another, and this takes a great deal of practice; it's typically not something one just sit down and do. It's not even really letting the mind flow freely in stream-of-consciousness, either. It's more along the lines of simply being.
Would you say much of the practice is trying to trigger the experience of wisdom?
I have an aversion to any form of the word 'try.' But the idea that the practice is about trying to trigger an experience is what jnana yoga is about is popular, but in my experience, works against having such an experience.
For example, there are those that meditate waiting for something to happen or trying to make something happen, and that distraction is likely to counteract any sort of mystical experience from happening.
Just a "it happens when/if it happens" kind of thing?
I asked my Guru about this once. I asked, "Are there any hints for telling whether something is intuition, or just extraneous thoughts, like wishful thinking, or a logical conclusion from thinking something out, for example?" His answer was direct, and to the point. "Intuition comes unbidden."