Let's talk about Islamic Sufism

[sun rise]

Given that there are non-Islamic "sufi" groups today, I thought we might focus on those groups that are oriented around Islam in one form or another. Many know a bit of sufism from the poetry of Rumi but there are many other sufis. And there are clear parallels with other personages from different traditions.

For example, I just finished watching a very nice video on al Hallaj, someone who is well known to sufis in general for his statement Ana'l haqq (I am the Truth) and what is still extant of his poetry and statements. Many think he was executed for saying "Ana'l Haqq", but the video discusses the circumstances of his life and how those words are likely to have been received at that time. The video presents what is known of his life, who he studied with, his travels, what is known biography and so forth.

This poem from the video is about "fana", annihilation of the lower self, nafs,

 

[jhonsteve111]

What are some Islamic Sufi groups beyond the well-known poetry of Rumi, and how do they connect to spiritual figures in other traditions?

 

[JustGeorge]

I hadn't known there were non-Islamic ones. I thought they were all Islamic.

I always think of the Whirling Dervishes.

 

[sun rise]

What are some Islamic Sufi groups beyond the well-known poetry of Rumi, and how do they connect to spiritual figures in other traditions?

There are many - the vast majority I know nothing about. Wikipedia has a list: List of Sufi orders - Wikipedia Qadiri, Suhrawardi, Madariyya, Kubrawiyya, Qalandariyya, Chishti and Naqshbandi are the main ones. Some initiate only Muslims but not all, specifically the Chishti order especially in India

I'm most familiar with the Chishti order which traditionally was present in Afghanistan to India. Hazrat Inayat Khan was in the Chisthti lineage. He wrote the following, an excerpt from "The Freedom of the Sufi". I know that not every sufi would hold the same viewpoint because Inayat Khan had a universalist focus:

The Sufi shows his universal brotherhood in his adaptability. Among​

Christians he is a Christian, among Jews he is a Jew, among Muslims he is a​

Muslim, among Hindus he is a Hindu; for he is one with all, and thus all​

are with him. He allows everyone to join in his brotherhood, and in the​

same way he allows himself to join in any other. He never questions, "What​

is your creed or nation or religion?" Neither does he ask, "What are your​

teachings or principles?"​

​

Call him brother, he answers brother, and he means it. With regard to​

principles, the Sufi has none, for sweetness may be beneficial to one and​

harmful to another. Thus it is with all principles, good and bad, kind and​

cruel. If we ask a soldier to be merciful during the battle, he will at​

once be defeated. This shows that everyone has his own principle for each​

action or situation. One person may believe in a certain principle, while​

another may hold quite a contrary opinion. What one person may call good​

another may call bad. One says a certain path is the right one, while​

another takes the opposite direction. The Sufi, instead of becoming​

centered in his likes and dislikes and limiting himself to a certain faith​

or belief, reasoning out right and wrong, focuses his view on that of​

another, and thus sees the reason why he believes and why he does not, why​

something is right to one and wrong to another. He also understands why​

that which is called good by some people may be called bad by others, and​

thus by keeping his point of view under control he arrives at the true​

height of wisdom."​

 

[JustGeorge]

There are many - the vast majority I know nothing about. Wikipedia has a list: List of Sufi orders - Wikipedia Qadiri, Suhrawardi, Madariyya, Kubrawiyya, Qalandariyya, Chishti and Naqshbandi are the main ones. Some initiate only Muslims but not all, specifically the Chishti order especially in India

I'm most familiar with the Chishti order which traditionally was present in Afghanistan to India. Hazrat Inayat Khan was in the Chisthti lineage. He wrote the following, an excerpt from "The Freedom of the Sufi". I know that not every sufi would hold the same viewpoint because Inayat Khan had a universalist focus:

The Sufi shows his universal brotherhood in his adaptability. Among​

Christians he is a Christian, among Jews he is a Jew, among Muslims he is a​

Muslim, among Hindus he is a Hindu; for he is one with all, and thus all​

are with him. He allows everyone to join in his brotherhood, and in the​

same way he allows himself to join in any other. He never questions, "What​

is your creed or nation or religion?" Neither does he ask, "What are your​

teachings or principles?"​

​

Call him brother, he answers brother, and he means it. With regard to​

principles, the Sufi has none, for sweetness may be beneficial to one and​

harmful to another. Thus it is with all principles, good and bad, kind and​

cruel. If we ask a soldier to be merciful during the battle, he will at​

once be defeated. This shows that everyone has his own principle for each​

action or situation. One person may believe in a certain principle, while​

another may hold quite a contrary opinion. What one person may call good​

another may call bad. One says a certain path is the right one, while​

another takes the opposite direction. The Sufi, instead of becoming​

centered in his likes and dislikes and limiting himself to a certain faith​

or belief, reasoning out right and wrong, focuses his view on that of​

another, and thus sees the reason why he believes and why he does not, why​

something is right to one and wrong to another. He also understands why​

that which is called good by some people may be called bad by others, and​

thus by keeping his point of view under control he arrives at the true​

height of wisdom."​

Wow! That really speaks to me.

 

[Spice]

There are many - the vast majority I know nothing about. Wikipedia has a list: List of Sufi orders - Wikipedia Qadiri, Suhrawardi, Madariyya, Kubrawiyya, Qalandariyya, Chishti and Naqshbandi are the main ones. Some initiate only Muslims but not all, specifically the Chishti order especially in India

I'm most familiar with the Chishti order which traditionally was present in Afghanistan to India. Hazrat Inayat Khan was in the Chisthti lineage. He wrote the following, an excerpt from "The Freedom of the Sufi". I know that not every sufi would hold the same viewpoint because Inayat Khan had a universalist focus:

The Sufi shows his universal brotherhood in his adaptability. Among​

Christians he is a Christian, among Jews he is a Jew, among Muslims he is a​

Muslim, among Hindus he is a Hindu; for he is one with all, and thus all​

are with him. He allows everyone to join in his brotherhood, and in the​

same way he allows himself to join in any other. He never questions, "What​

is your creed or nation or religion?" Neither does he ask, "What are your​

teachings or principles?"​

​

Call him brother, he answers brother, and he means it. With regard to​

principles, the Sufi has none, for sweetness may be beneficial to one and​

harmful to another. Thus it is with all principles, good and bad, kind and​

cruel. If we ask a soldier to be merciful during the battle, he will at​

once be defeated. This shows that everyone has his own principle for each​

action or situation. One person may believe in a certain principle, while​

another may hold quite a contrary opinion. What one person may call good​

another may call bad. One says a certain path is the right one, while​

another takes the opposite direction. The Sufi, instead of becoming​

centered in his likes and dislikes and limiting himself to a certain faith​

or belief, reasoning out right and wrong, focuses his view on that of​

another, and thus sees the reason why he believes and why he does not, why​

something is right to one and wrong to another. He also understands why​

that which is called good by some people may be called bad by others, and​

thus by keeping his point of view under control he arrives at the true​

height of wisdom."​

That sounds wonderful! I believe I heard that Sufi uses music/song a lot? Am I thinking correctly, or have I once again mixed things up in my memory?

 

[sun rise]

I hadn't known there were non-Islamic ones. I thought they were all Islamic.

I always think of the Whirling Dervishes.

You're thinking of the Mevlevi Order or Mawlawiyya which I believe originated with Rumi. Other groups have other practices. For example, zikr (dhikr) can be considered a form of mantra.

The Wikipedia pages lists many offshoots of sufism. And at least Idres Shah who wrote various books on sufism include "The Sufis" asserted that sufim existed before the birth of Islam under different names.

 

[sun rise]

The Wikipedia pages lists many offshoots of sufism. And at least Idres Shah who wrote various books on sufism include "The Sufis" asserted that sufim existed before the birth of Islam under different names.

That sounds wonderful! I believe I heard that Sufi uses music/song a lot? Am I thinking correctly, or have I once again mixed things up in my memory?

Music is controversial in Islam with some believing it's forbidden and others that it is OK if used for religious purposes. I'm specifically thinking of qawwali which I experienced in India and I believe might still be in Pakistan as well. This song is a classic. There's various meanings for "Allah Hu" (Hoo). The internet tells me that the meaning of "hu" is slightly different in Arabic and Urdu such as "God, just He" (or perhaps "God is One" a monotheistic statement about the nature of Allah.

 

[sun rise]

Three short Rumi poems:

Today, like every other day, we wake up empty and frightened.

Don't open the door to the study and begin reading.
Take down a musical instrument;
Let the beauty we love be what we do.

There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground."

Cross and Christians, end to end, i examined. He was not on the Cross. I
went to the Hindu Temple, to the ancient pagoda. In none of them there was
any sign. To the heights of Herat I went and to Kandhar, I looked. He was
not on the elevation not on the low lands.

Resolutely I went to summit of the fabulous mountain of Ka'af. There was
only the dwelling of the Anqa bird.I went to Kaaba at Mecca. He was not
there. I asked him from Avicenna the philosopher. He was beyond the range
of Avicenna, I looked into my own heart. In that place I saw him.

He was in no other place.

and

Come, come, whoever you are.
Wonderer, worshipper, lover of leaving.
It doesn’t matter.
Ours is not a caravan of despair.
Come, even if you have broken your vow
a thousand times
Come, yet again, come, come.

 

[Spice]

 

[sun rise]

Hafiz is another famous poet particularly in Iran where his major book has been used for divination like the I Ching He is difficult to translate - I've read some really bad translations. Danial Ladinsky took another approach by writing poems inspired by Hafiz which he called "rendering". Here's a couple:

Someone Should Start Laughing​

I have a thousand brilliant lies
For the question:
How are you?
I have a thousand brilliant lies
For the question:
What is God?
If you think that the Truth can be known
From words,
If you think that the Sun and the Ocean
Can pass through that tiny opening Called the mouth,
O someone should start laughing!
Someone should start wildly Laughing ‘Now!

and

Once a young woman asked me,

"How does it feel to be a man?"
And I replied,

"My dear,
I am not so sure."

Then she said,
"Well, aren't you a man?"

And this time I replied,

"I view gender
As a beautiful animal
That people often take for a walk on a leash
And might enter in some odd contest
To try to win strange prizes.

My dear,
A better question for Hafiz
Would have been,

'How does it feel to be a heart?'

For all I know is Love,
And I find my heart Infinite
And Everywhere!"

 

[jhonsteve111]

There are many - the vast majority I know nothing about. Wikipedia has a list: List of Sufi orders - Wikipedia Qadiri, Suhrawardi, Madariyya, Kubrawiyya, Qalandariyya, Chishti and Naqshbandi are the main ones. Some initiate only Muslims but not all, specifically the Chishti order especially in India

I'm most familiar with the Chishti order which traditionally was present in Afghanistan to India. Hazrat Inayat Khan was in the Chisthti lineage. He wrote the following, an excerpt from "The Freedom of the Sufi". I know that not every sufi would hold the same viewpoint because Inayat Khan had a universalist focus:

The Sufi shows his universal brotherhood in his adaptability. Among​

Christians he is a Christian, among Jews he is a Jew, among Muslims he is a​

Muslim, among Hindus he is a Hindu; for he is one with all, and thus all​

are with him. He allows everyone to join in his brotherhood, and in the​

same way he allows himself to join in any other. He never questions, "What​

is your creed or nation or religion?" Neither does he ask, "What are your​

teachings or principles?"​

​

Call him brother, he answers brother, and he means it. With regard to​

principles, the Sufi has none, for sweetness may be beneficial to one and​

harmful to another. Thus it is with all principles, good and bad, kind and​

cruel. If we ask a soldier to be merciful during the battle, he will at​

once be defeated. This shows that everyone has his own principle for each​

action or situation. One person may believe in a certain principle, while​

another may hold quite a contrary opinion. What one person may call good​

another may call bad. One says a certain path is the right one, while​

another takes the opposite direction. The Sufi, instead of becoming​

centered in his likes and dislikes and limiting himself to a certain faith​

or belief, reasoning out right and wrong, focuses his view on that of​

another, and thus sees the reason why he believes and why he does not, why​

something is right to one and wrong to another. He also understands why​

that which is called good by some people may be called bad by others, and​

thus by keeping his point of view under control he arrives at the true​

height of wisdom."​

Thank you so much for sharing this information with me. It has been incredibly helpful, and the Wikipedia link really made a difference. It helped me easily find more details about the Sufi orders, which I’ve been wanting to learn about. I appreciate your support!

 

[sun rise]

One tremendous difference between the fanatics like the Taliban and Islamic sufism concerns women. One of the famous sufis in history is Rabia. She is given an Islamic honorific and is written about in flowery terms. Given her place in the history of sufism, the post is extensive. Must of the following is taken from this source:

The Knower of Allah, Rabia al-Adawiyya, may Allah be pleased with her​

​

Rabia is rightly considered to be one of the most famous of the people of the Sufi Path of Islam. She reached a high degree in its knowledge. Her profound, subtle, and detailed insight into the heart was sought after by a number of the great Sufis of her time. If we look back to the end of the first century of the hijr, we see that people had begun to be increasingly drawn into the material world with its competitiveness and corruption. Their faith was declining and asceticism had almost disappeared.​

​

One famous story states that she was captured and sold into slavery. She was freed after her owner saw this:

One night her master, the merchant, heard her praying and talking, and got up and went to see what she was doing. What he saw and heard filled him with amazement. Rabia was praying and prostrating in the darkness, but above her head was a lamp floating freely in space, giving her its light as she repeated the words: “O my Lord, you know that my heart only longs to obey You, for the light of my eye is under Your service. If I were able to, I would not stop one moment calling upon You, but You have left me under the mercy of a cruel being from Your creation.”​

​

Full of fear and apprehension, the merchant left her door, and in the morning called her to give her back her freedom. This was how Rabia was freed from slavery.​

Then the stories of her life differ. We once did a play where Rabia is sold into a brothel. The madam in this version was overcome with her holiness and Rabia's home in the brothel became a prayer hall where men visited her for high spiritual purposes and not carnal ones. There is nothing but legends here:

From this time the stories of Rabia’s life take on different variations. Some say that she worked by playing the nay in dhikr circles; others say that she took to the path of human desires drowning herself in the seas of sin, and then turning in repentance to Allah in worship, prayers and reading the Qur’an.​

The story of the thief and Rabia is one that I've heard before, but this is a longer version:

One of the stories related about Rabia, may Allah be pleased with her, and her blessing tells of how: “One day a thief entered her house and looked around her room, but could not find anything to steal except a water jar. He was about to leave when Rabia said to him, ‘Do not go away without taking something.’ The thief was surprised by her words and replied, looking around him, ‘But there is nothing here except this water jar. What should I do with that?’​

​

“Rabia said, ‘Take the jar, and go into that room and make ablution, and then pray two raku’ and you will leave with something.’​

​

“This was the first moment of light in the thief’s life, and he did what Rabia told him to do. He took the water jar, made ablution, and then stood up to pray.​

​

“When Rabia saw him standing there, she realized that Allah’s Mercy would make him repent. She raised her hands to the heavens and said, ‘O Master and Lord, this man came to my door, but he did not find anything with me, so I have let him stand at Your Door. So do not deny him Your Mercy.’​

​

“Then she looked at the thief to see what was happening to him and what effect the prayer would have on him. She was happy to see him absorbed by his prayer until the dawn came. He tasted the sweetness of belief for the first time and felt something of intimate conversation. He was like a sick person who has suddenly been cured of a dangerous illness. He felt goodness and healing in his whole body, and felt its beauty and its sweetness.​

​

“This was the case of the thief who had entered Rabia’s house bringing with him his devil who had been whispering evil into his self, but Allah’s Mercy took him away from his evil clutches.​

“When Rabia went to him at dawn she found him in prostration and in bitterness and sorrow saying, ‘If my Lord would not have said to me, are you not ashamed to disobey Me? You hide the sins of My creation, and you come to Me in disobedience. Then what strength would I have when He chastises me and punishes me?’ Rabia asked him, ‘How was your night?’ The thief answered, ‘Good. I have stood before my Lord in my lowliness and insignificance, and He has accepted my excuse, and has healed my wounds and has forgiven me my sins, and He has given me what I have asked of Him.’​

​

“Then he left Rabia’s house, but with another heart than the one he had entered with, and another self than the self he had before he met Rabi’a. He was completely changed, as if he had been reborn. The thief in him had died, and for the first time sorrow for the time he had lost had taken him over.​

“Rabia lifted her hands to the heavens and said, ‘O Master, O Lord, this man stood before Your Door for one night, and You accepted him. But I have been standing before You since the moment that I first knew You, have You accepted me also?’​

​

“Rabia was called to, ‘O Rabia, because of you We accepted him, and because of you We brought him close.’​

​

“She then bowed her head to the ground in shame before Allah, and said, ‘How can I explain my thanking my Master and Lord for what He has felt to honor me with? I am the weak creature. Does she deserve all that blessing from her Generous Lord?’​

​

“Then she stood up to pray, and tears ran down her cheeks in thankfulness.”​

There's a couple classic short poems I've taken from other sources. The first states that desire for paradise and fear of hell are low motives not worthy of a true lover of God.

If I adore You out of fear of Hell, burn me in Hell!​

If I adore you out of desire for Paradise,​

Lock me out of Paradise.​

But if I adore you for Yourself alone,​

Do not deny to me Your eternal beauty.”​

I've quoted another of her famous sayings on RF about the lack of value of miracles especially being a show-off:

One day Hasan AlBasri saw Rabia near a lake. He threw his prayer rug on top of the water and said: "Rabia come! Let us pray two rakat here."​

​

She replied: "Hasan, when you are showing off your spiritual goods in the worldly market, it should be things which your fellow men cannot display."​

​

She then threw her prayer rug into the air and flew up onto it saying: "Come up here, Hasan, where people can see us."​

​

Then she said: "Hasan, what you did, fish can do, and what I did, flies can do. But the real business is outside these tricks. One must apply oneself to the real business."​

 

[JerusalemBull]

strange

 

[JustGeorge]

strange

What's strange?