Let's Talk About the Stanford Swimmer Rapist

[idav]

... and that is if we are being generous. Rape is one of very few crimes for which I think an argument could be made that capital punishment is justified.

Well they do belong with the violent offenders, murderers etc.

 

[idav]

Quick synopsis: a young lady allegedly drank a little more than her body was used to and ended up losing consciousness. According to the news stories, two witnesses approached the Stanford swimmer while he was sexually assaulting the young woman while she was noticeably passed out. The judge sentenced the rapist with 6 months in jail followed by probation. The judge deemed a harsher punishment would be too detrimental to his future. Here is the letter the victim wrote and released to the public:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbak...ad-to-her-ra?utm_term=.bvdpj41npZ#.tavvl6OVv5

Aside from the judge's leniency, the rapist's dad wrote a letter in response, claiming his son is now depressed and no longer enjoys snacks and a good steak. He also claimed that the 6 month sentence is still too harsh, as is being on the sex offender list... all for "20 minutes of action" out of his "20 years of life".

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/0...anford-swimmer-sentenced-for-sex-assault.html

We have a rape culture in the US, and pathetic protection for sexual assault victims. This whole thing is beyond disgusting, and I believe it sets women and reporting sexual assault back about 50 years. The father is as guilty as the son, and in some ways, worse. He should be in prison next to his pathetic excuse of a man, his son.

How can anyone feel empathy for him? What about her? I'm sure she's devouring a good ribeye as we speak. *sarcasm emoji*

Yeah that fruit, the son, certainly didn't fall far from the tree. Sounds like the kid was raised to take an extremely lax view of womens rights. I think sexism is a big issue with that but I like to think those type of guys have been going extinct. I hate stories like this that make it look like the whole of our culture is going backwards. Probably the same dads encouraging their kids to haze and bully the weakest in their football teams.

 

[suncowiam]

Yeah that fruit, the son, certainly didn't fall far from the tree. Sounds like the kid was raised to take an extremely lax view of womens rights. I think sexism is a big issue with that but I like to think those type of guys have been going extinct. I hate stories like this that make it look like the whole of our culture is going backwards. Probably the same dads encouraging their kids to haze and bully the weakest in their football teams.

Why is there an assumption that dads are encouraging their sons to do bad things?

You based that on this one incident?

 

[ChristineES]

I was totally disturbed by that young man only getting 6 months, for his father's letter about his son being depressed without any thought that his son harmed another person and had no compassion for her. I am getting really bummed out about what's happening to our justice system.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I say this as a rape victim myself while I was drunk (raped by a woman in case ur curious). She didn't protect herself. She made a foolish, irresponsible decision to get wasted and ended up in the hands of a predator. Both men and women need to drink more responsibly lest they fall into the hands of scum like Brock

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Now now, what about suspicion towards male survivors? (Kidding)

Yes, I get your point. It's the scenario I'm confused with actually. Whether the victim was female or male, I would have the same confusion. I mean by "it doesn't matter" is that whatever was hidden, if there's any, and this time I add maybe even by the report, still does not change what that rapist deserves, a serious sentence.

Honor touching crimes should have serious judgements on their own. They are in a league of their own than other crimes.

The quote about male survivors is not as funny as you might think. I am a rape survivor myself, raped by a woman while I was drunk. I can assure its no laughing matter

 

[Smart_Guy]

The quote about male survivors is not as funny as you might think. I am a rape survivor myself, raped by a woman while I was drunk. I can assure its no laughing matter

I'm really sorry you had to go thru such an experience. God bless.

 

[Kapalika]

I'm guessing the rapist's parents are wealthy.

Basically what I said earlier. I think this has more to do with wealth and privilege than rape culture. The rich are often accustomed to getting off the hook. I even gave an example of a rich kid who drunk drove and killed 3 people and got no jail time.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I was totally disturbed by that young man only getting 6 months, for his father's letter about his son being depressed without any thought that his son harmed another person and had no compassion for her. I am getting really bummed out about what's happening to our justice system.

Speaking as a depressed person, depression should never be a get-out-of-jail-free card for treating someone badly; let alone as monstrously as what this guy did.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I say this as a rape victim myself while I was drunk (raped by a woman in case ur curious). She didn't protect herself. She made a foolish, irresponsible decision to get wasted and ended up in the hands of a predator. Both men and women need to drink more responsibly lest they fall into the hands of scum like Brock

She shouldn't need to protect herself. Guys like Brock should exercise restraint when making conscious decisions. Why are you placing the onus for maintaining self-control on the victim but not the attacker?

 

[Flankerl]

One cannot have sexual relations when the other isn't even aware...

Uh that is wrong.

Somnophilia is a Paraphilia of the sexual attraction of unconscious people. It comes in an active and passive variant. Some people want to do unconscious people while there are other people who want it to be done with them while they are unconscious.


People are fun aren't they?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The question remains, why are we as a culture so hesitant to punish a rapist?

Because the 'we' is far too indifferent to a cultural legacy of contemptible male chauvinism.

 

[roger1440]

@Smart_Guy, I have yet to hear of a rape chase where the accused didn't use the "the victim consented" argument. The fact that she was unconscious when he was assaulting her trumps all anyway. One cannot have sexual relations when the other isn't even aware...

What would you call sexual intercourse when one partner is unconscious?

 

[idav]

Why is there an assumption that dads are encouraging their sons to do bad things?

You based that on this one incident?

Cause of the fathers own words and no indication that they would want to steer the conversation toward the victim. "my son was bright and strapping, now he's depressed" You think, people feel remorse but probably isn't allowed to feel that either.

 

[idav]

Because the 'we' is far to indifferent to a cultural legacy of contemptible male chauvinism.

^^This, and my countries less chauvinist than most

 

[suncowiam]

Cause of the fathers own words and no indication that they would want to steer the conversation toward the victim. "my son was bright and strapping, now he's depressed" You think, people feel remorse but probably isn't allowed to feel that either.

You're speculating that the father's statement is evidence to suggest that his upbringing had sexist influence on the son.

I would agree with that speculation but we should admit to ourselves that it's still speculation.

As far as the comment concerning fathers (plural) and their football sons (plural)... I really see no basis for that.

You could be correct but frankly you could very wrong.

I understand this verdict is disliked with most off us. My wifes truly hates it. I disagree with it, but we should be prudent about how we label broader concepts like an entire culture from one incident.

I'm all ears if folks can state how the legal process in the US is systematically enabling a rape culture. There's enough evidence to believe a rape culture exists in India and parts of Africa.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I understand this verdict is disliked with most off us. My wifes truly hates it. I disagree with it, but we should be prudent about how we label broader concepts like an entire culture from one incident.

One incident? Seriously? On what planet do you reside?

 

[suncowiam]

One incident? Seriously? On what planet do you reside?

Cite your references please. Why do you think I'm asking and frankly, I was asking politely.

So yes, inform me to why you believe the way you do.

BTW, I live on the same planet you do.

[Edited] What planet do you live on since you're so inclined to ask this question? Are you implying something with this question?

 

[columbus]

One incident? Seriously? On what planet do you reside?

Yes, one incident.
Seriously.

That is what this thread is about. One incident.

On the planet I reside on I don't much trust this sort of story. I know perfectly well that everyone actually involved has reasons to lie, dissemble, and misreport. So I don't trust the the conclusions drawn by people who weren't there and have their own axes to grind.

Tom

 

[SkepticThinker]

The disconnect I have in this thread is my general distaste for punishment. Perhaps deserving to be its own thread, but seeing that we're on a religious forum (though general debates specifically), I guess I think it is part of what is debatable. Why have this in debates area at all? Are we waiting for that one hypothetical person to come along and say, "man, that swimmer was so cool. I think he did the right thing?"

Yet, from the OP:



All of this strikes me as one big appeal to emotion, and seemingly ignores the idea that punishment was served. From such hyperbolic logic, one might think if the swimmer got 500 years in jail, there would be people saying he got off lightly, he clearly deserves 1000 years in jail! Given the strong emotions of anti-rape culture, I truly don't understand how any punishment would help any victim. With all the things brought up about her life going forward, how would it (truly) help for anyone, including her, to know he is being punished? Say he did get 1000 years in prison, or death penalty, would this then make her life significantly better going forward?

I'll also perhaps never understand a comment that concludes "the father is as guilty as the son, and in some ways, worse. He should be in prison next to his pathetic excuse of a man, his son." Apparently, we now live in a society where if offer any support / excuse to illegal actions, you deserve to be in jail, and (as the OP is statement is asserting) is actually worse that the crime itself. Put that into perspective, and let your critical thinking rest with that a moment.

As noted earlier (bringing up B. Clinton), it is how anyone can excuse this. Or how many people do. We have an abundance of illegal things occurring all around us, with 2 presidential candidates clearly accused of wrong doing yet still the presumptive nominees of their party, and highly likely one of them becomes next POTUS. Apparently, all squeaky clean candidates aren't people we can readily get behind. Dems have ample opportunity (or had it up till today) to get behind a squeaky clean candidate and apparently are doing all they can to get that person out of the race so the presumptive nominee can focus on the general election. You wanna play hardball with your emotions around rape culture, then let's play hard ball and look at the larger culture. Otherwise, rape culture type rhetoric is one big appeal to emotion that essentially says put away your critical thinking skills and you best shut up lest you be deemed just as guilty (or worse) as that rapist we are talking about.

IMO, if empathy is truly being called forth, it would apply to all people. In this case, him and her. Not pit sides and essentially reinforce rape culture logic.

I do (barely) understand persons who have 100% empathy for her and barely to no empathy for him. But I lose understanding / support for that when punishment of any sort is deemed 'not nearly enough' for the crime. 6 months in jail is seemingly not deserving any empathy, and thus treated as "if you think that's okay, there is something inherently wrong with you." I think 6 months in jail would absolutely suck, thus do think he's serving his time. I don't see how this will assist her in any way going forward with her life. Is it the knowing that her assailant is in prison and can't get at her anymore, type logic? While also acknowledging that she is still living in the realms of rape culture in the U.S.? I mean how much is that rape culture lessened by him being in jail? Significantly? Or closer to no discernible difference, at all?

In my spiritual understanding, it (rape culture) actually grows by the desire to make sure he is punished. To make sure punishment does its (dirty) job and keeps people in check. That strikes me as very similar to core value of rape ideology and yet ought to never ever be explored lest we wish to have the whole guilt thing pointed at us. Heaven forbid that occurs. Yet the lust for punishment continually shows up as a type of lust. And the best thing I can say about it, is that it comes off insane and irresponsible. Helpless as long as we let it go unexplored. Pathetic if we keep promoting it as if this will now make things better for everyone.

When I was in college I was in similar position to the swimmer, well up to a point. Met an upperclass female student (grade ahead of me) at a party who was visibly drunk when I arrived. For whatever reason she gravitated to me. Kept making sexual innuendos, touching me and what I would identify as leading me on. Then made it a point at least twice to have me take her back to her dorm. Leaning in trying to kiss me, ya know, to seal the deal. Admittedly, I was a bit flattered by all this, but mostly like 'you are way too drunk for me to believe you actually care, even a little bit, about me.' So, I take her back to her place which takes awhile cause she's stumbling drunk and can't remember where she lives exactly. Was kind of fun for me, cause she's trying to maintain a sense of sobriety while hanging onto me like I'm her dear boyfriend. When I get her to her dorm room, I get her into her bed and then.....(drum roll).... tuck her in and wait for her to pass out. Shut off the lights in her room and leave. Where's the nobility in that? I mean given the beliefs we have about rape culture and males being predators, wouldn't I deserve trumpets blaring and red carpet treatment for being a gentleman? Or how about a thank you from her? Got neither. A male friend who knew her (and adored her) couldn't fathom how I wouldn't take advantage of the opportunity served up to me on a silver platter. I realized the next day she was the 'it' girl in that grade, and that I somehow made a mistake in not getting with her the previous night. I took it then as I do now, she was way too drunk for intimacy in way I deem worthwhile. I don't think she ever spoke to me again after that night. I'm not sure she even remembered me being with her.

I bring this up a) because doing the right thing seemingly has no benefit at all. No guy patted me on the back for being a gentleman, and if anything kinda had their confirmation that I wasn't a manly man like them who probably would've done more than than the nothing I did. And b) because I think anyone looking at my situation above can see the role that alcohol had on the situation. IMO, to downplay that down to having little to no impact on the entire situation seems highly deceptive. If a person is able to get themselves to a place where sleeping near a dumpster makes sense, then clearly alcohol is a very significant factor in their situation that night. And given my experience, it is plausible to me that she was possibly (out of her mind and) hitting on him endlessly before she passed out, and then he did what I think many guys (but not all) might do in that situation.

But let's lump all rapist type into one big homogenous whole and treat them the same regardless of circumstances. Having zero understanding for the (so called) predator and hyperbolic sympathy for the (so called) victim. Such that assertions like the following can be made:



Let's downplay any notion of this guy getting caught, being assessed a punishment, and that clearly the woman is not on her own, nor technically ever was in the situation. Let's of course not blame the alcohol she chose to ingest. In fact, let us completely ignore that and treat it as completely incidental in what occurred. Instead, let us focus our sights clearly on him and the idea of punishment, and the more the merrier. Let us lust for that punishment and accuse anyone that would dare defend him as deserving of even greater punishment. Let our lust for punishment reign supreme.

And then let us ask, for the umpteenth time, how is that rape culture persists in our society? And let us hope there are no mirrors around when we ask such things.

I don't know if you've ever been raped, but let me tell you, it is a violation that stays with you for a lifetime. I still have nightmares and I get pretty severe and unpredictable panic attacks that show up out of no where.
Six months in jail for a rapist doesn't seem like anything close to justice, to me. Especially considering what a rape victim must live with.