LGBTQ

[Argentbear]

As mentioned before, the LG&B is about who you are sexually attracted to, the T is about who you are;

Lesbian, gay bisexuality is about who you are

and there are plenty of LG&B who disagree with the T, especially when it comes to issues like the Lea Thomas story where males are competing in female sports.

Citation?

 

[Argentbear]

Indeed, and was I pointing at anyone specifically? I was not. IF the shoe doesn't fit...

"I do not start out slurring other posters, as you've just done here"

 

[Argentbear]

You need to learn what "slur" means. And as for misgendering, no one "owns" our language, and I will not have my speech compelled.

and you are not being compelled. You are free to say any falsehood, hate based or transphobic thing you would care to say. But saying certain things have consequences so when you misgender someone you will get called on he carpet for it.

As for safety (and you forgot privacy and respect issues), many women have been harmed by trans women. So what's your threshold? How many assaults on women by trans women is too many?

many women have been harmed by black men, is that a justification for racism?

Where would you have us draw the line? As for the personal opinions of a few folks here on RF, I don't think ANY individual's "lived experience" is all that significant when the topic is public policy.

but you just tried to make an appeal for "lived experiences" by citing all those women who have been assaulted by those evil trans people

 

[icehorse]

We still get more here than you. Amd all we do is exist. You are one of the "usual suspects" making anti-trans/trans bashing threads.

This is a debate forum. I criticize IDEAS, unless I receive excessive amounts of abuse, I do not slur posters. You should really learn the difference.

So yes, I criticize many of the IDEAS offered by trans activists. But that's NOT the same as people bashing trans people.

Except the examples are being brought up are men abusing the policy.

In the past I have offered many examples of trans women abusing women. I do not speak for other posters.

There you go again with your trans rights activist boogeyman bull****. You, and other men, keep telling women they need protected from trans. Men are less likely to be supportive and accepting of trans. But ciswomem here keep tell you and the men saying they are in danger and need protected they are actually ok with trans women. Amd women are more like to be accepting of trans.
So, yeah. It's good ole fashion patriarchal misogyny to think you must protect women from something they are saying they don't and are ok with.

I support organizations like the LGB alliance. As I said, I don't think policy should be overly impacted by individuals' lived experiences.

They're basically as good as that edited video allegedly shows a Planned Parenthood executive arranging to sell baby parts to the "investigator."
What are your thoughts on actually learning stuff amd giving up the pseudointellectual garbage that makes it obvious you're on par with a Young Earth Creationist trying to talk about evolution and biology, getting everything wrong but insisting they are very knowledgeable of science.

Well we went a few exchanges without you resorting to personal attacks, but you just can't seem to help yourself

I will close with this thought: The Cass report has been well received by top health care professionals throughout Europe. Are you claiming that all of these countries with better healthcare than the US are guilty of pseudo intellectual garbage?

 

[icehorse]

"I do not start out slurring other posters, as you've just done here"

All I'm doing is observing behaviors.

 

[Revoltingest]

All I'm doing is observing behaviors.

Oh, you do so much more.

 

[icehorse]

You are free to say any falsehood, hate based or transphobic thing you would care to say. But saying certain things have consequences so when you misgender someone you will get called on he carpet for it.

This discussion has been had many times. For your argument to make any sense you have to AT LEAST provide solid, non-curcular definitions for "gender" and "gender identity" and then you have to nail down whether a person's "gender" is fluid or not. That's just to start.

 

[Argentbear]

All I'm doing is observing behaviors.

what ever helps you sleep at night

 

[Argentbear]

This discussion has been had many times. For your argument to make any sense you have to AT LEAST provide solid, non-curcular definitions for "gender" and "gender identity" and then you have to nail down whether a person's "gender" is fluid or not. That's just to start.

what has that got to do with consequences for speech?

 

[icehorse]

Oh, you do so much more.

what ever helps you sleep at night

I observed some common behaviors on RF. These behaviors amount to debating in bad faith.

So if an individual poster does not debate in bad faith, there is nothing to be offended by, correct?

And if you feel that you debate in good faith but you're somehow offended on behalf of bad faith posters, well you're just looking super hard for a reason to be offended, correct?

 

[icehorse]

what has that got to do with consequences for speech?

The context here is that someone brought up "misgendering". So in order to debate that idea we need to understand how the poster is defining gender, gneder identity and gender fluidity.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'll add that the problem of "needing protection from trans"
isn't just from men. TERF women are just as bigoted.

As a whole when we look at stats mem are more likely to be against trans while women are more.like to be ok with them. Yes, TERFs exist, but it doesn't change overall trends.
And when speaking of here, it's overwhelmingly a handful of men who have and are insisting women need protection while ciswomen are saying no.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is a debate forum. I criticize IDEAS, unless I receive excessive amounts of abuse, I do not slur posters. You should really learn the difference.

Deliberately misgendering people is a slur.

So yes, I criticize many of the IDEAS offered by trans activists. But that's NOT the same as people bashing trans people.

It is bashing trans with your "JAQing off." And you font criticize questions, you ramble about nonsense you heard wherever, nonsense that most.often doesn't even reflect reality.

In the past I have offered many examples of trans women abusing women. I do not speak for other posters.

You've gave examples of false alarms and men abusing the system like male janitors planting cameras in women's locker rooms, etc.

I support organizations like the LGB alliance.

Yes, you've voiced you support of these fringe bigots in the past.

I will close with this thought: The Cass report has been well received by top health care professionals throughout Europe

Except your claims aren't actually true and trans care continues in Europe. We've already debunked this garbage.

The context here is that someone brought up "misgendering". So in order to debate that idea we need to understand how the poster is defining gender, gneder identity and gender fluidity.

You know what it means. This is a part of that JAQing off that was mentioned by another member.

 

[Eliana]

So because YOU have never seen it, therefore it does not exist; right? Wrong!!!
Second; I never said anything about an effeminate man. It only happened twice, and each time I’ve seen this it was someone I suspected to be a lesbian woman. The fact that each time they came out of the stall; they probably were lesbian women, but they looked butch enough to pass for a guy.

I was never rude about it; each time nobody else was there, and when I saw them I apologized thinking I mistakenly went into the ladies room, turned around and headed for the door; and he said it was the men’s room and that he was a guy

No it didn't happen, and I'm flat all calling bull pucky. I used to be a professional model and I met an unbelievable amount of LGBT people, as that industry attracts them like flies to honey. No man, unless he is doing so on purpose, could ever pass for a woman no matter how effeminate. If they could, there wouldn't be such things as facial feminization surgery. If he IS doing it on purpose, he/she wouldn't be using a men's room if they passed that well. You are a homophobe and obviously so.

You keep moving the goal posts and modifying your claims when someone points out their highly illogical and unlikely nature i.e. "Oh it only happened a couple of times, yeah that's it".

In addition, you are not a woman and we didn't ask you to take up the cause of our spaces. I am an Orthodox Jew and we don't allow LGBT, and even then I still couldn't care less if they use women's bathrooms or lockers. I'm not watching them and likely they aren't watching me, because most people aren't predators or perverts. In the rare and unlikely scenario that someone (gay, trans or straight) were behaving inappropriately in a locker or club they'd be reported and kicked out. Easy peasy.

I probably didn’t think it was worth answering, however if you ask again, I will be sure to respond to whatever point you were trying to make

I bet you didn't, because I was dead right about you and you know it. When people are caught dead to rights they either ignore or dismiss. I don't need to post it again, you presumably have a functioning mouse and can go back.

 

[icehorse]

Except your claims aren't actually true and trans care continues in Europe. We've already debunked this garbage.

I think your claims are incorrect here. Of course SOME forms of trans care continue in Europe, as they should. But WPATH's SOC has been sharply curtailed.

Let me make this simple for you. In Europe the conclusion is:

- talk therapy is good
- the dangerous, ineffective, irreversible medicalization of kids with gender dysphoria is bad.

And once again, I'm simply forwarding the conclusions drawn by top medical authorities in Europe, so your fight is with them, not me

 

[icehorse]

You know what it means. This is a part of that JAQing off that was mentioned by another member.

I'm aware that people pretend to know what gender and gender identity and gender fluidity are. But what we've seen many times on this forum is that when pressed, good definitions are not forthcoming.

I didn't bring "gender" into this discussion, someone else did. But as long as apologists use the term, I will continue to ask for definitions.

Why isn't that fair?

 

[icehorse]

In addition, you are not a woman and we didn't ask you to take up the cause of our spaces. I am an Orthodox Jew and we don't allow LGBT, and even then I still couldn't care less if they use women's bathrooms or lockers. I'm not watching them and likely they aren't watching me, because most people aren't predators or perverts. In the rare and unlikely scenario that someone (gay, trans or straight) were behaving inappropriately in a locker or club they'd be reported and kicked out. Easy peasy.

Sorry to butt in here but...

You seem to be criticizing law in general here. Most people aren't murderers or thieves or whatever, we have laws to stop the bad guys. You've already admitted that there ARE some trans women who are bad, why shouldn't we have laws to protect women against them as well. It's called safe guarding and we do it all the time.

 

[Argentbear]

I observed some common behaviors on RF. These behaviors amount to debating in bad faith.

So if an individual poster does not debate in bad faith, there is nothing to be offended by, correct?

And if you feel that you debate in good faith but you're somehow offended on behalf of bad faith posters, well you're just looking super hard for a reason to be offended, correct?

do you think your post is in good faith?

 

[Argentbear]

The context here is that someone brought up "misgendering". So in order to debate that idea we need to understand how the poster is defining gender, gneder identity and gender fluidity.

that is a red herring

 

[icehorse]

do you think your post is in good faith?

I do, do you disagree? And if you disagree, why?

that is a red herring

How so? How can you accuse someone of "misgendering" if you can't define "gender", "gender identity" and "gender fluidity" ?