[LHP only] LHP obsession with the "you're not LHP" jerk-fest

[Mindmaster]

Mostly, that's what every LHP thread seems to dissolve into these days, and it's just adult aged children thinking they can silence others by yelling louder (or in the case of forums) talking more than the other guy. Let's clear it up for some newer folks (and by newer, I mean people under 30):

1) LHP is not an identity. You are doing stuff on that path, or you are not. The only person that knows whether you are walking in that direction ultimately is you. But, you are faking it if you have to come here and trash-talk people with some false sense of superiority. The LHP is about a real manifestation of one's goals, not walls of text, or tearing other people down. Neither I, nor anyone else truly following such a path with give you credit for anything other than mental masturbation in this case.

2) Fact bombing from supposed authorities is a logical fallacy called an appeal to authority. It doesn't improve your position in an argument, but even if it did it would accomplish less than nothing. Other people don't care if you are right or wrong, they're worried about their own ****. See Backfire Effect. If you were truly intelligent and and as wise in LHP as you say, you'd be aware of this inability to convert people aggressively to your ideas and take a hike.

3) Arguing with people for the sake of arguing is just revealing the pathetic little masochist you are. Your authenticity is immediately suspect because you do not hold a fondness for others attempting to succeed on the LHP it's all about YOU. Personally, I am happy if others in my presence are learning and sharing together -- as well as succeeding. If you don't feel this way you probably have missed the point of the LHP - liberation. That freedom is the impetus for success for us as a species, not just in a personal way.

Anyway, just some peeves/rants. I realize this is sort of a debate-y subject, but I posted it here to keep the responses productive. Thoughts?

-M

 

[crossfire]

I would like your opinion on this: if LHP is all about liberation, than wouldn't it follow that the more extreme practices taken would either be an indication of a state of extreme slavery (which requires extreme measures to free oneself from,) or a general state of unskillfulness (overcompensation for lack of skill?)

 

[AnnaCzereda]

Arguing with people for the sake of arguing is just revealing the pathetic little masochist you are.

It's a pity you don't appreciate a vigorous debate. I like arguing for the sake of arguing. I did it many times. It's an intellectual exercise, which is also an opportunity to learn some new information and also improve your debating skills. I also love the drama because it lets you post some witty retorts directed against your opponent in a debate. Come on, it's fun.

The LHP is about a real manifestation of one's goals, not walls of text, or tearing other people down.

True, but the internet is not for manifesting one's goals. Everyone has some life apart from the internet for better or worse. That is largely beyond the scrutiny. This is not life, this is just a forum. You come here for a discussion. Sometimes, it's friendly, at other times not so much. If someone thinks you're posting nonsense, they can call you out on this. Then you will have to back up your claims. That's the crux of a debate.

You don't like it, fine. To each their own but I find it entertaining.

 

[Mindmaster]

I would like your opinion on this: if LHP is all about liberation, than wouldn't it follow that the more extreme practices taken would either be an indication of a state of extreme slavery (which requires extreme measures to free oneself from,) or a general state of unskillfulness (overcompensation for lack of skill?)

It can be difficult to say, but I think reflexively I'd tend to agree with this line of thought in a few ways. There are many people who are flirting with the LHP in denial of how basic they are, but the more normal your life is the less you are resisting the status quo. It seems those are going to be the types that spout off first, mind you. Especially if their field in their professional life is giving advice to others in some way as those are the worst know-it-alls ever. I think the surest indication that someone masters something is that they apply exactly the forces to the situation required to cause the intended result. For example, using the case from my earlier post when you are attempting to argue something with someone even though that method is certain to fail due to the Backfire Effect. You could have done it in a non-threatening way rather than going for the jugular and actually made your point. You just affirmed your lack of skill in the matter, you just advertised you were a scrub, and I certainly won't trust your analysis or information at that point. It's not the other parties fault that you picked the inferior method of communication and even your intelligence is questionable at that juncture. Every time I see this sort of posting, I basically decide that the intended result is to discredit other people and if someone is overly focused on that they're not focused on the topics at hand. They're just a parasite basically...

It's a pity you don't appreciate a vigorous debate. I like arguing for the sake of arguing. I did it many times. It's an intellectual exercise, which is also an opportunity to learn some new information and also improve your debating skills. I also love the drama because it lets you post some witty retorts directed against your opponent in a debate. Come on, it's fun.

It's intellectual when all of the participants are feeding the vibe that develops a greater understanding of the subject. It's not really useful when it breaks down to some sort of glorified cat fight. If the subjects of the posts in a thread diverge into rants about various members or their beliefs it's just a lot of tit-for-tat. Nothing useful will come into the conversation from there on... I also don't feel that you really can "challenge" someone's beliefs on an online medium because most of us form our notions based on personal experience. I doubt that is really different between you and I, even though what those beliefs are certainly can diverge greatly. I think to simplify it - it certainly is non-LHP to expect others to conform with your expectations of what the LHP is. (I realize, this is somewhat ironic of a statement, bear with me...) So even in this post, realize I don't expect others to live up to my expectations but rather take a moment to see if their actions are congruent with the forum aims and act accordingly.

 

[crossfire]

It can be difficult to say, but I think reflexively I'd tend to agree with this line of thought in a few ways. There are many people who are flirting with the LHP in denial of how basic they are, but the more normal your life is the less you are resisting the status quo. It seems those are going to be the types that spout off first, mind you. Especially if their field in their professional life is giving advice to others in some way as those are the worst know-it-alls ever. I think the surest indication that someone masters something is that they apply exactly the forces to the situation required to cause the intended result. For example, using the case from my earlier post when you are attempting to argue something with someone even though that method is certain to fail due to the Backfire Effect. You could have done it in a non-threatening way rather than going for the jugular and actually made your point. You just affirmed your lack of skill in the matter, you just advertised you were a scrub, and I certainly won't trust your analysis or information at that point. It's not the other parties fault that you picked the inferior method of communication and even your intelligence is questionable at that juncture. Every time I see this sort of posting, I basically decide that the intended result is to discredit other people and if someone is overly focused on that they're not focused on the topics at hand. They're just a parasite basically...

I'm sure there are some people who have some extremely sensitive and painful areas in their psyche that they rigorously defend that will give a backfire effect no matter how cautiously you approach the subject. Would you say the practice of announcing "trigger warnings" in regards to anything that might cause a backfire effect is effective? "Trigger warnings" have also come to be associated with being called a "Snowflake," which might only aggravate the situation and the backfire effect even more.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[Iti oj]

In can be lhp if I want to was the basic dir philosophy when I joined the dir

 

[Mindmaster]

I'm sure there are some people who have some extremely sensitive and painful areas in their psyche that they rigorously defend that will give a backfire effect no matter how cautiously you approach the subject. Would you say the practice of announcing "trigger warnings" in regards to anything that might cause a backfire effect is effective? "Trigger warnings" have also come to be associated with being called a "Snowflake," which might only aggravate the situation and the backfire effect even more.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Generation Snowflake is endlessly amusing, but anyway I find some humor in their criticisms. I mean, some of us here have been involved in the LHP longer than their lives. Most of us old dogs are interested in learning new things, but we haven't seen any - yet -. It's the same old arguments with a few new faces... I give 'em a shot, but the chance that someone who can count their LHP years on one hand is going to educate me on anything isn't likely. I just try to smile and nod, like your mother would do when you told her something she's known for twenty years.

 

[Adramelek]

Mostly, that's what every LHP thread seems to dissolve into these days, and it's just adult aged children thinking they can silence others by yelling louder (or in the case of forums) talking more than the other guy.

Oh, hell... I have experienced this on this DIR over the 7 + years I've been a member. I really no longer feel the need to convince anybody of anything. I just simply state my opinion on a certain subject -- take it or leave it. I do not know how many times I have argued with others here on any given subject, however, there are a very select few who began as enemies, but through our many debates, we have managed to become very close friends. We still have differing opinions and individual understandings, which is natural, healthy, and good, but we also recognize we are on the same path and have similar quests in the great Work of Life.

Xeper and Remanifest.

 

[Onyx]

I don't really see this as a "jerk-fest". LHP'ers are very opinionated, and the skins should be thick enough by now to deal with that fact.

 

[Quintessence]

*** thread moved to Same Faith Debates ***​