LHP overview

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't really see those rules cropping up much. The problem with worship is people think it implies dogma. I can see ways it can be LHP. It's a dirty word FOR ME personally and others simply because a main aspsect of the LHP for us is not relying on outside forces.

And who came up with that declaration? Or is that just a personal view you have?

 

[ScottySatan]

I think it's interesting that you seem to reject the original meaning of the Left Hand Path. Originally, it was an Indian concept denoting those who make use of socially and religiously proscribed practices to reach whatever spiritual goal they had. A think a lot of what we think are Left Hand Path beliefs and practices are really quite new and I'd like to know who it was that made up all these new rules for it.

Apparently, you can't worship anything other than yourself. ("Worship" is a dirty word amongst many in the modern Western LHP and that's one of the reasons why I call myself a Devil worshiper.) Some would say that you can't believe in God(s) outside of yourself. You can't seek union with a cosmic Source or God. You must be elitist and detest the weak. Etc.

All of these are rules, and who made up these rules? According to the original definition of LHP practices, a big part of it is breaking taboos. But when you make a rule, you've created a taboo.

My definitions of lhp came initially from hinduism, we must have read different things. Later stuff on lhp in my definition, paticularly on the core emphasis of the ego and self awareness in the lhp was more refined by Edward Carpenter.
Pagan and Christian Creeds Index

That was written in 1920. He refers to it as "sin" or "original sin", not LHP.

As far as the worship thing goes, I don't think it's worship that's taboo, it's really self sacrifice and/or placing something on a pedestal higher than one's self. I'm going to drop the name you were probably waiting to hear, it probably originated or was popularised in the good ol' Satanic Bible.

Bringing up the worship thing again in response to me here I think was misdirected. Again, I'm calling the essence of LHP to be the ego, not rejection of gods. The ToS, for example, I'd say is extremely left.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

My definitions of lhp came initially from hinduism, we must have read different things. Later stuff on lhp in my definition, paticularly on the core emphasis of the ego and self awareness in the lhp was more refined by Edward Carpenter.
Pagan and Christian Creeds Index

That was written in 1920. He refers to it as "sin" or "original sin", not LHP.

As far as the worship thing goes, I don't think it's worship that's taboo, it's really self sacrifice and/or placing something on a pedestal higher than one's self. I'm going to drop the name you were probably waiting to hear, it probably originated or was popularised in the good ol' Satanic Bible.

Bringing up the worship thing again in response to me here I think was misdirected. Again, I'm calling the essence of LHP to be the ego, not rejection of gods. The ToS, for example, I'd say is extremely left.

Thanks for the info on Carpenter. Don't think I've heard of him before.

To me, it seems like what the Left Hand Path is is pretty subjective. Personally, the essence of the LHP is individual spiritual freedom, eschewing dogma and organized religion and social convention. But then that's my own emphasis. At the end of the day, it really just seems like another dichotomy, an "Us vs. Them" thing (which I guess is funny for a Satanist to say). I understand needing to define ourselves but a lot of times it seems a waste of time or meaningless. Or maybe I've just seen too many narrow-minded and ignorant self-professed LHP-ers spout off at the mouth (or keyboard, rather).

Blah. I feel like I'm falling into randomness here.

 

[ScottySatan]

To me, it seems like what the Left Hand Path is is pretty subjective. Personally, the essence of the LHP is individual spiritual freedom, eschewing dogma and organized religion and social convention. But then that's my own emphasis. At the end of the day, it really just seems like another dichotomy, an "Us vs. Them" thing (which I guess is funny for a Satanist to say). I understand needing to define ourselves but a lot of times it seems a waste of time or meaningless. Or maybe I've just seen too many narrow-minded and ignorant self-professed LHP-ers spout off at the mouth (or keyboard, rather).

Blah. I feel like I'm falling into randomness here.

It's subjective. I once tried objectively measuring religion with lasers, but it failed and the priest got so mad I couldn't get him to hold still any more.

I don't think LHP vs. RHP comes up a lot, only here because it's the name of the forum.

Anyway, do read that Carpenter paper, it's extremely good. the whole text is in that link.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It's subjective. I once tried objectively measuring religion with lasers, but it failed and the priest got so mad I couldn't get him to hold still any more.

I don't think LHP vs. RHP comes up a lot, only here because it's the name of the forum.

Anyway, do read that Carpenter paper, it's extremely good. the whole text is in that link.

Lol. Thanks. I'll take a look at it.

 

[1137]

And who came up with that declaration? Or is that just a personal view you have?

It's definitely a view I hold, though to me I see the LHP and paths that required reliance on external forces for worship, symbolism, morality, etc as mutually exclusive. I suppose one could worship an entity with no control over their symbolism, morality, etc but that would be pointless in my opinion.

 

[1137]

I also don't see ego gratification as LHP. Or I guess I'd say that as a Luciferian it's certainly not about the ego specifically. Everyone is about the ego, everyone is entirely selfish, so it seems rather silly that people would say the LHP is about ego. Christianity is the most egotistical religion I can think of.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It's definitely a view I hold, though to me I see the LHP and paths that required reliance on external forces for worship, symbolism, morality, etc as mutually exclusive. I suppose one could worship an entity with no control over their symbolism, morality, etc but that would be pointless in my opinion.

I guess that's just one of the prime differences between an atheistic and theistic follower of the LHP. Although theists in the LHP don't tend to view their Deities or relate to them in the same way that Abrahamic religions do. I think the varying concepts of how theists believe in and relate to their Gods is often missed.

 

[Orias]

I think the real problem is that people define themselves with "atheist" or "theist", its just stupid and doesn't hold any merit when concerning the metaphysical.

 

[1137]

I think the real problem is that people define themselves with "atheist" or "theist", its just stupid and doesn't hold any merit when concerning the metaphysical.

Agreed, an occultist who picks sides tends to fail. Besides this, agnosticsm is the only things that makes any sense.

 

[Orias]

It may be contradictory, but my beliefs aren't defined by what I believe, they're defined by what I know about myself.

Mind just got blown

 

[ScottySatan]

I also don't see ego gratification as LHP. Or I guess I'd say that as a Luciferian it's certainly not about the ego specifically. Everyone is about the ego, everyone is entirely selfish, so it seems rather silly that people would say the LHP is about ego. Christianity is the most egotistical religion I can think of.

Ego gratification is very far from what I said or meant. I use the word ego here as an abbreviation for self and individuality. I'm really talking about self awareness, self reliance, self preservation; as opposed to collectivism, self sacrifice. It's thought that the original sin is a parable for someone having educated themselves against the wishes of their group, who wanted them to do mundane chores for the elders instead.

 

[Orias]

Ego gratification is very far from what I said or meant. I use the word ego here as an abbreviation for self and individuality. I'm really talking about self awareness, self reliance, self preservation; as opposed to collectivism, self sacrifice. It's thought that the original sin is a parable for someone having educated themselves against the wishes of their group, who wanted them to do mundane chores for the elders instead.

Perhaps, I think most of this depends on discipline though.

Original sin is having existed in the first place.

 

[Father Heathen]

The varying beliefs regarding magic and supernatural beings aside, Isn't LHP at its core all about the sovereignty, elevation, and empowerment of the self, along with the pursuit and practice of personal freedom (indulgence) and personal responsibility (moderation)? A celebration of life and of the individual?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The varying beliefs regarding magic and supernatural beings aside, Isn't LHP at its core all about the sovereignty, elevation, and empowerment of the self, along with practicing personal freedom (indulgence) and personal responsibility (moderation)?

Yes! :yes: That's what it means to me.

 

[crossfire]

I don't really see those rules cropping up much. The problem with worship is people think it implies dogma. I can see ways it can be LHP. It's a dirty word FOR ME personally and others simply because a main aspsect of the LHP for us is not relying on outside forces.

Even so I think there is clearly a distiction between Eastern amd Western LHP.

From what I can discern, Eastern lhp focuses more on processes, holism (of the individual) and liberation, whereas Western lhp (I consider Vedic paths to be Western {Indo-European}) tend to focus more on essence rather than processes and reductionism rather than holism. Of course, this is only my opinion based upon my observations. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Your mileage may vary.

Just make that your sig already, for Satan's sake! Lol.

 

[crossfire]

Just make that your sig already, for Satan's sake! Lol.

But then I would have to get rid of this due to lack of space:

Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you. --Carl Jung​

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But then I would have to get rid of this due to lack of space:

Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you. --Carl Jung​

Too bad signature space doesn't vary. *sigh*