Liberty

[Twilight Hue]

Neither do I, but if I remember correctly, you supported Trump? A guy who wants to be dictator from day one.

Not paying attention I see. Trump never said he wants to be a dictator from day one.

Just a dictator on day one , and only for a day.

 

[Heyo]

Not paying attention I see. Trump never said he wants to be a dictator from day one.

Just a dictator on day one , and only for a day.

He said on day one.
Anyway, he wants to be a dictator. Not what I'd support as a freedom loving person.

 

[Augustus]

The liberties in the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights are pretty close to those enshrined in the English Bill of Rights a century earlier.

The US freedom and liberty schtick is very much an offshoot of 17th c British tropes about “freeborn Englishmen” with their “Anglo Saxon liberties” that derive from the (semi) mythical “ancient constitution” as opposed to the (Catholic) tyrannies of continental Europe.

The Founders rejected the authoritarian dictatorship of the English monarchy

They actually rejected the idea of parliamentary sovereignty, almost the opposite of monarchical dictatorship and the foundation stone of the “Anglo Saxon liberties” the colonials were rallying behind.

Monarchical dictatorship was what the 16th c English freedoms were opposed to.

 

[Twilight Hue]

He said on day one.
Anyway, he wants to be a dictator. Not what I'd support as a freedom loving person.

Sometimes people just don't like a good joke.

 

[Heyo]

Sometimes people just don't like a good joke.

And sometimes people don't detect humour as intended.
Trump is a great entertainer, people all around the world are laughing. Basically, he made the US the comedic relief of nations.
But sometimes, in rare cases, he is neither lying nor joking. I'm not sure whether he's lying or "joking" about becoming a dictator.
We'll see on Jan 22nd.

 

[BrightShadow]

Liberty?

Oh yeah! That magic word with multitudinous meanings. And many levels!

No one - NO ONE can claim they have absolute liberty.
Liberty is something you pursue but never fully attain.


In the pursuit of 'liberty' - you can also lose some on the way when your liberty clashes with others liberty,

My liberty to watch a good movie on the Netflix is hindered and taken away by the 'Woke' agenda pushers. They are working hard to wake me up to something I am not interested in ( ) .
They are insistently trying to convert or convince the young generation to adopt 'Woke' lifestyle while pushing them to be 'nones' (unreligious) at the same time. Yes! These two go hand in hand. Once you are tolerant - you are no longer religious because most major religions are not for it no matter how you spin it.


Now we are immune to all the nonsense. What else can they throw at us?

They tried to let biological men to play against women. They went overboard.

Do biological women have the liberty (freedom) to only compete against other biological women in their own sports, or not?

"Give me liberty or give me death". Yes - they will give you "death" alright.

 

[Foxfyre]

Sometimes people just don't like a good joke.

That one needs to be greatly enlarged, framed and hung in the homes and offices of a lot of people it seems.

 

[Foxfyre]

To some, liberty is a most cherished ideal; to others, liberty is frightening. Thomas Jefferson said, “Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.” Liberty is the guiding principle that thriving societies are built upon. When liberty is no longer valued as an ideal to strive for, societies devolve into authoritarian rule cheered on by the people that espouse liberty but have no idea what that means or what it demands of them.

Almost everyone you ask will say they are for liberty, they support liberty, but people mean different things by the term liberty. Some believe liberty is being free to do what you want with what you produce within a peaceful and civil society. Others believe liberty is being free to do what you want with what other people produce within a peaceful and civil society. The former is true liberty, and the ladder is fake liberty and will ultimately end up in authoritarian rule. When you tie your liberty to what other people produce, you are denying the other person liberty and history shows the demands of fake liberty get more and more on others in society denying more and more of their free choices.

Why should we value liberty? Because we all have a duty to be happy and you cannot be happy without experiencing true liberty. Every person deserves true liberty just by the fact that they were born. We all have one fragile life that can end at any moment. The universe is around 13 billion years old; we live at max 120 years. We live a brief period of time, and that fact makes our lives precious and something that should not be wasted by others ruling over us or demanding by force we do things we do not want to do. But we know that most people in the history of mankind were not born into liberty but into some form of slavery or authoritarian society that limited or downright denied them liberty. Liberty is something most people yearn for but some look to limit it for their own gain. When liberty is denied someone, it is always for the fraudulent but real benefit of someone else. It usually benefits the few and denies liberty to many.

All governments conceived to try to maximize liberty, will eventually slide toward authoritarianism in some form if the people governed do not keep vigilant and fight against attacks on their liberty. This is done in many ways by government promising peace or safety in exchange for part of your liberty. It keeps chipping away until enough liberty is taken by the government to effectively be an authoritarian government controlling most of what you can and cannot do in a society. Liberty demands of us to be vigilant, express our concerns and even fight if necessary to keep our liberty.

In the U.S., where I live, the best way to keep our liberty is to understand what liberty is and what the founding documents say and don’t say. To understand why the founding documents are written as they are, the reasons behind our protected freedoms especially free speech, freedom of the press and freedom to assemble. It is important we know and teach our children why we have separated powers and the role of the federal government as stated in the constitution etc. We need to be able to challenge each other’s ideas without retribution or harassment and push back on our elected officials when they promote policies that limit our freedoms.

Liberty is a fragile thing and most civilizations have not been pro liberty but have been some form of authoritarian setup. This is the nature of people, and it takes character and work for leaders in government to keep from seeking power for power’s sake. Liberty is worth fighting and sacrificing for. History shows it is the bold and courageous people that have preserved liberty for the next generation, not the timid and weak.

“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.” ~ Ronald Reagan​

You edited the age of the universe in your post I see but you didn't need to do that.

You spent some time writing a thoughtful and detailed post and it is interesting, somewhat amusing, a bit frustrating that the only thing some focused on was the age of the universe which bears pretty much zero relevance to the rest of the post. You originally likely used a new study done by the University of Ottawa that roughly doubled the the age of the Universe, and your critics are using the first number they see when they quickly googled that. So I'll be nitpicky too and say the new study says 26.7 billion years instead of 26 which of course negates everything else you said. (Honestly the nitpickers never cease to amaze me on the internet.)

You and I are close to being on the same page here re liberty. But in my reading of the founding documents and the core history of how the United States came about, liberty to an informed American is the right to live, think, believe, speak, hope, want, care about whatever we want short of violating another's right to do the same. Our central government was instituted and intended to be a government of, for and by the people that protected our unalienable right to liberty.

But you are right that liberty is a fragile thing when those with power in government presume to tell us how we must live, what we are and are not allowed to say, what we are allowed or not allowed to believe with impunity, etc.

We currently elected a President and a majority in Congress that will pretty much reject some or all of the cancel culture, politically correct nonsense also including choices and options of how we will live, what products we will be allowed to buy and use, etc. But should this current government be voted out in the next or subsequent elections, we could again have a government determined to direct and control most of our lives.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We currently elected a President and a majority in Congress that will pretty much reject some or all of the cancel culture, politically correct nonsense also including choices and options of how we will live, what products we will be allowed to buy and use, etc. But should this current government be voted out in the next or subsequent elections, we could again have a government determined to direct and control most of our lives.

"Cancel culture" is an example of liberty in action. It's just people freely choosing who they associate with, buy from, etc., according to their conscience.

 

[Regiomontanus]

You edited the age of the universe in your post I see but you didn't need to do that.

You spent some time writing a thoughtful and detailed post and it is interesting, somewhat amusing, a bit frustrating that the only thing some focused on was the age of the universe which bears pretty much zero relevance to the rest of the post. You originally likely used a new study done by the University of Ottawa that roughly doubled the the age of the Universe, and your critics are using the first number they see when they quickly googled that. So I'll be nitpicky too and say the new study says 26.7 billion years instead of 26 which of course negates everything else you said. (Honestly the nitpickers never cease to amaze me on the internet.)

You and I are close to being on the same page here re liberty. But in my reading of the founding documents and the core history of how the United States came about, liberty to an informed American is the right to live, think, believe, speak, hope, want, care about whatever we want short of violating another's right to do the same. Our central government was instituted and intended to be a government of, for and by the people that protected our unalienable right to liberty.

But you are right that liberty is a fragile thing when those with power in government presume to tell us how we must live, what we are and are not allowed to say, what we are allowed or not allowed to believe with impunity, etc.

We currently elected a President and a majority in Congress that will pretty much reject some or all of the cancel culture, politically correct nonsense also including choices and options of how we will live, what products we will be allowed to buy and use, etc. But should this current government be voted out in the next or subsequent elections, we could again have a government determined to direct and control most of our lives.

I did not edit anything in my posts re: the age of the Universe. But you are right, it was not related to the topic of this thread. But I am a retired astronomer so I can't help myself sometimes .

 

[Foxfyre]

"Cancel culture" is an example of liberty in action. It's just people freely choosing who they associate with, buy from, etc., according to their conscience.

Not when the person is dragged into court and denied the right to make a living because they exercise their right to free speech, conscience, etc. That is just one example of cancel culture being used to take away our individual liberties.

 

[Viker]

Liberty generally refers to the state of being free from oppressive restrictions or control. Broadly, it can be understood in several key ways:

Personal Liberty: This refers to an individual's right to live their life as they choose, without undue interference from others or the government. It encompasses freedoms like freedom of speech, the right to privacy, and personal autonomy in making life choices.

Political Liberty: This involves the right of individuals to participate in the political process, including voting, running for office, and expressing political opinions. It emphasizes the importance of democratic governance and the protection of civil rights within a political system.

Economic Liberty: This focuses on the freedom to engage in economic activities, such as owning property, conducting business, and making financial decisions without excessive external interference.

Social Liberty: This refers to the freedom to live and associate with others according to personal preferences, such as forming relationships, joining organizations, or expressing cultural identities.

Negative Liberty: A concept introduced by philosopher Isaiah Berlin, negative liberty refers to freedom from external interference or coercion. It focuses on the absence of obstacles or constraints that prevent individuals from pursuing their own goals.

Positive Liberty: The idea that liberty is not just about the absence of restrictions but also the presence of opportunities and resources that enable individuals to realize their potential. It suggests that true freedom involves access to education, healthcare, and other means that allow individuals to achieve self-actualization

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Not when the person is dragged into court and denied the right to make a living because they exercise their right to free speech, conscience, etc. That is just one example of cancel culture being used to take away our individual liberties.

When do you think that this happened?

And what do you mean by "the right to make a living"?