Life after death.

[ChrisP]

A baby doesn't have a fully matured mind (that what you call spirits). How would the 'spirit' of the baby be ? Is it all of a sudden matured upon death ?

Something that is ageless cannot mature.

Not even to mention where you would want to send a baby; it didn't even have language to think about god, so how could it ever believe in one ? What about a genetically-determined lunatic, with an IQ below 50. ? Kills a few people in sheer stupidity. Does he/she go to heaven ? Does he/she become intelligent all of a sudden upon death ? Can the person be held accountable for the misbehaviour ? Surely, having some bad genes isn't the fault of that person...

Such people fall into the same category according to biblical scriptures. If you care to read them (which I doubt) I'll dig them up.

So many things don't make sense; I fail to understand why believers close their eyes for these matters (saying "God's ways are mysterious" is closing the eyes)

In disguise
Do you wonder
When the change is gonna come?

Open your eyes

You’ve got a great imagination

We cast the world, we set the stage
For what could be the darkest age

Short exchanges
From perfect strangers
We’ll never know
But wish we knew

I believe it...

Excerpts from : Open Your Eyes - Yes!

 

[flupke]

Who says maturity is a matter in heaven?

I'm sure according to you 'love' should be a matter... Babies don't love, they're being loved. Their immature minds prevent them from loving. So in that sense, maturity matters.

If he exist, he needs not to believe in him, he sees him, he feels him and God can act like a father. like he is supposed to be.

Is this what the bible says, or is it something you just made up to make sure god is perfect ?

Maybe "his soul" grows on in heaven. he goes up like a childlike and gets mature over there..

Then what's the point of being alive before dying and going to heaven ? (same goes for the baby).

If heaven us such an open place where even the greatest criminals can go to, can I take my dog as well ?

 

[flupke]

Something that is ageless cannot mature.

I don't see your point...
Baby=e.g. 1month = age <> ageless

Such people fall into the same category according to biblical scriptures. If you care to read them (which I doubt) I'll dig them up.

I'd be happy with a summary of this.

 

[ChrisP]

I don't see your point...
Baby=e.g. 1month = age <> ageless

Souls are ageless, and this is the eternal part of the being most christians believe lives on after death.

Some denominations believe in a physical resurrection on "Judgement Day"

I'd be happy with a summary of this.

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/salvatio/infantsa.htm a fairly standard view.

Basically the point for both infants and Retarded or persons without the faculties to comprehend God do not have said faculties and therefore cannot reasonably be expected to determine God's existence. I was raised to believe this was the point where we understand right from wrong, as it was with Adam and Eve.

Please note I'm not Christian myself, just raised as such with a lot of bible studying under my belt.

 

[BucephalusBB]

I'm sure according to you 'love' should be a matter... Babies don't love, they're being loved. Their immature minds prevent them from loving. So in that sense, maturity matters.

perhaps the soul is adapting silently to the body. perhaps the soul is actually like mature, but you can't see yet in the babyfase..

Is this what the bible says, or is it something you just made up to make sure god is perfect ?

I don't believe in God. And i have no idea how the bible feels about this. haven't looked it up yet..

Then what's the point of being alive before dying and going to heaven ? (same goes for the baby).

maybe the same point as being in heaven at all.. besides, you probably don't know the meaning of living without God at all either..

If heaven us such an open place where even the greatest criminals can go to, can I take my dog as well ?

If its up to me, you can bring anyone

 

[may]

Eccl. 9:5: "The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all................... but the bible tells me that those who are in Jehovahs memory will be resurrected

Acts 24:15: "I have hope toward God . . . that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

(John 5:28) Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice

​

(John 11:25) Jesus said to her: "I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life........... so hopefully if i die i will go to dust as it tells us in genesis , but if i am in Jehovahs memory i will be resurrected to live on a paradise earth

Luke 23:43: "Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise." (All the earth will be transformed into a paradise under the rule of Christ as King.) that is what i see the bible telling me.

 

[Green Gaia]

Literally...I will serve God in Heaven as well. I imagine my eternity will be spent worshipping and serving my Heavenly Father.

This is what I've gathered from reading the Bible and from what I've been taught.

Thank you for answering. I'm really not trying to be dense, but I still don't understand what you mean when you say you "will serve and worship God in Heaven" - what does that involve?

 

[jeffrey]

I believe that the body and the soul are 2 different subjects. If you don't believe in a soul, then the concept of afterlife would be harder to fathom.

 

[dawny0826]

Thank you for answering. I'm really not trying to be dense, but I still don't understand what you mean when you say you "will serve and worship God in Heaven" - what does that involve?

I imagine, anything that God would find pleasing.

 

[Katzpur]

Another reason I believe we will be as spirits is what happens to a baby that dies? He comes back as a baby? Or someone that is blown to bits. No body to be found. What is he, S.O.L.? Or a man of 100 years of age. Surely his spirit will be younger.

I see it quite differently. To me, my spirit is who I am. I am essentially the same person right now that I was as a child and that I will be as an old woman. I can grow in knowledge, understanding and maturity, but my spirit is eternally me.

Let me ask you something, Jeff... What do you think happens to our spirit when we die? Does it die or does it continue to exist elsewhere (in Heaven, for instance)? I'd like to hear your answer before I continue along my line of thinking.

Kathryn

 

[mr.guy]

I imagine, anything that God would find pleasing.

Euuach. I hope god is happy washing his own back.

 

[Green Gaia]

I imagine, anything that God would find pleasing.

I suppose specifics would be too much to ask for.

 

[YmirGF]

YAY, you all have such nice deaths to look forward to :woohoo: I would immidiatly kill myself to get there.. fortunatelly you are probably not allowed to do that to prevent that :sarcastic
Me, im not going anywhere, my body and its operatingsystem need eachother, when my body is worn out, the operatingsystem ceases to exist..:help:

Forgive me, but I dont think anyone is insisting that we all slash our wrists and rush off to the great unknown. Suicide is never a solution, espesically if one believes they are going to "end it all". It is my perception that by somwhat clinically investigating death one should develope a greater appreciation for LIFE.

Don Juan, of Carlos Cataneda fame, taught Carlos to use death as an advisor, and to live each moment, as if it were his last moment on earth. Frankly, doing so, defintely gives life more meaning. One tends to sit up and pay attention when the next word one utters, may be ones last.

 

[BucephalusBB]

Forgive me, but I dont think anyone is insisting that we all slash our wrists and rush off to the great unknown. Suicide is never a solution, espesically if one believes they are going to "end it all". It is my perception that by somwhat clinically investigating death one should develope a greater appreciation for LIFE.

Don Juan, of Carlos Cataneda fame, taught Carlos to use death as an advisor, and to live each moment, as if it were his last moment on earth. Frankly, doing so, defintely gives life more meaning. One tends to sit up and pay attention when the next word one utters, may be ones last.

As I don't believe in the afterlife, im going to enjoy all the time I have here. I greatly love life and i really think this world is perfect. I need no more meaning as it has completely all the meaning i need.
I was just saying that with almost every religion, you don't have to fear death as they all found their way to show you that death brings you more good than life.

Don't you think that it's a little bit strange that death becomes bad the moment you don't believe anymore, if you still believe its all good and if you take your own life you will be doomed as well? this would sound like a conspiracy to me :sarcastic

On the other hand its the most beautifull thought there is..

 

[dawny0826]

I suppose specifics would be too much to ask for.

No...not at all.

I just don't have them all...I'm working them out and learning as I go.

 

[YmirGF]

As I don't believe in the afterlife, im going to enjoy all the time I have here. I greatly love life and i really think this world is perfect. I need no more meaning as it has completely all the meaning i need.
I was just saying that with almost every religion, you don't have to fear death as they all found their way to show you that death brings you more good than life.

Don't you think that it's a little bit strange that death becomes bad the moment you don't believe anymore, if you still believe its all good and if you take your own life you will be doomed as well? this would sound like a conspiracy to me :sarcastic

On the other hand its the most beautifull thought there is..

Very nice Bouncey,

Oddly, I have a strange feeling that those who do not believe in any after life are in the best position to experience said after life, as they do not have a theological haze interferring. It is my opinion that the non-believer will actually have a chance to see things, as they are, rather than having their preconceptions telling them how things should be. It ought to make adjusting somewhat easier.

 

[ChrisP]

I suppose specifics would be too much to ask for.

I remember reading something about singing hymns of praise to God in the bible (for eternity)

 

[YmirGF]

I remember reading something about singing hymns of praise to God in the bible (for eternity)

Now you see, to me, that is such an utterly pointless waste of existence. Talk about a major Yawnfest. Ok, maybe for a half hour... but for trillions and trillions of years? Why on earth do we go about the bother of gaining experience if all we are going to do is stand around singing hymns and slapping the Boss on the back? Why wouldn't life just be learning hymn books and perfecting our Harp chords, is that is the case?

Although my simplistic outline near the start of the thread might seem to indicate a similar thing, it isn't at all the same. I envision something more like how a young child would tell their elderly grandfather or grandmother what they are learning in school (of existence), rather than worshipping something that does not need the fame.

Now if that is existentialism, I will have to check it out, because it is the most likely scenario in my mind.

 

[dawny0826]

I remember reading something about singing hymns of praise to God in the bible (for eternity)

Yuppers...I've read that as well.

 

[ChrisP]

Yeah I stand with YmirGF on that. Although I'm unsure as to whether it is literal or not, I do not intend singing praises for eternity. There must be something more useful to do.