Life beyond the grave (and life beyond that...)

[Dunemeister]

Music & Magic,
Love, Laughter & Friendship,
and so many personal symbolisms of meaning
I will find there on the other side.
Because that is what I have lived out here,
in this "state".

For really, 'this side' and 'the other' are only constructs of the ONE anyway.

I am Purple and I Sparkle,
it has always been so,
and it will always be so,
as it is so, in eternity.
(Which is exactly where I live right now anyway)

~UltraViolet~

So would you say that, after death, there is an "I" that will consciously exist after death? Or not? If there is, what can this "I" expect to experience beyond the grave? What will it do? Will it return to "this side" again (as in reincarnation)? If so, how does that all work?

 

[Troublemane]

I think it can be likened to a drop of rain falling into the sea. It became an individual as it condensed out of the rain clouds, but when it falls into the sea it ceases to be an individual drop again, and so it is with our consciousness. We return to the source which is Spirit, the source of All.

..however, there may be a trace of what we were, what we felt/thought/did. It may linger in the rememberance of Spirit, as the smell of flowers remain after they have been removed from the room. Perhaps this rememberance remains for a long time, but as Unity said earlier, i think True Mind is eternal and drops the trappings of persona as easily as we do a cheap suit thats been worn out. Its not just the flesh we can drop when we die, we can really drop everything (if we choose to). Or maybe we cling to things, and that carries on into another life, as a new raindrop forms, different but similar to the one it was before. Maybe this time it turns into a snowflake?

 

[Dunemeister]

I think it can be likened to a drop of rain falling into the sea. It became an individual as it condensed out of the rain clouds, but when it falls into the sea it ceases to be an individual drop again, and so it is with our consciousness. We return to the source which is Spirit, the source of All.

..however, there may be a trace of what we were, what we felt/thought/did. It may linger in the rememberance of Spirit, as the smell of flowers remain after they have been removed from the room. Perhaps this rememberance remains for a long time, but as Unity said earlier, i think True Mind is eternal and drops the trappings of persona as easily as we do a cheap suit thats been worn out. Its not just the flesh we can drop when we die, we can really drop everything (if we choose to). Or maybe we cling to things, and that carries on into another life, as a new raindrop forms, different but similar to the one it was before. Maybe this time it turns into a snowflake?

Hmm, interesting. To clarify, what exactly do I as a person have to look forward to upon death? If my consciousness becomes like a drop in the ocean, it seems to imply that I will no longer have conscious experiences as an individual. Is that about right? Is this to be thought of as an improvement over our currently embodied existence? And after we revert to "True Mind", is there a possibility of future embodiment (for example, as in reincarnation)?

 

[Troublemane]

Possibly. I do think of God as the Mind which encompasses all of This, and IS all of this. And transcends it. And when we die, our perception of being separate from God must also die. So when we join him we really melt into him, which obviously cannot be done with mortal minds, or anything that is limited at all. But perhaps if we are unable to do that, or if as we come into his presence we are able to see clearly all the wrong things we did, and are ashamed , then maybe there is a desire to turn away and hide these things, and thus flee from God and return to this world, maybe try and work it out there...or we find ourselves in a really dark place, alone with our terror (hell), but eventually even those souls may find rest as they finally realise they have been separating themselves from God needlessly.

I have no idea what happens after that, but having had the divine Being show up in my apartment one day, and have his light pierce right through me so I could see every flaw in my character, every stupid thing i ever did, and it made me fall to the floor apologizing, but...all that Awareness did was look at me, somewhat amused it seems, and then left soon after---if thats what I have to face in the afterlife, then I certainly have no fear of dying. Because ever since then i have tried to make each moment count----I still fail, LoL. but im not so worried anymore that there will be a terrifying God on a throne judging me--the judgement comes simply from being allowed to look at what you have done, and see it fully, feel it. If that was all good, then hey good for you! if bad, then...ouch. it will not be fun to relive. But thats all there is to it. I think the punishment that comes is from simply seeing/knowing who you are.

What happens next is anybody's guess. :angel2:

 

[blackout]

So would you say that, after death, there is an "I" that will consciously exist after death? Or not? If there is, what can this "I" expect to experience beyond the grave? What will it do? Will it return to "this side" again (as in reincarnation)? If so, how does that all work?

I thought the afterlife scenario portrayed in Beetlejuice was wonderful.
Each "afterlife", or as I would rather say, "continued life" experience,
was as unique to the individual, as individuals are unique.
(and the waiting room sceenes were a riot!)

As we are who we are,
and we are in a very real sense WHAT we believe (we are)
and what we have and haven't made of ourselves
(as co-creators with the UniVerse in life)
that is who we are in or out of this particular construct.

The transformative universe moves for us
according to our active (or non active) belief.

I do not think life is the same for any two individuals,
"here" "there" or anywhere else.

Perhaps as we both uncover & design our self
in decided purpose, the universe becomes for us.
This is exactly what I have seen in my 40 years here.
Why should it be any different anywhere else?
It's all the same "stuff".

What exactly will my next "construct" look like?
"Where" exactly will I be?
I have no idea.
Infinity is the limit of eternity.

But, in the spirit of self decision, I will still and ever be the ever rising construct "me".
I would not choose to lose my individuality, but if I suddenly have no say? I could not say.

 

[Darkwater]

Hi, Andy. I think we're talking past one another a little bit. I wasn't asking about how one obtains any sort of enlightenment. Nor was I asking about the basis upon which we are connected with each other. Rather, I was actually asking about your views about what happens at death. When I die, can I expect to continue to exist in some form? If so, is it appreciably different from my current form? Can I expect that mode of existence to change later? (For example, some people believe in reincarnation. Others believe in resurrection.) That's the sort of information I'm looking for.

ok Dunemeister,you are correct in your perceptions.

You are an emotional body attached to the carbon based lifeform we know as the physical body.Physical body is important to us,as this teaches us the importance of consequence of our actions.

Our emotional body is far larger than our physical,just weighs much much less...a gram or so,maybe less.This escapes through our 3rd eye chakra upon *death* of the physical body,to return to source.It is your spirit,your essence,the tenant of your soul........attached to the physical carbon based lifeform by way of neurons & the nervous system.

As long as your emotional body is in good order,chakra performing properly & allowing your bodies natural energy flow properly you can overcome all difficulties.

If there is a blockage in the emotional bodies natural energy flow,then this can cause difficulties in the physical,such as pain or just a difficulty in the physical performing as it should,it may feel run down or tired.Allergies can cause this,or even just a wee emotional imbalance.

Some far more eloquent writers than I are very beautifully describing the afterlife to you,whereas you have not yet identified your self or the 9 alternate realities upon which you exist,so we shall be passing each other until such times as you do.

It would take you about 30 minutes of reading & quiet contemplation to identify yourself,then a lifetime to *perfect* yourself.

Know thyself.

great questions & a magnificent thread.

Andy

All healing does come from within,

If you check out my Av,identifying yourself does construct a 9d leading to a *whole* or 10,a new *1*,perfectly compounded to form the centre of the 6 pointed star which does then form around *you*.There are some great links to this 6 pointed star.The serpent eating its tail is the life neverending.The yung-drung below the crown is the cosmic wheel,it is also represented in the *greek key* which is your unending dna.

 

[Charity]

Dunemeister, No problem we are cool Basically the same belief.....

 

[MuslimGirl]

Hey Dunemeister,

As a Muslim, i know the specific details of what will happen at the time of death and the graves but breifly, the bad people will be punished by several ways of punishment according to their deeds and the good people will be as if they are in heaven .. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said that for bad people, the grave is a part from hell and for good people, its a part from heaven.
It happened alot that many people who were putting people in the graves, sometimes they see some signs of punishment as the smell of fire and things like that and for others they smell something like a very strong perfume coming from down but its not a must to see these things, it doesn't happen alot, just a sign to remember us by this day to prepare ourselves.
And in the graves, there are angels who will test us .. Oh describing these things can be a bit scary and the description will be very long and actually i'm not sure that you are interested in the details so if you are interested, just tell me

But what i can say is that we won't feel these worms and so on, it will be a complete different feeling, either in heaven or in hell, either in a VERY wide place, or in a very narrow place .. We won't feel that we are underground in a dark place cause for good people, it will be a part from heaven.

May God (SWT) guide us all

 

[Rolling_Stone]

What lies beyond the grave? Anything, or are we just food for worms? If there's more, do the dead have some sort of consciousness, or are they, as the admittedly poor metaphor goes, simply a drop in the ocean with no sense of identity apart from the whole?

More? Yes. What more? beats me.

If the dead continue to exist in some form, what are they up to right now?

Beats me.

Can we who are still embodied have any sort of communication with the dead? How does that go?

I kinda doubt it. Although...

What sorts of practices are appropriate with respect to the dead? Can/should we pray to them? For them? With them? Can/Should we honor them somehow with some sort of ceremony on the anniversary of their death? Or what?

I think that is determined by culture, not religion.

 

[YmirGF]

What lies beyond the grave?

A trick question? Theoretically, the graveyard lies beyond the grave. :flirt:

Anything, or are we just food for worms? If there's more, do the dead have some sort of consciousness, or are they, as the admittedly poor metaphor goes, simply a drop in the ocean with no sense of identity apart from the whole?

I rather suspect that you will get an endless array of answer to this one but since I am a sucker for these types of threads.

How to say it?

The personality you are now, returns to that which gave rise to it, embellishing the whole self (your larger identity) with the newly aquired physical experience. You add to the overall texture of this larger identity, in a sense, by adding a new cosmopolitan richness to its reality which is the point of physical existence or excursions, rather.

Your personality will survive the confines of physical existence and live on in the memory of this "larger identity". This is the identity "who" you were before you took your last romp into the physical system and though it is an amalgam of all its physical existences, it also perceives reality on its own terms separately from that of the physical personality.

I know this sounds weird, but this larger identity is like a "future" you that you are still in the process of becoming. The kick in the head is that both "you's" continue to grow and follow their own paths. That is a fairly complex thing in itself to discuss, as becoming aware of this aspect of reality represents the initial cognition of the mechanics of multidimensional experience. I cannot stress enough that even though your experience becomes part of the whole self or larger identity, in no way does this dissolve your current (at the point of physical death) self-image, rather each enhances the other.

If the dead continue to exist in some form, what are they up to right now?

Now that I cannot tell you other than perhaps they are learning about different aspects of reality relative to their "next" physical existence. If the individual is at the end of physical endeavors or feels a need for a break from physical existence other options are available.

Can we who are still embodied have any sort of communication with the dead?

In fact you can, but in very limited "meetings" such as in dreams. Such dreams will almost always be quite memorable and will stay wth the individual long after waking. It does require focus however and that is one thing that people in this day and age have not explored to any great degree due to perceptions in regards to dreams in general. (I.E. They are less than "real".)

How does that go?

Other than the above, I couldn't say.

What sorts of practices are appropriate with respect to the dead?

I can't think of anything other than just remembering them. Though I wouldn't suggest that you just strike up a conversation with dear old Auntie Mildred while strolling in the park, she no doubt would look kindly on simply being fondly remembered.

Can/should we pray to them?

I don't believe in prayer, so that would be a big "No!"

Can/should we pray for them?

I suppose, but it is unlikely they are in any need of your prayers.

Can/should we pray with them?

Well, if you can hear them praying then I suppose, but that is a bit of a stretch.

Can/Should we honor them somehow with some sort of ceremony on the anniversary of their death? Or what?

I think it would probably be neat to have a loud, noisy party with them perhaps as the honored guest at the head of the table.

Answers welcome from all and sundry regardless of theological point of view.

Well, I do not claim any of this is right or the "way things are", but this is all representative of how I already perceive these things. As I have said on a few hundred occaisons, "I am as dead right now, as I am ever going to be." :faint:

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

Here's what we Baha'is believe, as stated in the Baha'i scriptures:

“Thou hast asked Me whether man, as apart from the Prophets of God and His chosen ones, will retain, after his physical death, the self-same individuality, personality, consciousness, and understanding that characterize his life in this world. If this should be the case, how is it, thou hast observed, that whereas such slight injuries to his mental faculties as fainting and severe illness deprive him of his understanding and consciousness, his death, which must involve the decomposition of his body and the dissolution of its elements, is powerless to destroy that understanding and extinguish that consciousness? How can any one imagine that man's consciousness and personality will be maintained, when the very instruments necessary to their existence and function will have completely disintegrated?

“Know thou that the soul of man is exalted above, and is independent of all infirmities of body or mind. That a sick person showeth signs of weakness is due to the hindrances that interpose themselves between his soul and his body, for the soul itself remaineth unaffected by any bodily ailments. Consider the light of the lamp. Though an external object may interfere with its radiance, the light itself continueth to shine with undiminished power. In like manner, every malady afflicting the body of man is an impediment that preventeth the soul from manifesting its inherent might and power. When it leaveth the body, however, it will evince such ascendancy, and reveal such influence as no force on earth can equal. Every pure, every refined and sanctified soul will be endowed with tremendous power, and shall rejoice with exceeding gladness.”

-- (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, pp. 153-154)


“And now concerning thy question whether human souls continue to be conscious one of another after their separation from the body. Know thou that the souls of the people of Baha, who have entered and been established within the Crimson Ark, shall associate and commune intimately one with another, and shall be so closely associated in their lives, their aspirations, their aims and strivings as to be even as one soul. They are indeed the ones who are well-informed, who are keen-sighted, and who are endued with understanding. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.

“The people of Baha, who are the inmates of the Ark of God, are, one and all, well aware of one another's state and condition, and are united in the bonds of intimacy and fellowship. Such a state, however, must depend upon their faith and their conduct. They that are of the same grade and station are fully aware of one another's capacity, character, accomplishments and merits. They that are of a lower grade, however, are incapable of comprehending adequately the station, or of estimating the merits, of those that rank above them. Each shall receive his share from thy Lord. Blessed is the man that hath turned his face towards God, and walked steadfastly in His love, until his soul hath winged its flight unto God, the Sovereign Lord of all, the Most Powerful, the Ever-Forgiving, the All-Merciful.

“The souls of the infidels, however, shall -- and to this I bear witness -- when breathing their last be made aware of the good things that have escaped them, and shall bemoan their plight, and shall humble themselves before God. They shall continue doing so after the separation of their souls from their bodies.

“It is clear and evident that all men shall, after their physical death, estimate the worth of their deeds, and realize all that their hands have wrought.”

-- (Baha'u'llah, Ibid., pp. 169-171)


“And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty. The movement of My Pen is stilled when it attempteth to befittingly describe the loftiness and glory of so exalted a station. The honor with which the Hand of Mercy will invest the soul is such as no tongue can adequately reveal, nor any other earthly agency describe. Blessed is the soul which, at the hour of its separation from the body, is sanctified from the vain imaginings of the peoples of the world. Such a soul liveth and moveth in accordance with the Will of its Creator, and entereth the all-highest Paradise. The Maids of Heaven, inmates of the loftiest mansions, will circle around it, and the Prophets of God and His chosen ones will seek its companionship. With them that soul will freely converse, and will recount unto them that which it hath been made to endure in the path of God, the Lord of all worlds. If any man be told that which hath been ordained for such a soul in the worlds of God, the Lord of the throne on high and of earth below, his whole being will instantly blaze out in his great longing to attain that most exalted, that sanctified and resplendent station.... The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men. The Prophets and Messengers of God have been sent down for the sole purpose of guiding mankind to the straight Path of Truth. The purpose underlying Their revelation hath been to educate all men, that they may, at the hour of death, ascend, in the utmost purity and sanctity and with absolute detachment, to the throne of the Most High.”

-- (Baha'u'llah, Ibid., pp. 155-157)

Best!

Bruce

 

[Heneni]

To be eternally “alive” you have to eternally progress.

What would be eternally 'dead' then mean?

 

[Heneni]

Possibly. I do think of God as the Mind which encompasses all of This, and IS all of this. And transcends it. And when we die, our perception of being separate from God must also die. So when we join him we really melt into him, which obviously cannot be done with mortal minds, or anything that is limited at all. But perhaps if we are unable to do that, or if as we come into his presence we are able to see clearly all the wrong things we did, and are ashamed , then maybe there is a desire to turn away and hide these things, and thus flee from God and return to this world, maybe try and work it out there...or we find ourselves in a really dark place, alone with our terror (hell), but eventually even those souls may find rest as they finally realise they have been separating themselves from God needlessly.

I have no idea what happens after that, but having had the divine Being show up in my apartment one day, and have his light pierce right through me so I could see every flaw in my character, every stupid thing i ever did, and it made me fall to the floor apologizing, but...all that Awareness did was look at me, somewhat amused it seems, and then left soon after---if thats what I have to face in the afterlife, then I certainly have no fear of dying. Because ever since then i have tried to make each moment count----I still fail, LoL. but im not so worried anymore that there will be a terrifying God on a throne judging me--the judgement comes simply from being allowed to look at what you have done, and see it fully, feel it. If that was all good, then hey good for you! if bad, then...ouch. it will not be fun to relive. But thats all there is to it. I think the punishment that comes is from simply seeing/knowing who you are.

What happens next is anybody's guess. :angel2:

I think that what you have described above is what people experience when they die. The becoming 'aware' part of it...however as you have also experienced this becoming 'aware' can also happen while we are alive..if you want it too.

 

[dmpci]

Well if you believe in the bible the explanation is clear. Ecclesiastes 9:5 says ' for the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all' and Psalm 146:4 'His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish.'

 

[Heneni]

Well if you believe in the bible the explanation is clear. Ecclesiastes 9:5 says ' for the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all' and Psalm 146:4 'His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish.'

Ok but what about this scripture?


John 11:25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

And this is what he said to the criminal on the cross.

Today you will be with me in paradise.

Are you saying that when we die we stop thinking? Or do you mean to say that when we die we dont remember what happened to us on earth?

 

[Darkwater]

Barabus was cool!

The graveyard is just a state of mind

 

[Darkwater]

Jesus,if he existed in the form you recognise & was crucified,was right (as his well tried & tested brand of theosophy usually is) in what was *said* to Barabus.....

This is because the 4 cornerstones of philosophy apply to not just both but to anyone who dies,as long as they stay true to nature,in love.

ok,so Barabus kept the company of thieves(where it is immoral not to steal),& was maybe addicted to violence having murdered a few,and was probably carrying a lot of emotional baggage which weighed him down(ala gravity),probably drank & swore like a pirate.& rude too,no excuse for that.



Our emotional bodies are all returning to the same place,some more educated,informed & controlled than others.

I encounter gravity all the time,I tell him there is always room at the top nomatter what you do & try & use him to suit my purposes.

Once you bite his head clean off & spit it as far as you can,he can even learn to respect you.