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Life From Dirt?

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Certainly doing nothing can’t be called an “investigation”.

Again . . . The problem is regardless of belief 'supernaturalism' cannot be falsified by any method that relies on objective verifiable evidence.

Answer this: "How can supernaturalism be objectively investigated?"
the comment about “vampires” is one of those phrases that causes the problems that you were wondering about and that being "Do you have an opinion as to why so many believers do this? “ - Probably a tit-for-tat situation. For your perusal, Vampire bat - Wikipedia :D

The way I tackled it is along this way, “The Bible (you can use supernatural) is either false or true, it can’t be both. I will start with it is true and test the sucker (yes, I called the Bible a ’sucker’), I will find out soon enough iif it is false. After accepting Jesus, I began to see the supernatural.
How do you objectively "see" the Bible.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
How do you objectively "see" the Bible.

I believe the subject isn’t the Bible but rather the supernatural

Again . . . The problem is regardless of belief 'supernaturalism' cannot be falsified by any method that relies on objective verifiable evidence.

Answer this: "How can supernaturalism be objectively investigated?"

I gave how I approached the supernatural… someone else will do it differently.

But are you saying that by doing nothing you are actually investigating the supernatural?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I believe the subject isn’t the Bible but rather the supernatural

I never said the subject was the Bible, but both are re;evamt regardless. H0w do you objectively observe the supernatural?
I gave how I approached the supernatural… someone else will do it differently.

But are you saying that by doing nothing you are actually investigating the supernatural?

No, I asked;
nswer this: "How can supernaturalism be objectively investigated?"
Again . . . The problem is regardless of belief 'supernaturalism' cannot be falsified by any method that relies on objective verifiable evidence.
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
At this point, I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion. Can we stay on subject and not try to make a side issue?
We could the subject of the thread involves evolution and abiogenesis, and the religious subjective agendas that oppose the science, and sometimes appeal to supernaturalism.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I never said the subject was the Bible, but both are re;evamt regardless.

INHO
H0w do you objectively observe the supernatural?

For me, as an example, it would be my friend who was born without an ear, without a hole, without an eardrum as per doctors. After prayer by Rev. Burnette, she said she could hear. So she was sent to the doctor and he said, “You have an eardrum and all we need is to open the hole.” And things large and small as like that.
No, I asked;
nswer this: "How can supernaturalism be objectively investigated?"

Like I said

I shared how I did it. It may vary person to person, but I was pretty objective.
Again . . . The problem is regardless of belief 'supernaturalism' cannot be falsified by any method that relies on objective verifiable evidence.
that sounds a lot of unbelief jargon to me.- could you rephrase that into a more simpler sentence?
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
Brian's comment above this one reflects that same tendency. What he is referring to is when he tells me I have ruled out gods and the supernatural and I tell him what I just told you - no, I have not.

You have said a number of times that belief in the supernatural and God is something that is still open for you and I can speak only for myself when I say that even though you say that, you do say thing that imply imo the supposition that the supernatural and/or God is not true.
This also happens with other skeptic/atheist posters who supposedly leave a space for the existence of God and the supernatural.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes your choices are arbitrary, but one of many ancient tribal religions and their contradictory beliefs
I have no idea of what you're talking about. I think you may be referring to the many religions existing during the times of the pharaohs and the nations other than Israel maybe 2500 years ago.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes your choices are arbitrary, but one of many ancient tribal religions and their contradictory beliefs
And you make a choice I suppose based on what you think is reason and evidence, right? I do not agree with the interpretation all the time of what you consider evidence bolstering up your beliefs.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Wwe could the subject of the thread involves evolution and abiogenesis, and the religious subjective agendas that oppose the science, and sometimes appeal to supernaturalism.
While scientists will probably not agree, abiogenesis and evolution are not natural. I know you won't agree with that but now that you mention it, the idea that they're not natural makes sense.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
And you make a choice I suppose based on what you think is reason and evidence, right? I do not agree with the interpretation all the time of what you consider evidence bolstering up your beliefs.
Evidence is evidence, and your belief in science is 'magic,'
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
You have said a number of times that belief in the supernatural and God is something that is still open for you and I can speak only for myself when I say that even though you say that, you do say thing that imply imo the supposition that the supernatural and/or God is not true.
This also happens with other skeptic/atheist posters who supposedly leave a space for the existence of God and the supernatural.
@It Aint Necessarily So is not skeptic/atheist.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Certainly doing nothing can’t be called an “investigation”.
I'm guessing that you're referring to your lack of investigation into claims that vampires exist. You're never going to come to believe in them unless you think about them for so long and so earnestly that you begin to expect to see evidence of them. After that, you will. You'll become a believer.
Trying to understand and clarify?
That's not credible. It appears that you don't understand what I'm telling you, and have asked no questions that might clarify what that is. Go ahead and try to paraphrase what I've told you about transforming the meaning of words. I'm pretty sure that you not only can't, but aren't interested in understanding what was written to you. That's fine. I have my answer. My question for myself and the reason I asked you for your opinion was to help determine whether this represented some cognitive bias or comprehension defect - an inability to understand - or done knowingly, which would make it bad faith argumentation and trolling.
that sounds a lot of unbelief jargon to me.- could you rephrase that into a more simpler sentence?
That was in response to, "The problem is regardless of belief 'supernaturalism' cannot be falsified by any method that relies on objective verifiable evidence." You seem to be saying that you don't understand what is being said there. He's telling you what I'm telling you. "Investigate the supernatural" means look at evidence for the claim. There is none. The claim is unfalsifiable, namely, that there exists a reality which is distinct from and transcends our reality, and which is defined as beyond empirical investigation.
You have said a number of times that belief in the supernatural and God is something that is still open for you and I can speak only for myself when I say that even though you say that, you do say thing that imply imo the supposition that the supernatural and/or God is not true.
Then you'd be wrong regarding the supernatural part. If you weren't, you could have provided specific quotes that say that, but you can't.

I'm telling you that I'm willing to change my opinion about the supernatural if given and sound reason to do so. It's true that I'm not expecting to find evidence for the supernatural if I haven't in almost 70 years, but that's not saying that the supernatural doesn't exist. It isn't necessary for me to say that, and if I did, it would be just as much of a faith-based belief as the opposite - that it does exist.

You display the same cognitive quirk that Kenny does - the one I call unbelief/disbelief conflation. I write A ("I don't believe your claim") and you read B ("I know that you're wrong"). This is a fine example of that. No matter how many times and how clearly I state my agnostic position, it is transformed into something else - denial of the possibility that what I haven't accepted I also haven't ruled out. Let me say this again: I don't need to claim that gods or the supernatural don't exist in order to live as if they don't.

Regarding "God," assuming that you mean the god of Abraham, I have concluded that that god doesn't exist. I am NOT agnostic about that particular god. Still, I expect you to read that my opinions about both "God" and gods and the supernatural are the same - they don't exist - and my question to both of you is why this happens. Neither of you seem to understand what I'm saying or asking.

That's also fine. I don't need you to understand. I've done my level best to help you do that, but I've made no apparent impact on the thinking of either of you, which is meaningful by itself.
@It Aint Necessarily So is not skeptic/atheist.
I don't know why you say so. I use both of those words to describe myself.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
That's also fine. I don't need you to understand. I've done my level best to help you do that, but I've made no apparent impact on the thinking of either of you, which is meaningful by itself.
In the very few posts that we interacted in?

This is probably why you seem to be having problems with the other posters whereas you thought it was us.

I have concluded that that god doesn't exist.
OK. You didn’t ask any questions about “that” God so I assume your have already done your mental processes to arrive to that conclusion.

Maybe that is why you aren’t connecting with the Christian posters and starting talking about vampires.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
In the very few posts that we interacted in?
Yes. This is at least the third, and you still show no signs of understanding what was written to you, and also no curiosity what that is. I've been referring to a cognitive bias wherein the meanings of words are converted from what the words say to something else. You don't seem to understand that. Nothing you've written suggests that you do.
you aren’t connecting with the Christian posters and starting talking about vampires.
I was addressing your recommendation to investigate supernaturalism. The vampire analogy is very apt. I recommended that you investigate claims of vampires existing, an unfalsifiable claim like other claims of supernaturalism including god claims. You haven't, both because you can't, which was my point regarding other forms of supernaturalism, and because you understand that it would be a waste of your time to give the subject any further consideration than you already have.

The two are perfectly analogous, but you probably don't agree. Most theists are offended at having their unfalsifiable claims treated the same as all others. But why should that matter to somebody making the argument?

I wonder if people who believe that vampires but not gods exist would also be offended by that comparison. Vampires are real, but not gods, they might exclaim. They deserve special exemption, they might say.
 
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