Lila

[doppelganger]

In Hindu mythology, "God" creates the universe out of a sense of play.

"It is a Lila, or sport, of Brahman. It is created out of Bliss, by Bliss and for Bliss. Lila indicates a spontaneous sportive activity of Brahman as distinguished from a self-conscious volitional effort. The concept of Lila signifies freedom as distinguished from necessity." - Ram Shanker Misra

We are the Universe. We are "God," playing the game.

Can you think of parallels in other mythological traditions to the Hindu notion of lila in creation/being?

 

[Lucian]

The native creation myth over here is probably the complete opposite: a waterfowl rolled an egg and from the egg the world came to be.

 

[Mr. Hair]

Can you think of parallels in other mythological traditions to the Hindu notion of lila in creation/being?

In some of the Kemetic creation myths, the world and the 'gods' have come into being through the Uncreated's spontaneous attempts to converse and speak with the Primeval Ocean. Creation literally arises out of a divine* desire for communication and dialogue.

As humanity, as with all creation, is held to be rooted in this divine** emanation and so share and partake in the same divine*** essence, and given the importance assigned to words in manifesting and perceiving the single-into-many; I think there's at least a goodly dollop of resemblance between the two.

I also have a rather fuzzy idea of various Abrahamic mystics conceiving of a not-too-dissimilar idea, but it's been many a moon since I read up on that kind of thing.

*For lack of a better term.
**Erm... Ditto.
***Ye Gods, but I'm a pedantic bugger today.

 

[doppelganger]

In some of the Kemetic creation myths, the world and the 'gods' have come into being through the Uncreated's spontaneous attempts to converse and speak with the Primeval Ocean. Creation literally arises out of a divine* desire for communication and dialogue.

As humanity, as with all creation, is held to be rooted in this divine** emanation and so share and partake in the same divine*** essence, and given the importance assigned to words in manifesting and perceiving the single-into-many; I think there's at least a goodly dollop of resemblance between the two.

I also have a rather fuzzy idea of various Abrahamic mystics conceiving of a not-too-dissimilar idea, but it's been many a moon since I read up on that kind of thing.

*For lack of a better term.
**Erm... Ditto.
***Ye Gods, but I'm a pedantic bugger today.

Links?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I don't know of any, dopp. Most creation myths that I know of have the world beginning in struggle (examples Creation myth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). It has me wondering about the nature of the quote in the OP. Is it originally in English or is it a translation? "Sportive" does not necessarily mean "play" -- sport, after all, carries with it a military struggle aspect, particularly if the losers of the game are killed.

 

[doppelganger]

I don't know of any, dopp. Most creation myths that I know of have the world beginning in struggle (examples Creation myth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). It has me wondering about the nature of the quote in the OP. Is it originally in English or is it a translation? "Sportive" does not necessarily mean "play" -- sport, after all, carries with it a military struggle aspect, particularly if the losers of the game are killed.

It does strike me as different. That's what prompted me to ask.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

It does strike me as different. That's what prompted me to ask.

I am unfamiliar with the person quoted in the OP. Is the quote a translation of something originally in a different language?

EDIT: It appears that he wrote in English.. see page 11 in http://sabda.sriaurobindoashram.org/pdf/news/dec2000.pdf

 

[Mr. Hair]

Links?

I don't have any on me. All my research comes from books.

:sorry1:

 

[PureX]

"Lila" is also the title of an excellent book written by Robert Pursig, the fellow who wrote "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". It's a philosophical/psychological study of the concept of quality, told along side a boat trip down the Hudson River.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Kemetism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[doppelganger]

I am unfamiliar with the person quoted in the OP. Is the quote a translation of something originally in a different language?

EDIT: It appears that he wrote in English.. see page 11 in http://sabda.sriaurobindoashram.org/pdf/news/dec2000.pdf

Right. That quote is originally in English, but it captures the essence of the word consistently with other writings on the subject. It's consistent with the all-powerful Wiki, too:

Within monism, Lila is a way of describing all reality, including the cosmos, as the outcome of creative play by the divine absolute (Brahman). In the dualistic schools of Vaishnavism, Lila more simply refers to the activities of God and his devotees, as distinct from the common activities of karma.

From Heinrich Zimmer and Joseph Campbell's "Philosophies of India" as quoted on Wiki (a Campbell work I'm a little embarrassed to admit I've never read):

"The Vendantic yogi never tires of stating that kaivalya, 'isolation-integration,' can be attained only by turning away from the distracting allure of the world and worshiping with single-pointed attention the formless Brahman-Atman; to the Tantric, however - as to the normal child of the world - this notion seems pathological, the wrong-headed effect of a certain malady of intellect. (...) 'I like eating sugar,' as Ramprasad said, 'but I have no desire to become sugar.' Let those who suffer from the toils of samsara seek release: the perfect devotee does not suffer; for he can both visualize and experience life and the universe as the revelation of that Supreme Divine Force (shakti) with which he is in love, the all-comprehensive Divine Being in its cosmic aspect of playful, aimless display (lila) - which precipitates pain as well as joy, but in its bliss transcends them both."

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Right. That quote is originally in English, but it captures the essence of the word consistently with other writings on the subject.

I don't think that we're talking about the same thing.. are we?

I am hung up on "play" and "sportive" with the emphasis in my interpretation of those concepts as military struggle rather than modern sport for fun. Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but it reconciles better with other creation myths.

In modern myth/philosophy, Gadamer speaks of (game/fun) play as creative. His concept of play I think would be useful for you in interpreting the original quote in light of other work.

 

[doppelganger]

In modern myth/philosophy, Gadamer speaks of (game/fun) play as creative. His concept of play I think would be useful for you in interpreting the original quote in light of other work.

I just ordered the Zimmer/Campbell book. I've never seen a combative or military aspect to lila in anything I've read prior to you mentioning it. Perhaps you are seeing it that way in order to reconcile it with the way you understand other traditions with which you are more familiar?

Sport, war and competition aren't really "aimless" or non-volitional are they?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

There are some Native American myths that involve games being played. A quick search gave me this example:

The Jicarilla Apache emergence

In the beginning there is nothing but water. All living things are in the underworld. Everything can talk to everything else. Humans and other daylight creatures want more light; nocturnal animals want darkness. They play a game to decide, and daylight wins out. The Sun peeps through a hole into the upper world and is able to tell the people about it.

From: Native American myths in brief

I believe there are more and better representations. If I have time later tonight, I'll peruse my books for some...

 

[Guitar's Cry]

There are some Native American myths that involve games being played. A quick search gave me this example:

From: Native American myths in brief

I believe there are more and better representations. If I have time later tonight, I'll peruse my books for some...

Also from that site:

Rabbit Boy - White River Sioux

A rabbit plays ball with a blood clot he finds lying around. The constant movement creates a little boy, who grows up with the rabbits. Eventually the rabbits tell him that he's a human and ought to go and live with humans.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Play is an important part in the development of many animals, and especially humans. Through play, we explore our reality and create the associations that govern how we move within it.

It's not surprising to find play in creation myths, especially in hunter/warrior cultures where games and sport hone the abilities needed for survival.