Little confused...Are Jews allowed to drink alcohol or is it a sin?

[rosends]

I may have flaws, but I have been learning and if you don't agree with my questioning, you don't have to answer. But I like my dialogue and am sincere in my approaches. I am not arguing I am discussing.

I don't recall saying you had flaws and you cannot learn if you predicate your search for information on flawed premises.

 

[MyM]

You have to understand that the Torah is not a religion, not in the sense you are speaking of. We Jews are in exile. We are also not a majority in any country or in the world. We have been in survival mode for more than about 2,600 years and there have number periods in that time where the attitude of some of the citizens in a host country has been, "Got a problem? Something not working out a certain way? Next step, blame the Jews."

As a Muslim, you have a concept of how you deal with the non-Islamic world that is foreign to us Jews - which is fine...I guess. You also have more countries that are Islamic centered than we have countries that are Torah based. Currently, we Jews don't have any country that is Torah based, as a country. At least not right now.

I guess that is where I have been getting confused all along. But the term Judaism I thought was a religion but am starting to understand ok wait maybe I am still confused a little. I don't personally attribute any country well, maybe the city of Mecca and Medina since that is where Islam originated, but Islam is still a religion and even though I am in my home country America, I would still consider myself a Muslim. The religion of Moses taught one God but he didn't name it I see. It is called Judaism because of the 12 tribes of Judea?

 

[MyM]

You have to understand that the Torah is not a religion, not in the sense you are speaking of. We Jews are in exile. We are also not a majority in any country or in the world. We have been in survival mode for more than about 2,600 years and there have number periods in that time where the attitude of some of the citizens in a host country has been, "Got a problem? Something not working out a certain way? Next step, blame the Jews."

As a Muslim, you have a concept of how you deal with the non-Islamic world that is foreign to us Jews - which is fine...I guess. You also have more countries that are Islamic centered than we have countries that are Torah based. Currently, we Jews don't have any country that is Torah based, as a country. At least not right now.

Why do you consider you are in exile? You live where you live...I mean Jews migrated and spread throughout the world. Just like Muslims and Christians. Why do you say exile? You don't have to own a country and say it's a Jewish country. You can make your home anywhere and call it home I am a Native American but my family still live in the states. They aren't exiled, they have just been occupied but now they live and they are still Americans. I am in UAE but still American Muslim. Just different to say you are in exile is new to me...first time actually.

 

[rosends]

Galut
galut | Virtual Shtetl.
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1157488/jewish/Understanding-Galut-Exile.htm
Jewish diaspora - Wikipedia

 

[Ehav4Ever]

But the term Judaism I thought was a religion but am starting to understand ok wait maybe I am still confused a little.

In order to get to the heart of the questions you are asking, using the terms "Torath Mosheh" will make it a bit easier to center things in the way that deals with the issues you are wondering about. Otherwise, you may get confused with something that is not found in all ancient Jewish communities.

The religion of Moses taught one God but he didn't name it I see. It is called Judaism because of the 12 tribes of Judea?

The terms "religion' and "Judaism" didn't exist in the Hebrew of Mosheh ben-Amram's time. In fact, the word used in modern Hebrew (דת) to describe a religion doesn't ancient mean religion. In ancient Hebrew, (דת) means statutes or laws.

Also, the word God is used in English as it is used in the west didn't exist in the Hebrew of Mosheh ben-Amram's time. At least, not when dealing with the Source of Creation. I.e. the word in Hebrew (אלהים) Elohim doesn't equate to the English term God. When western Torath Mosheh and Orthodox Jews who know English and Hebrew use the term "God" in English they often don't mean what non-Jewish English speakers mean when they use the term.

Here is a thread where that issue was discussed.

How Torah based Jews Understand the Hebrew Tanakh's View of the Creator

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Why do you consider you are in exile? You live where you live...I mean Jews migrated and spread throughout the world. Just like Muslims and Christians. Why do you say exile?

The exile means that we Jews are:

1. not living in a Torah based society, from top to bottom. (Time of Dawith ben-Yishai [King David] and the beginnings of Shelomo ben-Dawith's [Solomon] reign.)
2. spread throughout different parts of the world.
3. not being led by a Davidic king who keeps Torath Mosheh.
4. lacking the correct Torah based system Mosaic Courts judicial in the land of Israel.
5. lacking the Temple in Jerusalem.
6. living with the potential of war from all around us.

Thus, we Jews are in exile, no matter where we live or how we live, until the above five things change all at once.

You don't have to own a country and say it's a Jewish country.

According to Torath Mosheh it is not about "owning a coutnry" it is about the correct situation that Hashem created the Jewish people to be in. If memory serves the Koran even makes a mention of this.

and also here:

 

[Ehav4Ever]

You can make your home anywhere and call it home I am a Native American but my family still live in the states. They aren't exiled, they have just been occupied but now they live and they are still Americans. I am in UAE but still American Muslim. Just different to say you are in exile is new to me...first time actually.

The Jewish situation is different. Hashem defined the Jewish exile as what I described above. Other nations in the world have a different situation.

 

[MyM]

The exile means that we Jews are:

1. not living in a Torah based society, from top to bottom. (Time of Dawith ben-Yishai [King David] and the beginnings of Shelomo ben-Dawith's [Solomon] reign.)
2. spread throughout different parts of the world.
3. not being led by a Davidic king who keeps Torath Mosheh.
4. lacking the correct Torah based system Mosaic Courts judicial in the land of Israel.
5. lacking the Temple in Jerusalem.
6. living with the potential of war from all around us.

Thus, we Jews are in exile, no matter where we live or how we live, until the above five things change all at once.



According to Torath Mosheh it is not about "owning a coutnry" it is about the correct situation that Hashem created the Jewish people to be in. If memory serves the Koran even makes a mention of this.

View attachment 61164
View attachment 61165
and also here:

View attachment 61166

It's in sura Ma'ida starting from aya(verse) 20 onwards but it doesn't mention it has to be in Israel to become un-exiled or to be having a temple etc. Just gives the story of Moses n such.

 

[MyM]

The Jewish situation is different. Hashem defined the Jewish exile as what I described above. Other nations in the world have a different situation.

Did Allah say it has to be like that or did the elders make it like that as part of the Torah or Oral?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

It's in sura Ma'ida starting from aya(verse) 20 onwards but it doesn't mention it has to be in Israel to become un-exiled or to be having a temple etc. Just gives the story of Moses n such.

Like I said, according to Torath Mosheh it is not about "owning a coutnry" it is about the correct situation that Hashem created the Jewish people to be in.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Did Allah say it has to be like that or did the elders make it like that as part of the Torah or Oral?

Hashem gave it both in the Hebrew text of the written Torah and in the Oral Torah.

 

[MyM]

Like I said, according to Torath Mosheh it is not about "owning a coutnry" it is about the correct situation that Hashem created the Jewish people to be in.

ok, now am understanding more. I want to thank you for your time in explaining things to me today. I really appreciate it and have learned more about the Jewish laws and ways a bit. If I ever have any more questions (which am sure I will have lol) I will ask again in hopes you can enlighten me.

I do have one question that is bothering me that I heard from some Jewish people a long time ago. I heard that every other people other than the Jew are considered beneath the Jewish people. Like we are nothing compared to them and the term is Gulam or Golum ugh can't remember. Is this a correct view or how do you stand with this?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

ok, now am understanding more. I want to thank you for your time in explaining things to me today. I really appreciate it and have learned more about the Jewish laws and ways a bit. If I ever have any more questions (which am sure I will have lol) I will ask again in hopes you can enlighten me.

No problem. Glad to have helped.

I do have one question that is bothering me that I heard from some Jewish people a long time ago. I heard that every other people other than the Jew are considered beneath the Jewish people. Like we are nothing compared to them and the term is Gulam or Golum ugh can't remember. Is this a correct view or how do you stand with this?

If you heard that in English it is possible that the people who said it don't really understand what is really said on this matter.

The best way I can explain it is like this. All non-Jews in the world are responsible for the 7 Noachide laws. 6 of which were given to Adam and his descendents and the 7th was given to Noach and his descendents. Avraham (Abraham) and his children accepted an additional mitzvah of brith mila on the eigth day for a baby male that is born. Brith Mila for anyone who wanted to join Avraham in the mission he was given by Hashem.

When Israelis/Jews were Mount Sinai Hashem gave the entire nation 613 mitzvoth of the Torah. This was given and accepted by the entire Jewish nation of that generation and there are some sources that say that all future Jews who would keep Torath also accepted it, since Hashem is not bound by time but is the Creator of time. If a non-Jew keeps the 7 mitzvoth of Noachide as Hashem specified them they are granted a place in the world to come by Hashem. All Jews who keep Torath Mosheh have a portion of the world to come if Jews as a nation keep the 613 mitzvoth. Much of the benefit of such is hidden away from Jews in this world with the higher benefits of only be realized in the world to come.

That being said, the folloing example can be used. Imagine a military with all of its different units, jobs, functions, etc. Using a US navel example.

1. The consideration is that the non-Jewish nations that keep the 7 mitzvoth are:
   • United States Fleet Forces Command/Naval Forces Northern Command
   • United States Pacific Fleet
   • United States Naval Forces Central Command
   • United States Naval Forces Southern Command
   • United States Naval Forces Europe-Africa
   • U.S. Fleet Cyber Command
   • United States Navy Reserve
2. The Jewish nation that keeps the 613 mitzvoth is like United States Naval Special Warfare Command and Operational Test and Evaluation Force.

Both are considered to be in the Navy. Yet, the functions are different and the type of rewards or recognition of the service are different. Further, anyone from the nations can join the Jewish nation by way of conversation. The same that someone in the Navy who meets certain requirements can try to become a Navy Seal.

 

[MyM]

No problem. Glad to have helped.



If you heard that in English it is possible that the people who said it don't really understand what is really said on this matter.

The best way I can explain it is like this. All non-Jews in the world are responsible for the 7 Noachide laws. 6 of which were given to Adam and his descendents and the 7th was given to Noach and his descendents. Avraham (Abraham) and his children accepted an additional mitzvah of brith mila on the eigth day for a baby male that is born. Brith Mila for anyone who wanted to join Avraham in the mission he was given by Hashem. When Israelis/Jews were Mount Sinai Hashem gave the entire nation 613 mitzvoth of the Torah. This was given and accepted by the entire Jewish nation of that generation and there are some sources that say that all future Jews who would keep Torath also accepted it, since Hashem is not bound by time but is the Creator of time. If a non-Jew keeps the 7 mitzvoth of Noachide as Hashem specified them they are granted a place in the world to come by Hashem. All Jews who keep Torath Mosheh have a portion of the world to come if Jews as a nation keep the 613 mitzvoth. Much of the benefit of such is hidden away from Jews in this world with the higher benefits of only be realized in the world to come.

That being said, the folloing example can be used. Imagine a military with all of its different units, jobs, functions, etc. Using a US navel example.

1. The consideration is that the non-Jewish nations that keep the 7 mitzvoth are:
   • United States Fleet Forces Command/Naval Forces Northern Command
   • United States Pacific Fleet
   • United States Naval Forces Central Command
   • United States Naval Forces Southern Command
   • United States Naval Forces Europe-Africa
   • U.S. Fleet Cyber Command
   • United States Navy Reserve
2. The Jewish nation that keeps the 613 mitzvoth is like United States Naval Special Warfare Command and Operational Test and Evaluation Force.

Both are considered to be in the Navy. Yet, the functions are different and the type of rewards or recognition of the service are different. Further, anyone from the nations can join the Jewish nation by way of conversation. The same that someone in the Navy who meets certain requirements can try to become a Navy Seal.

ok, that is a little confusing. So, was it a yes or no lol The Jews are the only ones given the message to advance the most... is that what you are sayin? What depicts the Noachide to non Jews?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

So, was it a yes or no lol

Without knowing who said it. What exactly they said. What their understanding was for what they said and what the source of what they said is. I can only give you the standard answer which is not yes or no. If you can have them completely restate what they said then I can either work it out or contact them and get them to elaborate.

The Jews are the only ones given the message to advance the most... is that what you are sayin?

No. The Islamic concept of the "message" is not something we Torath Mosheh Jews have. Simple put there are two paths.

1. 7 mitzvoth which are often called the Noachide laws. Many of which Muslims who actually practice Islam keep, with a few exceptions.
2. The Torah that Hashem gave the Israeli people/Jewish nation at Mount Sinai as a national revelation with 613 mitzvoth.

The part that is exclusive to the Israeli nation is the national revelation part and the national and community mitzvoth that came along with it.

What depicts the Noachide to non Jews?

They are:

1. Not to do Avodah Zara.
2. Not to curse Hashem.
3. Not to murder.
4. Not to do robbery.
5. Not to eat an animal while it is alive.
6. Not to have particular forbidden marriages/relationships.
7. To establish systems of justice in their societies.

According to some sources, all of these have a basis in them being done as Hashem specified them to Mosheh ben-Amram and not make up a religion with them. I.e. these are not considered a religion as people in the west would say. They are considered to be the baseline of hummanity.

 

[Flankerl]

to advance the most

No such thing in Judaism.
Jews have 613 Laws.
Non-Jews have 7 Laws.

At the end of the day both might end up in the same situation which is entirely irrelevant any way because it's about how we live and not about some benefit after we die.

 

[MJ Bailey]

I believe wine was a staple at that time; an alternative to water or mead type beverages.

 

[MJ Bailey]

I wonder as well if there was a similar sort of tree that naturally makes alcohol? There is one indigenous species found in the Serengeti that does this. Several species convene to eat the fruit. makes you think

 

[firedragon]

The exile means that we Jews are:

1. not living in a Torah based society, from top to bottom. (Time of Dawith ben-Yishai [King David] and the beginnings of Shelomo ben-Dawith's [Solomon] reign.)
2. spread throughout different parts of the world.
3. not being led by a Davidic king who keeps Torath Mosheh.
4. lacking the correct Torah based system Mosaic Courts judicial in the land of Israel.
5. lacking the Temple in Jerusalem.
6. living with the potential of war from all around us.

Thus, we Jews are in exile, no matter where we live or how we live, until the above five things change all at once.



According to Torath Mosheh it is not about "owning a coutnry" it is about the correct situation that Hashem created the Jewish people to be in. If memory serves the Koran even makes a mention of this.

View attachment 61164
View attachment 61165
and also here:

View attachment 61166

Let me put a small nuance for you to consider. Maybe later.

One of the images (Nice images by the way), it says "Ya Bani Israela" or children of Israel. But the Qur'an calls Jews by the word Yahudh. Have you noticed that difference?

 

[rosends]

Let me put a small nuance for you to consider. Maybe later.

One of the images (Nice images by the way), it says "Ya Bani Israela" or children of Israel. But the Qur'an calls Jews by the word Yahudh. Have you noticed that difference?

I don't know which picture is labeled that way but if it refers to a group claiming descent from one of the lost tribes, then it would be coming from the kingdom of Israel and not from the kingdom of Judah.