Living as a taoist

[Antibush5]

I have read the Tao te Ching, while it is a bit confusing in some parts, it is mostly easy to understand, but moving throughout life smoothly, that is something I need some advice on, maybe a few examples?

 

[wmjbyatt]

You just do it. There is no guidebook, because it's simpler than words can explain. Words are built on the illusion of separateness. Get rid of separateness, and you dance as one with the universe in your actions. I wish I could explain it better than this, but the only advice I can give is that you have to quit TRYING to move smoothly and just move smoothly. Relax. Be content. Be neither arrogant nor self-conscious. Do not judge your actions, do not judge yourself, do not have a self, and you act perfectly.

That's about all I can say, I think.

 

[Antibush5]

You just do it. There is no guidebook, because it's simpler than words can explain. Words are built on the illusion of separateness. Get rid of separateness, and you dance as one with the universe in your actions. I wish I could explain it better than this, but the only advice I can give is that you have to quit TRYING to move smoothly and just move smoothly. Relax. Be content. Be neither arrogant nor self-conscious. Do not judge your actions, do not judge yourself, do not have a self, and you act perfectly.

That's about all I can say, I think.

I can get what your saying, but it seems a bit difficult, to be completely inactive in that way.

 

[wmjbyatt]

First of all, it isn't inactive in the least. It's fully active. I can see why you would see it appears to be inactive, but it IS flowing with the Tao, and flowing is movement, which is active.

More towards your point, though, it is actually the easiest thing in the world. It is so infinitely simple that it does, often, seem difficult. But it is simplicity in a manner so simple as to be inexpressible. Ego, judgment, value, arrogance, self-consciousness, these are all learned actions. They are illusions that we have to choose to prop up. But we have a lot of practice propping them up, and very little practice NOT doing so. So we've forgotten how to release these illusions. Trying to release them is a mistake. It is impossible to succeed when you try. The reason I say it is the easiest thing in the world is that it is only possible when there is no effort, no will, no ATTEMPT to do it. It can only be done effortlessly.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Antibush,

Here are two examples :
During summer a guy was lying under a shade of a tree in taters but still enjoying whatever life is offering him.
A guy in a merc passing by watches this man in awe but tells the driver to stop.
He gets down and walks up to this man throws few dollars in the hat there and says. why do you not work. The guy says then what? He says: Earn money, he replies, then what? he says Earn more money. Then what? well you could enjoy life in air conditioned comfort, drive a merc and relax. The guy says, what am I doing HERE-NOW?
The guy lowers his head and walks back to his car and drives away.

The other story is DRINK and go to Heaven.
When you drink, you do not sin.
Those who do not sin goes to heaven.

The quality of both the examples are different.
Being HERE-NOW! is to be practiced at all moments to remain HERE-NOW!

Love & rgds

 

[Master Vigil]

When my alarm goes off in the morning, and I am still WAY TOO TIRED... I remember that I am not separate from waking or sleeping. So it's no problem, I wake up.

Taoism is not about "going with the flow" as much as it is about "going with whats necessary". By that I mean, a Taoist will live in a way that prioritizes necessity before desires. And it is by this means that the Taoist finds how little is actually necessary. And then... he just is.

When this happens... and my alarm goes off. I can wake up.

 

[wmjbyatt]

In my experience, "necessary" is a null word. Meaningless. There is no necessity.

 

[Antibush5]

In my experience, "necessary" is a null word. Meaningless. There is no necessity.

What about food?

 

[Master Vigil]

In my experience, "necessary" is a null word. Meaningless. There is no necessity.

Expand on this please.

 

[angrymoose]

I have read the Tao te Ching, while it is a bit confusing in some parts, it is mostly easy to understand, but moving throughout life smoothly, that is something I need some advice on, maybe a few examples?

Well, learn to observe.

Look for people who are moving through life smoothly and learn tricks from them.

Study, learn, practice.

Try to find balance and look at things from different angles.

Confusing? Sure, living life is confusing but we have our brains. Its all good.

 

[angrymoose]

First of all, it isn't inactive in the least. It's fully active. I can see why you would see it appears to be inactive, but it IS flowing with the Tao, and flowing is movement, which is active.

Agree.

More towards your point, though, it is actually the easiest thing in the world. It is so infinitely simple that it does, often, seem difficult. But it is simplicity in a manner so simple as to be inexpressible. Ego, judgment, value, arrogance, self-consciousness, these are all learned actions. They are illusions that we have to choose to prop up. But we have a lot of practice propping them up, and very little practice NOT doing so. So we've forgotten how to release these illusions. Trying to release them is a mistake. It is impossible to succeed when you try. The reason I say it is the easiest thing in the world is that it is only possible when there is no effort, no will, no ATTEMPT to do it. It can only be done effortlessly.

Meh, half truth IMO. Following the Tao doesn't mean failing to learn or failing to practice.

Look at the Martial artists. 100% Taoists and much effort involved. Once you know what you are doing it often seems "effortless"!!!

Imagine the butcher who knows exactly where to cut the meat. Imagine the politician who knows how to navigate a bill through congress by making other politicians "look" good.

The flow? Yes. In essence, learning to understand how things work and using that knowledge to your advantage, rather than 'fighting' the way things are, is what its about.

 

[zenzero]

Friend angrymoose,

using that knowledge to your advantage

Though the rest of your post is in line with Taoism BUT this needs deeper understanding.
Here what comes out is that there is a perceiver or doer.
Taoism is all about merging complete and being in harmony with existence.
As soon as one uses the words *USE* & *ADVANTAGE* the duality comes up by default which are *USED BY* & *DISADVANTAGE*; meaning when one uses another is getting used and when it is to someone's advantage then it is to someone's disadvantage and this is disharmony where work towards harmonization or complete merger is essential to be one with TAO!

Love & rgds

 

[angrymoose]

Zero, please don't use the weird font. It drives me nuts. :O.

Though the rest of your post is in line with Taoism BUT this needs deeper understanding.

Perhaps, or perhaps you read something into my language that wasn't intended to be there. You have to be very careful not to get caught up by what people say to avoid seeing what they "mean".

Here what comes out is that there is a perceiver or doer.

Yes, I'm suggesting that the Taoist is a perceiver and that he uses his understanding of the Tao. The Tao, doesn't "prefer" one Taoist over another particularly, any more than the law of gravity preferred the British over the Germans.

I'd even go farther to suggest, when the Taoist is in competition, he may well indeed compete against somebody else who is (potentially) a Taoist.

<-- Both may be Taoists.

Chuang-Tzi had an example where a THIEF used his understanding of the Tao to steal from people better!!!

the duality comes up by default

Sure it does but the Taoist is himself and as an entity, he does have his own interests. For example, I'm interested in living and so I eat food.

In some contexts, I may indeed compete with other humans and as such, I might use my understanding of the Tao to win.

It goes without saying, that those same principles can be exploited by the other person to beat me. It is the nature of humans to compete sometimes.

which are *USED BY* & *DISADVANTAGE*; meaning when one uses another is getting used and when it is to someone's advantage then it is to someone's disadvantage

Not necessarily!!! Something to one person's advantage does not mean to another's disadvantage.

For example, if you eat something now, that is to your advantage. It doesn't mean that another human will have an advantage if you die.

Admittedly, if I eat an apple, it is to the advantage of the apple, not to be eaten. (Ironically, the species of apples WANTS to be eaten, in order for me to plant its seeds.)

and this is disharmony where work towards harmonization or complete merger is essential to be one with TAO!

It depends. The duality of the world is. Sometimes people compete and a bit of competition is "good". It is true too much competition has unpleasant effects.

For example, a side effect of wealth, is the existence of poverty. It would be nice to have less weath, if that meant less poverty. All the same, ..., I'm not sure.

 

[zenzero]

Friend angrymoose,

please don't use the weird font. It drives me nuts. :O.

IT is the way it IS!

I'd even go farther to suggest, when the Taoist is in competition, he may well indeed compete against somebody else who is (potentially) a Taoist.

Could you quote from Tao de Ching to confirm this statement?

For example, a side effect of wealth, is the existence of poverty. It would be nice to have less weath, if that meant less poverty. All the same, ..., I'm not sure.

Existence / Tao is sure that if one shares everything available with every other being there is never any shortage or accumulation. IT is balanced!

Love & rgds

 

[angrymoose]

Could you quote from Tao de Ching to confirm this statement?

The TTC is hardly the only book on Taoism. . Off the top of my head, I don't recall if any of his examples, happen to include people competing. Lao-tzi does however discuss being flexible as the river is flexible and the importance of adapting.

I believe the story of the master Thief, who uses an understanding of the Tao to steal from people is however taken from Chuang-Tzi.

Sun-Tzu, teaches a person to become a master general and generals compete against other generals.

Many martial artists employ the Tao and yet, they compete. The example I had in my mind was indeed two people competing at Tai-kwon-do.


Among Zen works, you could for example, read the book of 5 Rings which is totally about the art of competition in a Zen context.

Existence / Tao is sure that if one shares everything available with every other being there is never any shortage or accumulation. IT is balanced!

Yes, the Tao is balanced. The world is multi-faceted, multi-layered, etc.

In order for you to live, another being, perhaps a vegetable had to be eaten.

 

[zenzero]

Friend angrymoose,

In order for you to live, another being, perhaps a vegetable had to be eaten.

Kindly understand that we are all forms [individual energy] which are parts of the *whole* [universal energy] which is labelled TAO.
So all in all its all energy in different forms and no-forms.
Since energy is required to be replenished that is wasted the balance is achieved by transfer of energy forms from one to another.
This happens through eating of one specie by another.
Individual forms that reach the no-mind state become sensitive to the energies that flow and so are mostly *vegetarian* since life is tampered with at its minimum and even for that usually have heard they take permission from the plants before plucking and mostly live on fruits that fall from trees.

Love & rgds

 

[zenzero]

Friend angrymoose,

Have heard that Lao Tsu is the father of Taoism and that TTC is the bible, rest are by the followers of what was written and taught by Lao Tsu which evolved into some practices.

Love & rgds

 

[ellenjanuary]

The partial becomes complete; the crooked, straight;
The empty, full; the worn out, new.

He whose desires are few, gets them;
He whose desires are many goes astray.

Therefore, the Sage holds in his embrace the one thing of
humility, and manifests it to all the world. He is free from
self-display, and therefore he shines; from self-assertion,
and therefore he is distinguished; from self-boasting, and
therefore his merit is acknowledged; from self-complacency,
and therefore he acquires superiority. It is because he is thus
free from striving that therefore no one in the world is able
to strive with him. That saying of the ancients that "the
partial becomes complete" is not vainly spoken: all real
completion is comprehended under it.

~22, tao te ching. That about covers it.

(Dang it... someday I'm gonna have to show the pictures outta this thing...)

 

[angrymoose]

Friend angrymoose,

Have heard that Lao Tsu is the father of Taoism and that TTC is the bible, rest are by the followers of what was written and taught by Lao Tsu which evolved into some practices.

Love & rgds

THE YIN FU CHING. (Clue to the Unseen) <--- This is older than the Tao de Jing.

To observe the TAO of Heaven, and grasp its method of operation, is the limit of all achievement.
The root of Heaven is in TAO; and TAO being fixed, Heaven secures it and so brings about its transmutations. Principles have their root in circumstances, or facts; and facts being determined, it is Principles by which they are modified or varied. Thus Principles have no unvarying course, and facts no essential uniformity; both belong to the region of the unlimited. It is only by observing the TAO of Heaven, and grasping that, that the limit can be reached.
Thus Heaven has Five Despoilers: and he who perceives them will flourish.
There is no benefit intended towards man when the Five Atmospheric

 

[Alceste]

I have read the Tao te Ching, while it is a bit confusing in some parts, it is mostly easy to understand, but moving throughout life smoothly, that is something I need some advice on, maybe a few examples?

Perhaps if you think of wu-wei as effortless action rather than "inaction", it may help. The aim is not to become lazy and leave things that need doing undone. That would (paradoxically) take too much effort. A wise person does things at the moment they need doing. Before the moment arises, she doesn't wring her hands planning and worrying about it. When the moment arises, she does it. After the moment departs, she doesn't cling to her accomplishments or failures. She returns to a state of emptiness (clear-headedness, the empty vessel, the uncarved block, etc) to be ready for the next moment to arise. With a clear mind, her actions are effortless.

And, as a nice perk, you might find you can get a lot more done in a day.