Logic vs Belief

[Surya Deva]

I have noticed many times how people hold onto irrational beliefs(those which are made absurd by logic) even when in knowledge that their beliefs are not supported by logic. For example, certain Christian people insisting on the earth being 6000 years old, despite scientific evidence to the contrary - or some Hare Krishna people insisting that the moon landing was a hoax because its founder claimed life lived on the moon and vegetation grew there, and it was not found. This clearly indicates that there are some people who value belief more than logic.

Should one be willing to drop their beliefs as soon as it is contradicted by logic? I emphatically say Yes, but would like to see how others deal with the question.

 

[Fazl Ahmad]

The problem is that how can you claim to be a Christian, when Christianity teaches the Bible is the "inerrant Word of God" and not believe the Earth is approximately six thousand years old? Similarly, how can you continue to be a member of "Hare Krishna" society when you openly deny the beliefs propounded by its founder? The solution to all these problems is to find a religion which has no clashes with established science or logic. There is only one such religion, because there is only one religion which is the pure truth, and that is Islam.

 

[Oberon]

There is only one such religion, because there is only one religion which is the pure truth, and that is Islam.

How does Islam not contradict science (at times)? What about evolution, just as one example?

 

[Ashuri10]

The problem is that how can you claim to be a Christian, when Christianity teaches the Bible is the "inerrant Word of God" and not believe the Earth is approximately six thousand years old? Similarly, how can you continue to be a member of "Hare Krishna" society when you openly deny the beliefs propounded by its founder? The solution to all these problems is to find a religion which has no clashes with established science or logic. There is only one such religion, because there is only one religion which is the pure truth, and that is Islam.

That's a false statement, if you care to prove, be my guess.

 

[Scott1]

The problem is that how can you claim to be a Christian, when Christianity teaches the Bible is the "inerrant Word of God" and not believe the Earth is approximately six thousand years old?

The Bible "teaches" no such thing.......

There is only one such religion, because there is only one religion which is the pure truth, and that is Islam.

I have the feeling if you don't learn the rules of this forum, you're not gonna be allowed to post here for very long:
Rule #8. Proselytizing
The forums were set up for the purpose of sharing and understanding other religions and faiths, by discussion and debate. It is not to be used for converting others to your own faith. Or to place links or copy material from elsewhere, intended for this purpose. Such posts will be edited or removed and subject to moderation.

 

[Ashuri10]

I have the feeling if you don't learn the rules of this forum, you're not gonna be allowed to post here for very long:
Rule #8. Proselytizing
The forums were set up for the purpose of sharing and understanding other religions and faiths, by discussion and debate. It is not to be used for converting others to your own faith. Or to place links or copy material from elsewhere, intended for this purpose. Such posts will be edited or removed and subject to moderation.

I'm kind of hoping that the guys bend this rule so we can discuss these claims and show the real truth that Islam and Science are not on the same page.

 

[Scott1]

I'm kind of hoping that the guys bend this rule so we can discuss these claims and show the real truth that Islam and Science are not on the same page.

There are dozens of threads that this fellow can read that provide all the education he needs.... the problem with people like this, they don't actually read the replies --- just continue to post their claims over and over again.

 

[Oberon]

There are dozens of threads that this fellow can read that provide all the education he needs.... the problem with people like this, they don't actually read the replies --- just continue to post their claims over and over again.

None so blind as those that will not see, eh?

 

[Surya Deva]

The solution to all these problems is to find a religion which has no clashes with established science or logic.

I agree, this is why I am a Hindu

There is only one such religion..... and that is Islam.

Please don't my ignorance, but I've never thought of Islam being a scientific or logical religion. Isn't it very inconsistent, with the Prophet Mohammed ordaining that aduletry is wrong, yet supposely commiting adultery himself as said in the Hadith.
If this is true how do you reconcile this with logic?

 

[Fazl Ahmad]

Please don't my ignorance, but I've never thought of Islam being a scientific or logical religion. Isn't it very inconsistent, with the Prophet Mohammed ordaining that aduletry is wrong, yet supposely commiting adultery himself as said in the Hadith.If this is true how do you reconcile this with logic?

I think what you meant to say was "pardon my ignorance", and the Prophet Muhammad (alaihi salatu wa salam) NEVER committed adultery, there is no hadith which says such a thing.

 

[darkendless]

I agree, this is why I am a Hindu

Please don't my ignorance, but I've never thought of Islam being a scientific or logical religion. Isn't it very inconsistent, with the Prophet Mohammed ordaining that aduletry is wrong, yet supposely commiting adultery himself as said in the Hadith.
If this is true how do you reconcile this with logic?

Google The Quran and Science. Many biblical quotes "suggest" that modern scientific technigques were set down in the Quran. However as always they are very loose statements that could be taken a number of ways, it was just convenient to state one over another.
I also have a problem with this, if the Quran stated it so long ago, why is it modern science? Shouldn't the Islamic world be the leaders in science?

 

[Ashuri10]

Google The Quran and Science. Many biblical quotes "suggest" that modern scientific technigques were set down in the Quran. However as always they are very loose statements that could be taken a number of ways, it was just convenient to state one over another.
I also have a problem with this, if the Quran stated it so long ago, why is it modern science? Shouldn't the Islamic world be the leaders in science?

Because there was no technology back in the day to prove it, and now that we have high technology to actually prove this, people went back and looked up these claims.

The problem with these verses is that these claims have been actually mentioned by civilizations such as the Greeks, Babylonians, Sumerians, Romans and so on which are all much older than Islam, perhaps they had the right God

Another problem is a lot of them actually don't agree with modern science, and on top of all, as you mentioned, these verses can be explained in different ways.

 

[Riverwolf]

The problem is that how can you claim to be a Christian, when Christianity teaches the Bible is the "inerrant Word of God" ...

No where in the Bible is this stated. It was priests later who decided that since they all agreed on which books were to be canonized(which they later disagreed upon, anyway, with the books commonly called the Apocrypha), their decision must have been from God.

FYI, the Bible isn't a single book, like the Qur'an, and never does it claim to be; it's a library of books, and a highly censored one at that.

 

[Willamena]

I have noticed many times how people hold onto irrational beliefs(those which are made absurd by logic) even when in knowledge that their beliefs are not supported by logic. For example, certain Christian people insisting on the earth being 6000 years old, despite scientific evidence to the contrary - or some Hare Krishna people insisting that the moon landing was a hoax because its founder claimed life lived on the moon and vegetation grew there, and it was not found. This clearly indicates that there are some people who value belief more than logic.

Should one be willing to drop their beliefs as soon as it is contradicted by logic? I emphatically say Yes, but would like to see how others deal with the question.

I have noticed many times how people hold onto (their) irrational beliefs (those that I don't understand) even when in (my) knowledge that their beliefs are not supported by (my) logic. Go figure! What's wrong with them?

In my belief, one should be willing to drop a belief as soon as it is contradicted by their logic.

 

[ChristineES]

I think people have a right to believe in whatever they want, no matter how illogical others find it.

 

[darkendless]

I think people have a right to believe in whatever they want, no matter how illogical others find it.

Could some belief systems be considered dangerous, such as believing God is a healer and will prevent infections becomming harmful to a persons life? Then again i guess Logic and common sense are two different things again.

 

[ChristineES]

Could some belief systems be considered dangerous, such as believing God is a healer and will prevent infections becoming harmful to a persons life? Then again i guess Logic and common sense are two different things again.

That is true, logic and common sense are not the same thing.

If something is dangerous to someone else and even to ones self then it would be illegal. If it is illegal, then the person is punished by the law of the land. That person will still hold that belief in prison or in a mental hospital.
If someone harms another person because of their faith or causes a child to not be treated by a treatable illness is not tolerated in the law of the land (or by me and most others)-- as we have seen.
No matter what faith we believe in, we still are obligated to obey the laws of the land or be punished by those laws. But obeying the law doesn't take away a person's belief or faith by any means.

I certainly hope I making sense here.

 

[little_monkey]

I have noticed many times how people hold onto irrational beliefs(those which are made absurd by logic) even when in knowledge that their beliefs are not supported by logic. For example, certain Christian people insisting on the earth being 6000 years old, despite scientific evidence to the contrary - or some Hare Krishna people insisting that the moon landing was a hoax because its founder claimed life lived on the moon and vegetation grew there, and it was not found. This clearly indicates that there are some people who value belief more than logic.

Should one be willing to drop their beliefs as soon as it is contradicted by logic? I emphatically say Yes, but would like to see how others deal with the question.

Generally speaking, I would say yes, but...

Take for example at the beginning of the 20th century, when experiments began to show that electrons, particles of matter, could exhibit wave properties; and electromagnetic waves show particles traits. Now that was a logical contradiction: how can a thing be A and non-A? How can a particle be a wave, and vice-versa, when the two are mutually exclusive?

Scientists could have thrown their arms in the air and give up to do other things, like windsurfing.

But they didn't. Out of those turmoil years, Quantum Mechanics was developed to face up to those contradictions, and science and technology progressed afterwards at prodigious speed.

 

[Halcyon]

Shouldn't the Islamic world be the leaders in science?

They were for a very long time, and invented or recovered much of the science and technology we take for granted today.

I have noticed many times how people hold onto irrational beliefs(those which are made absurd by logic) even when in knowledge that their beliefs are not supported by logic. For example, certain Christian people insisting on the earth being 6000 years old, despite scientific evidence to the contrary - or some Hare Krishna people insisting that the moon landing was a hoax because its founder claimed life lived on the moon and vegetation grew there, and it was not found. This clearly indicates that there are some people who value belief more than logic.

Should one be willing to drop their beliefs as soon as it is contradicted by logic? I emphatically say Yes, but would like to see how others deal with the question.

I agree with you. People should let go of a belief if it is plainly contradicted by either science or commonplace evidence.

In my experience holding onto a belief that has been proven unfounded can cause great internal suffering via a condition called cognitive dissonance.

 

[ChristineES]

There is a problem with that-- The discovery of atoms (I got an A in Chemistry), and all those other things doesn't disprove God to me. I can't deny that it disproves God to a lot of other folks but not to me.

I don't think science and religion really contradict each other, and neither are they compatible or incompatible. They just are not related.