Looking for meaningful conversations

[amatuerscholar]

A bit about me. I grew up in a fundamentalist house, where I was groomed to be a minister. At 18, I was ordained, but the church I was at really had fallen a part and new leadership was brought in, so I was out.

I rebelled, and converted to Judaism. I also toyed around a bit with Islam, and converted for a short while to it, before becoming a militant atheist. I can assure you I was incredibly annoying.

But then I met my wife, and started going back to church. I became more agnostic, and eventually agnostic theist. I ended up going to college for Religious Studies and History, while minoring in Greek and Classics. I did that in a roundabout way as when I was getting my associates, I couldn't really make my mind up. I studied psychology, criminal justice, secondary education, and literature. I spent way too much time getting my associates. But that led me to a Bachelors program, that I also spent way too much time on.

Now I'm beginning to pursue a Master's in Theology. I had a chance to go about it in a unique manner, but currently I'm working on a large argument in regards to the existence of God. The assignment was to create an argument about God, whether God exists or not, and if God does exist, about God's morality and it's connection with us. It's a lot to take on, but the point was to push me.

I'm nearing the end of the first part, with the conclusion that it is probable that God exists, and that faith can be rationale. Definitely not what I thought the conclusion was, but it's where the research is leading.

Other than that, I'm married, and have 3 kids. My middle child, when he was 2, was diagnosed with cancer, but is now cancer free. We still have regular CT scans, but they have been clear so far. My oldest son loves reading and sports. Then my youngest son is now just 2 and is a terror. But he makes our family very happy as well.

 

[Skwim]

.

Welcome to RF.


.

 

[Heyo]

Hi amatuerscholar (is that typo deliberate?),

agnostic theist - sounds interesting. I call myself an Agnostic (Huxley style) and of course I think that belief in "god" can't be rational. I'd like to read your reasoning. God proofs are always fun and sometimes even challenging and there hasn't been a new one for ages.

Welcome to RF

 

[sun rise]

Welcome to RF.

The assignment was to create an argument about God, whether God exists or not, and if God does exist, about God's morality and it's connection with us. It's a lot to take on, but the point was to push me.

Are you writing from a particular theological frame-of-reference? Because the East and West have very different ways of approaching those fundamental questions.

 

[ChristineM]

Hi there, welcome to RF, sit back and enjoy the cake

I am sure that when the staff canteen is open for free breakfast @Revoltingest will be drumming up business.

As an atheist i don't think i can help with your work but i look forward to a chat or two.

 

[osgart]

Hi to you there, have you read any Edward Feser and 'Five Proofs for The Existence of God' ?

 

[PureX]

I am also an agnostic theist (non-religious). Agnostic because of the limitations of human experience and intellect, and theist by choice (based on the possibility of God's existence, and on the subjective results of trusting in those possibilities).

If I were to attempt any sort of argument in favor of the actual existence of "God", I would do it from an existential perspective. That is that existence requires order and complexity to manifest, and it also requires ongoing effort to maintain. The source and sustenance of this 'ordered energy' is the mystery we that humans generally refer to as "God", and the effort expended in maintaining it (it's better to exist than not to exist) would define it's will, or purpose.

I am assuming, here, that the question of "God" is not just one of existence, but also of God's character, or will (as related to us).

Welcome to RF, by the way.

 

[Revoltingest]

Greetings!

I have an MBSCSDD.
(Less literate posters could google "Mordecai C Jones" for info on that degree.)
To earn it, I wrote a thesis on the existence of God.

Spoiler: My Thesis

Who is to say if there is that one "God" or many or none at all?

Now for free refreshments in the staff cafeteria!

 

[Heyo]

To earn it, wrote a thesis on the existence of God.

That reminds me of my own proof for the existence of god, rarely even challenged and never disproved:

Premise1: Clapton is god.
Evidence: see below*
Conclusion: God exists (and is real).

*:

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Shalom and welcome.

BTW, any chance that the following is a Freudian slip?

I'm nearing the end of the first part, with the conclusion that it is probable that God exists, and that faith can be rationale.

 

[icehorse]

A bit about me. I grew up in a fundamentalist house, where I was groomed to be a minister. At 18, I was ordained, but the church I was at really had fallen a part and new leadership was brought in, so I was out.

I rebelled, and converted to Judaism. I also toyed around a bit with Islam, and converted for a short while to it, before becoming a militant atheist. I can assure you I was incredibly annoying.

But then I met my wife, and started going back to church. I became more agnostic, and eventually agnostic theist. I ended up going to college for Religious Studies and History, while minoring in Greek and Classics. I did that in a roundabout way as when I was getting my associates, I couldn't really make my mind up. I studied psychology, criminal justice, secondary education, and literature. I spent way too much time getting my associates. But that led me to a Bachelors program, that I also spent way too much time on.

Now I'm beginning to pursue a Master's in Theology. I had a chance to go about it in a unique manner, but currently I'm working on a large argument in regards to the existence of God. The assignment was to create an argument about God, whether God exists or not, and if God does exist, about God's morality and it's connection with us. It's a lot to take on, but the point was to push me.

I'm nearing the end of the first part, with the conclusion that it is probable that God exists, and that faith can be rationale. Definitely not what I thought the conclusion was, but it's where the research is leading.

Other than that, I'm married, and have 3 kids. My middle child, when he was 2, was diagnosed with cancer, but is now cancer free. We still have regular CT scans, but they have been clear so far. My oldest son loves reading and sports. Then my youngest son is now just 2 and is a terror. But he makes our family very happy as well.

Welcome!

If you bring up interesting perspectives, I think you'll get some meaningful conversations.

 

[Harel13]

Welcome!

I rebelled, and converted to Judaism.

Just out of curiosity, which sort of conversion did you do? (Orthodox/Reform/Conservative/other)?

 

[metis]

A bit about me. I grew up in a fundamentalist house, where I was groomed to be a minister. At 18, I was ordained, but the church I was at really had fallen a part and new leadership was brought in, so I was out.

I rebelled, and converted to Judaism. I also toyed around a bit with Islam, and converted for a short while to it, before becoming a militant atheist. I can assure you I was incredibly annoying.

But then I met my wife, and started going back to church. I became more agnostic, and eventually agnostic theist. I ended up going to college for Religious Studies and History, while minoring in Greek and Classics. I did that in a roundabout way as when I was getting my associates, I couldn't really make my mind up. I studied psychology, criminal justice, secondary education, and literature. I spent way too much time getting my associates. But that led me to a Bachelors program, that I also spent way too much time on.

Now I'm beginning to pursue a Master's in Theology. I had a chance to go about it in a unique manner, but currently I'm working on a large argument in regards to the existence of God. The assignment was to create an argument about God, whether God exists or not, and if God does exist, about God's morality and it's connection with us. It's a lot to take on, but the point was to push me.

I'm nearing the end of the first part, with the conclusion that it is probable that God exists, and that faith can be rationale. Definitely not what I thought the conclusion was, but it's where the research is leading.

Other than that, I'm married, and have 3 kids. My middle child, when he was 2, was diagnosed with cancer, but is now cancer free. We still have regular CT scans, but they have been clear so far. My oldest son loves reading and sports. Then my youngest son is now just 2 and is a terror. But he makes our family very happy as well.

My approach has been "Whatever created this universe/multiverse I'll call 'God' and pretty much just leave it at that".

BTW, I had converted to Judaism and stayed there for 20+ years, but then converted back to Catholicism a bit over 2 years ago.

 

[Kenny]

A bit about me. I grew up in a fundamentalist house, where I was groomed to be a minister. At 18, I was ordained, but the church I was at really had fallen a part and new leadership was brought in, so I was out.

I rebelled, and converted to Judaism. I also toyed around a bit with Islam, and converted for a short while to it, before becoming a militant atheist. I can assure you I was incredibly annoying.

But then I met my wife, and started going back to church. I became more agnostic, and eventually agnostic theist. I ended up going to college for Religious Studies and History, while minoring in Greek and Classics. I did that in a roundabout way as when I was getting my associates, I couldn't really make my mind up. I studied psychology, criminal justice, secondary education, and literature. I spent way too much time getting my associates. But that led me to a Bachelors program, that I also spent way too much time on.

Now I'm beginning to pursue a Master's in Theology. I had a chance to go about it in a unique manner, but currently I'm working on a large argument in regards to the existence of God. The assignment was to create an argument about God, whether God exists or not, and if God does exist, about God's morality and it's connection with us. It's a lot to take on, but the point was to push me.

I'm nearing the end of the first part, with the conclusion that it is probable that God exists, and that faith can be rationale. Definitely not what I thought the conclusion was, but it's where the research is leading.

Other than that, I'm married, and have 3 kids. My middle child, wWOW!hen he was 2, was diagnosed with cancer, but is now cancer free. We still have regular CT scans, but they have been clear so far. My oldest son loves reading and sports. Then my youngest son is now just 2 and is a terror. But he makes our family very happy as well.

WOW!! That certainly is a journey.

My faith journey began at 28. My parents never went to a church and eventually got divorced. Handed the reigns of my life to Jesus and got my life turned right-side up. Never would have believed the end result... now I am a pastor and certainly believe there is a God.

Happy that your middle child is still cancer free!!

 

[amatuerscholar]

Hi amatuerscholar (is that typo deliberate?),

agnostic theist - sounds interesting. I call myself an Agnostic (Huxley style) and of course I think that belief in "god" can't be rational. I'd like to read your reasoning. God proofs are always fun and sometimes even challenging and there hasn't been a new one for ages.

Welcome to RF

The typo was just a slip. I do a lot of my web surfacing on a Surface 3 tablet, and I just assume, because I can't always see the screen clearly, that my spelling is top notch. Which I really should know better, as I also don't often proofread what I write, and that was one of the major criticism my teachers have had. A misspelled word, not too bad. A paragraph that all of a sudden drops off, and then merges into a completely different thought, quite bad.

Welcome to RF.



Are you writing from a particular theological frame-of-reference? Because the East and West have very different ways of approaching those fundamental questions.

I think it may be easier to say who my main influences are in this. First, I'm drawing a lot from Wolfhart Pannenberg. I'm also taking some from Ernest Simmons. and Terence Fretheim. A lot of the people I'm working from have a Lutheran background, and are associated with the ELCA. My bachelors work was also through a Lutheran based college.

I'm also flirting a bit with process theology, as well as liberation theology. So largely western theology. However, my goal is to introduce a bit of eastern theology in it as well, but I want to do so carefully because I don't want to misrepresent eastern philosophies.

Shalom and welcome.

BTW, any chance that the following is a Freudian slip?

​

Well, that's egg on my face. First I misspell my user name and now the e. I'm going to blame it on watching too much British TV. Maybe that isn't much better.

Welcome!

Just out of curiosity, which sort of conversion did you do? (Orthodox/Reform/Conservative/other)?

I converted to Conservative Judaism, but I lived in the Midwest, so I ended up closer to Reform Judaism in practice. The nearest synagogue to me was 3 hours away, and it was a Reform synagogue.

 

[sun rise]

I think it may be easier to say who my main influences are in this. First, I'm drawing a lot from Wolfhart Pannenberg. I'm also taking some from Ernest Simmons. and Terence Fretheim. A lot of the people I'm working from have a Lutheran background, and are associated with the ELCA. My bachelors work was also through a Lutheran based college.

The background to my question was my thought that to say that God exists and to bring in morality brings up the question of God's nature. Is God immanent or transcendent or both transcending the duality of immanence and transcendence?

Christians typically have one frame-of-reference to address this although, of course, some might focus on "I am that I am" and reflect that God's nature is beyond the rational mind.

Morality also necessarily involves a view. If one sees the duality of God being separate from humans, then morality has one path. If the view is that we are all God but are, as it were, dreaming, then that casts a different light on the question.

And a belief in reincarnation and karma (sowing and reaping) changes how might view pain and pleasure in any given life and thus reflect on morality as a topic.

 

[Maximus]

A bit about me. I grew up in a fundamentalist house, where I was groomed to be a minister. At 18, I was ordained, but the church I was at really had fallen a part and new leadership was brought in, so I was out.

I rebelled, and converted to Judaism. I also toyed around a bit with Islam, and converted for a short while to it, before becoming a militant atheist. I can assure you I was incredibly annoying.

But then I met my wife, and started going back to church. I became more agnostic, and eventually agnostic theist. I ended up going to college for Religious Studies and History, while minoring in Greek and Classics. I did that in a roundabout way as when I was getting my associates, I couldn't really make my mind up. I studied psychology, criminal justice, secondary education, and literature. I spent way too much time getting my associates. But that led me to a Bachelors program, that I also spent way too much time on.

Now I'm beginning to pursue a Master's in Theology. I had a chance to go about it in a unique manner, but currently I'm working on a large argument in regards to the existence of God. The assignment was to create an argument about God, whether God exists or not, and if God does exist, about God's morality and it's connection with us. It's a lot to take on, but the point was to push me.

I'm nearing the end of the first part, with the conclusion that it is probable that God exists, and that faith can be rationale. Definitely not what I thought the conclusion was, but it's where the research is leading.

Other than that, I'm married, and have 3 kids. My middle child, when he was 2, was diagnosed with cancer, but is now cancer free. We still have regular CT scans, but they have been clear so far. My oldest son loves reading and sports. Then my youngest son is now just 2 and is a terror. But he makes our family very happy as well.

"...God exists, and that faith can be rationale"

You are on the right path, keep it up. There is no conflict between faith and reason, in fact you can't really have one without the other.

Good luck

 

[Cooky]

.

Welcome to RF.


.

Can we not try and ruin this one..?

 

[Nimos]

A bit about me. I grew up in a fundamentalist house, where I was groomed to be a minister. At 18, I was ordained, but the church I was at really had fallen a part and new leadership was brought in, so I was out.

I rebelled, and converted to Judaism. I also toyed around a bit with Islam, and converted for a short while to it, before becoming a militant atheist. I can assure you I was incredibly annoying.

But then I met my wife, and started going back to church. I became more agnostic, and eventually agnostic theist.

Welcome

Just wondering, since you seem to have been a bit all over the place, did you ever consider yourself a true believer in any of them or did you always have doubt? Or what made you change from lets say Judaism to Islam? And especially what made you change from militant atheist back to a theist? Because it seems like you are going from one extreme to another or maybe just a good amount of the way, so to speak?

The reason I ask is because im an atheist my self, but do not consider my self a militant one or being part of the new atheism tendency, which are actively trying to stop religion. Im probably somewhere between, so it just seems like you went on a huge rollercoaster ride, can you expand on that?

 

[danieldemol]

A bit about me. I grew up in a fundamentalist house, where I was groomed to be a minister. At 18, I was ordained, but the church I was at really had fallen a part and new leadership was brought in, so I was out.

I rebelled, and converted to Judaism. I also toyed around a bit with Islam, and converted for a short while to it, before becoming a militant atheist. I can assure you I was incredibly annoying.

But then I met my wife, and started going back to church. I became more agnostic, and eventually agnostic theist. I ended up going to college for Religious Studies and History, while minoring in Greek and Classics. I did that in a roundabout way as when I was getting my associates, I couldn't really make my mind up. I studied psychology, criminal justice, secondary education, and literature. I spent way too much time getting my associates. But that led me to a Bachelors program, that I also spent way too much time on.

Now I'm beginning to pursue a Master's in Theology. I had a chance to go about it in a unique manner, but currently I'm working on a large argument in regards to the existence of God. The assignment was to create an argument about God, whether God exists or not, and if God does exist, about God's morality and it's connection with us. It's a lot to take on, but the point was to push me.

I'm nearing the end of the first part, with the conclusion that it is probable that God exists, and that faith can be rationale. Definitely not what I thought the conclusion was, but it's where the research is leading.

Other than that, I'm married, and have 3 kids. My middle child, when he was 2, was diagnosed with cancer, but is now cancer free. We still have regular CT scans, but they have been clear so far. My oldest son loves reading and sports. Then my youngest son is now just 2 and is a terror. But he makes our family very happy as well.

Welcome to RF

I know what it’s like to grow up in a fundamentalist type family, but Judaism and Islam never really appealed to me.

I’m just happy to consider myself an Abrahamic liberal and leave it at that pretty much.

Although I believe in God I don’t know of any proof of God, so will be interested to hear what you have to about it