Lord Shiva devotees only: What is your experience?

[Chakra]

Now I'm curious. For those of you on this thread who are seeing Siva as other than the Supreme God, just who then, for you, is the Supreme God?

I am thinking we may not be worshiping the same Siva. (Which is fine, but it's a different understanding.)

Even though I still worship Lord Shiva, I see Vishnu/Krishna as the Supreme God. I am a beginner Vaisnava however, having converted to Vaisnavism from other types of Hinduism very recently.

(I only posted in this thread because I thought any worshiper of Lord Shiva could post miracles/experieces, but since I am not a Saivite, do tell me if my posts are in the wrong place. I would be happy to delete them if they are inappropriate.)

 

[Vinayaka]

Even though I still worship Lord Shiva, I see Vishnu/Krishna as the Supreme God. I am a beginner Vaisnava however, having converted to Vaisnavism from other types of Hinduism very recently.

(I only posted in this thread because I thought any worshiper of Lord Shiva could post miracles/experieces, but since I am not a Saivite, do tell me if my posts are in the wrong place. I would be happy to delete them if they are inappropriate.)

It's not my thread, so it makes no difference to me. I was just curious.

I know that some Vaishnavites see Siva as a separate God, some even as a demigod, or lesser God. I don't think that's the view of all Vaishnavites.

For monistic Saivites like me, it's all the same God ... Siva with a different name. So the two are not two at the core, it just appears that way when looked at externally. But Saivites primarily stick to the forms that are named Siva, for simplicity, or focus reasons.

 

[Chakra]

It's not my thread, so it makes no difference to me. I was just curious.

I know that some Vaishnavites see Siva as a separate God, some even as a demigod, or lesser God. I don't think that's the view of all Vaishnavites.

For monistic Saivites like me, it's all the same God ... Siva with a different name. So the two are not two at the core, it just appears that way when looked at externally. But Saivites primarily stick the the forms that are named Siva, for simplicity, or focus reasons.

Ah, I see. That is true, not all Vaishnavites think of Shiva as a Jiva, maybe as an aspect of the Divine. It is the consensus of Vaisnava that Shiva is at a lesser position than Vishnu.

(Also, do you belong to Kashmiri Saivism? I was thinking this, but I am not sure, since that sect is monistic, right?)

 

[Vinayaka]

(Also, do you belong to Kashmiri Saivism? I was thinking this, but I am not sure, since that sect is monistic, right?)

There are two divisions in Saiva Siddhanta ... pluralistic, and monistic. I'm in the latter. But we have a ton in common with Kashmir Saivism.

 

[Aupmanyav]

My problem is that I do not want to be God or a god .

Oh no. I am not a God. I am an atheist 'advaitist' Hindu. I do not even believe is existence of soul, Gods, miracles, creation, birth, death, heaven, hell, etc. I am very much human with all the frailties of humans. I smoke, I like liquor and I am a non-vegetarian. Is not 'the primary observer' an illusion?

 

[mystic64]

Oh no. I am not a God. I am an atheist 'advaitist' Hindu. I do not even believe is existence of soul, Gods, miracles, creation, birth, death, heaven, hell, etc. I am very much human with all the frailties of humans. I smoke, I like liquor and I am a non-vegetarian. Is not 'the primary observer' an illusion?

Aupmanyav , you seem to be trying to explain to me that you do not belong in this topic: "Devotees and Friends of Shiva and your experience with Shiva." But at the sametime activity is the life of a message board and "one" resident "atheist" in a religious topic does add a certain dimension to things . But please be aware that there is a part of me that is, "a destroyer of worlds ". And just because one does not believe in something does not necessarily mean that it is not real. Ok ?

Shiva as illusion? The primary observer creates the illusion that gives you the permission to consider "it" illusion. And all is well relative to your approach to things as long as that continues to happen.

 

[mystic64]

Now I'm curious. For those of you on this thread who are seeing Siva as other than the Supreme God, just who then, for you, is the Supreme God?

I am thinking we may not be worshiping the same Siva. (Which is fine, but it's a different understanding.)

I heard that question . And I have been thinking about it. And my answer at this time would have to be that I do not worship, in the traditional sense, a "supreme being". And I do not worship Shiva, he is just my father and we love each other. And our relationship has nothing to do with religion. But because that sounds weird and delusional I do not talk about it. So for the public approach to things Shiva and I are just good friends. Which we are. And to me the "surpreme being" does not ask to be worshipped, it just wishes to share its adventure with those that wish to be its children.

 

[mystic64]

In Saivism, there are generally two prerequisites to being a Guru as well. (Besides the obvious - some degree of 'attained' spirituality.) Self-appointed doesn't really go down well, but it may well have a place, just not in orthodox lineages.

So one requirement is to be given initiation (diksha) as a Guru by the previous Guru in the same lineage. The other is to be asked to teach by someone. Otherwise its sort of against 'the rules'.

Vinayaka, I understand the rules and those rules need to be maintained if some kind of continuity and quality control is going to be maintained. All traditions carry a "map" to the Divine and if one follows that "map" they will achieve the Divine. If of course the "Divine" is their goal. And I agree that "self appointed does not go down well," and in my opinion in orthodox or the other . Period. And, anyone that takes on the responsibility of Guru is liable for those that are under their care and they are liable in a "cosmic" sense. And in my opinion this is not to be taken lightly. Period!

And all of these "maps" toward the Divine also result in unexplained abilities that can be used for self gain and self power. So , not everyone should have access to those "maps" because the knowledge that they lead to can be missused. One example is the proper raising of the male kundalini, which your tradition teaches does not exist. The male kundalini is absolute power with no heart. But that is just one example of many examples.

So anyway Vinayaka, I am not a Guru or want to be one. I am just an old mystic wandering around loose . And am just really good friends with Shiva whatever it is that he ultimately is.

 

[Vinayaka]

And to me the "surpreme being" does not ask to be worshipped, it just wishes to share its adventure with those that wish to be its children.

I agree. I worship Siva because I want to, not because He wants me to. In Hinduism, our worship is all about a 'beckoning'. So we call Him to come to be our friend, our father, our Guru, etc. And, in the mystic realities of Agamic temple worship, He comes ... in a big way. So do the devas, etc. So His presence can be felt, enjoyed, etc. in an ancient Siva temple more than any other place on the planet. That's the magic. Ramana Maharshi spent most of His time in the sanctum sanctorum of Arunaleswarar Siva temple, before moving out to sit at the edge of Arunachala.

And here's another question ...Just how do you know it's Siva? (Maybe you already answered that, I can't remember.)

 

[Chakra]

It's not my thread, so it makes no difference to me. I was just curious.

I know that some Vaishnavites see Siva as a separate God, some even as a demigod, or lesser God. I don't think that's the view of all Vaishnavites.

For monistic Saivites like me, it's all the same God ... Siva with a different name. So the two are not two at the core, it just appears that way when looked at externally. But Saivites primarily stick to the forms that are named Siva, for simplicity, or focus reasons.

Hmm, so Shiva is Vishnu? Is Shiva (Umapati) the highest form of God for you, with him becoming all entities in the universe or is there a Brahman that is greater and pure consciousness such as the one from Advaita Vedanta? I have seen many people chant things like "shivO ham" which made me think that "Shiva" is just the Brahman mentioned in Advaita.

Regards

 

[Vinayaka]

Hmm, so Shiva is Vishnu? Is Shiva (Umapati) the highest form of God for you, with him becoming all entities in the universe or is there a Brahman that is greater and pure consciousness such as the one from Advaita Vedanta? I have seen many people chant things like "shivO ham" which made me think that "Shiva" is just the Brahman mentioned in Advaita.

Regards

Nataraja's upheld hand, with palm forward, represents sustaining grace, which is the 'Vishnu' principle. At the core, they're one and the same.

That Brahman, or better ParaBrahman is called ParaSiva in Saivism. So there is nothing greater. It's the same thing by a different name.

We are not in disagreemant with Advaita, but the focus is different. In Advaita the focus is the end, the goal, whereas in Saiva Siddhanta the focus is on how to get there. But the ultimate conclusions are the same.

There is no 'highest form'. We worship Him in 3 perfections, all perfect. None is 'higher' than the other.

These days Advaita, especially in the west, has morphed and been simplified into an intellectual statement.

Monistic Saiva Siddhanta is sometimes referred to as Advaita Siddhanta.

 

[Chakra]

Nataraja's upheld hand, with palm forward, represents sustaining grace, which is the 'Vishnu' principle. At the core, they're one and the same.

That Brahman, or better ParaBrahman is called ParaSiva in Saivism. So there is nothing greater. It's the same thing by a different name.

We are not in disagreemant with Advaita, but the focus is different. In Advaita the focus is the end, the goal, whereas in Saiva Siddhanta the focus is on how to get there. But the ultimate conclusions are the same.

There is no 'highest form'. We worship Him in 3 perfections, all perfect. None is 'higher' than the other.

These days Advaita, especially in the west, has morphed and been simplified into an intellectual statement.

Monistic Saiva Siddhanta is sometimes referred to as Advaita Siddhanta.

Ah, I am starting to understand this. However, do Vishnu or Brahma or others have a separate existence of their own or are the just manifestations of ParaSiva. Also, is the Rudra Shiva also a manifestation of ParaSiva/SadaSiva? Thanks.

 

[mystic64]

Ah, I am starting to understand this. However, do Vishnu or Brahma or others have a separate existence of their own or are the just manifestations of ParaSiva. Also, is the Rudra Shiva also a manifestation of ParaSiva/SadaSiva? Thanks.

! One does wonder about these things .

 

[mystic64]

I agree. I worship Siva because I want to, not because He wants me to. In Hinduism, our worship is all about a 'beckoning'. So we call Him to come to be our friend, our father, our Guru, etc. And, in the mystic realities of Agamic temple worship, He comes ... in a big way. So do the devas, etc. So His presence can be felt, enjoyed, etc. in an ancient Siva temple more than any other place on the planet. That's the magic. Ramana Maharshi spent most of His time in the sanctum sanctorum of Arunaleswarar Siva temple, before moving out to sit at the edge of Arunachala.

And here's another question ...Just how do you know it's Siva? (Maybe you already answered that, I can't remember.)

Good question . Humm? You mentioned something about how do we know that we are all taking about the same entiy? After all we are dealing with two diferent names here and the very shiftyness of the nature of illusion . Lord Shiva has the ability to take on many forms and to use this ability to approach folks in a way that they can understand. And there are entities that can appear as one or more other entities. So ultimately how does one know?

Well one way of answering that is that the proof is in the pudding should one wish to take the pudding out of the oven. Another way of answering is the having of a lot of experience with shifty entities attempting to pass themselves of as something that they are not. Another way of answering is that I am extremely empathic and can samadhi more or less with anything and experience its true nature. The only problem with that is that sometimes shaking the experience off can be a bit of a challenge . So generally I start with a quiet tentative mind contact to get a feel for what I am dealing with. Another answer is that I just go to God and He tells me . That always works.

And one could also answer that that question is a part of the reason for the why of this topic . Does the Shiva that I am experiencing have any of the same qualities as the Shiva that others are experiencing? Axlyz and I are experiencing the same Shiva . Her and I are beyond a shadow of a doubt experiencing the same Shiva. And in the past the experiences of others that I have visited with who approach things through the name Siva have not been the same as my experiences. Which then brings up the possibility that Shiva and Siva may not be the same entity even though they are claimed by folks to be. To be honest with you Vinayaka I do not really know because of Shiva's ability to change aspects. But I do know this, the Shiva that I am experiencing is the same Shiva that Axlyz is experiencing. And the feeling is so close that it feels like we are brother and sister in a spiritual sense.

Some folks claim that Shiva is a demon and I have been accused of being like a demon also . A Kriya yoga guru that I was visiting with and was friends with posted one time that I was like the demon that was loved by Brahman because of his persistance. The Shiva I know can be a bit of a demon if someone with a dark heart is messing with one of his "beloved" .

 

[Chakra]

Good question . Humm? You mentioned something about how do we know that we are all taking about the same entiy? After all we are dealing with two diferent names here and the very shiftyness of the nature of illusion . Lord Shiva has the ability to take on many forms and to use this ability to approach folks in a way that they can understand. And there are entities that can appear as one or more other entities. So ultimately how does one know?

Well one way of answering that is that the proof is in the pudding should one wish to take the pudding out of the oven. Another way of answering is the having of a lot of experience with shifty entities attempting to pass themselves of as something that they are not. Another way of answering is that I am extremely empathic and can samadhi more or less with anything and experience its true nature. The only problem with that is that sometimes shaking the experience off can be a bit of a challenge . So generally I start with a quiet tentative mind contact to get a feel for what I am dealing with. Another answer is that I just go to God and He tells me . That always works.

And one could also answer that that question is a part of the reason for the why of this topic . Does the Shiva that I am experiencing have any of the same qualities as the Shiva that others are experiencing? Axlyz and I are experiencing the same Shiva . Her and I are beyond a shadow of a doubt experiencing the same Shiva. And in the past the experiences of others that I have visited with who approach things through the name Siva have not been the same as my experiences. Which then brings up the possibility that Shiva and Siva may not be the same entity even though they are claimed by folks to be. To be honest with you Vinayaka I do not really know because of Shiva's ability to change aspects. But I do know this, the Shiva that I am experiencing is the same Shiva that Axlyz is experiencing. And the feeling is so close that it feels like we are brother and sister in a spiritual sense.

Some folks claim that Shiva is a demon and I have been accused of being like a demon also . A Kriya yoga guru that I was visiting with and was friends with posted one time that I was like the demon that was loved by Brahman because of his persistance. The Shiva I know can be a bit of a demon if someone with a dark heart is messing with one of his "beloved" .

Yeah, this is a problem that occurs in many aspects of our lives. Color is one example. Not everyone sees red in the same way. Likewise, our perception of Shiva is clouded with our material ideas. As far as I am concerned, I look at Shiva as how the Bhagavata Purana describes him.

"Śrī Mārkaṇḍeya saw Lord Śiva suddenly appear within his heart. Lord Śiva’s golden hair resembled lightning, and he had three eyes, ten arms and a tall body that shone like the rising sun. He wore a tiger skin, and he carried a trident, a bow, arrows, a sword and a shield, along with prayer beads, a ḍamaru drum, a skull and an ax. Astonished, the sage came out of his trance and thought, “Who is this, and where has he come from?”

However, we can only wait until Shiva reveals himself to us, only then we will know who/what Shiva is, because he is very complex.

 

[mystic64]

Yeah, this is a problem that occurs in many aspects of our lives. Color is one example. Not everyone sees red in the same way. Likewise, our perception of Shiva is clouded with our material ideas. As far as I am concerned, I look at Shiva as how the Bhagavata Purana describes him.

"Śrī Mārkaṇḍeya saw Lord Śiva suddenly appear within his heart. Lord Śiva’s golden hair resembled lightning, and he had three eyes, ten arms and a tall body that shone like the rising sun. He wore a tiger skin, and he carried a trident, a bow, arrows, a sword and a shield, along with prayer beads, a ḍamaru drum, a skull and an ax. Astonished, the sage came out of his trance and thought, “Who is this, and where has he come from?”

However, we can only wait until Shiva reveals himself to us, only then we will know who/what Shiva is, because he is very complex.

"He is very complex." Yes ! Lately I have been seeing someone appear in the "source" and they are blond and filled with golden yellow light and now I know who it is. I am being told that it is Shiva but was unsure because the Shiva I have always known had dark hair, grey skin, and is always dancing. And when you hug him he is like a wiggly child that makes you laugh and feel good .

In origional language (my version) Shiva means: quiet-excited-move-one of. And Siva means: away-excited-move-one of. So if one were to use these two names as mantras they each would create a different reality experience because different sounds create different realities.

 

[Vinayaka]

Ah, I am starting to understand this. However, do Vishnu or Brahma or others have a separate existence of their own or are the just manifestations of ParaSiva. Also, is the Rudra Shiva also a manifestation of ParaSiva/SadaSiva? Thanks.

Both. At an ultimate level it's all one. But to say it's all maya , isn't really accurate, because out here in the world of the mundane, it's all very real.

There are no others when it comes to Vishnu or Brahma... but Ganesha and Murugan, and Hanuman are separate.. emanated for particular reasons. Thats why we have God and Gods, and are henothists.

I'm certainly no philosophical expert, and am waiting patiently in line for when its my turn to get it.

 

[Chakra]

Both. At an ultimate level it's all one. But to say it's all maya , isn't really accurate, because out here in the world of the mundane, it's all very real.

There are no others when it comes to Vishnu or Brahma... but Ganesha and Murugan, and Hanuman are separate.. emanated for particular reasons. Thats why we have God and Gods, and are henothists.

I'm certainly no philosophical expert, and am waiting patiently in line for when its my turn to get it.

Ah, so the Trimurti is just a manifestation of ParaSiva, but the others are actual Jivas and separate from ParaSiva? I hope you don't mind the questions, it's just that I am interested in this outlook.

 

[Chakra]

"He is very complex." Yes ! Lately I have been seeing someone appear in the "source" and they are blond and filled with golden yellow light and now I know who it is. I am being told that it is Shiva but was unsure because the Shiva I have always known had dark hair, grey skin, and is always dancing. And when you hug him he is like a wiggly child that makes you laugh and feel good .

In origional language (my version) Shiva means: quiet-excited-move-one of. And Siva means: away-excited-move-one of. So if one were to use these two names as mantras they each would create a different reality experience because different sounds create different realities.

Yeah, that is true. I also heard that there is a difference between Shankara and Sankara, with the latter being more of a negative word. Is this true?

 

[Vinayaka]

Lately I have been seeing someone appear in the "source" and they are blond and filled with golden yellow light and now I know who it is. I am being told that it is Shiva but was unsure because the Shiva I have always known had dark hair, grey skin, and is always dancing. And when you hug him he is like a wiggly child that makes you laugh and feel good .

As soon as we start applying anthropomorphism I am lost. Two of the three perfections I hear about are formless. My version of Siva is like Nataraja, very thin, a body of light, and constantly shifting to the rhythms of the universe.

So I think it is two different things, not that it matters.

Have either of you ever been to a Siva temple? Maybe if you went to one you'd know if it was the same or not.