Lord Shiva

[Marco19]

Hello my Sikh friends,

As usual, i have a question

Well, this time want to ask about the definition of god in sikhism?
i've been reading through Sri Dasam (hope i write correctly)... where in many places it's mention shiva and even some others as gods (god shiva, god brahma ... etc)
i know that you believe in one god, but in those cases why it's mention god shiva (as Hindus do)?

Another question:

The trumpets were sounded, hearing which caused the king of gods run away.19.141.

since we are talking about Hindu gods... from Sikh point of view, what is the position of those gods? for instance Shiva?
Do you consider Him as a prophet or a noble or wise man? and who is the king of gods in the text above.

Another question:
within the same book, it's mention:

There was one Shiva, who passed away and another one came into being; there are many incarnations of Ramchandra and Krishna.

Here my question would be the following... why Shiva needs to be reincarnated?

Thanks in advance
:sikh:

 

[Sikh]

From Sikhism's point of view--there is only God.

I write God, but the word God is not written anywhere in Sikh literature. I write God because that is the word one uses in English to represent Ik Onkar to people who read english. The Gurus tried to use as many terms for God in as many languages as they knew as possible to get the point across.

From a cosmology point of view, Sikhs view of the nature of the world around us is the same as the Hindus, including reincarnation etc--its just that while we acknowledge that the Hindu gods exist, we view them as part of Maya. As the Gurus write, the Gods/planets/stars etc exist infinite times, die infinite times, are reincarnated infinite times, in infinite amount of universes. Dwelling on them is the same as dwelling on the Sun or moon, pointless. There is only Ik Onkar, one must meditate on that which is not Maya yet is.
Ik Onkar is the sole reality, only Ik Onkar exists.
The Dasam Granth is a history of sorts of punjab by the Tenth Guru coupled with moral stories etc--it is a compilation of private writings he had that people put together after his death in the form of a book.
The Guru Granth is the final word on Sikhism, it is the Guru Granth that you should study.

 

[chinu]

Well, this time want to ask about the definition of god in sikhism?i've been reading through Sri Dasam (hope i write correctly)... where in many places it's mention shiva and even some others as gods (god shiva, god brahma ... etc)i know that you believe in one god, but in those cases why it's mention god shiva (as Hindus do)?

Marco, Suppose there is tree --- and touching the branch of that tree --- am saying, "This is Tree", Is this wrong ? No.
Again, touching the stem of that branch --- am saying, "This is Tree", Is this wrong ? No.
Than again, touching the base of that tree --- am saying, "This is Tree", Is this wrong ? No.
Similarly, the gods like Shiva, Brahma, or Vishnu are like branches of the main tree "God", But the hard is to understand holy scripts.

since we are talking about Hindu gods... from Sikh point of view, what is the position of those gods? for instance Shiva?

Not only in sikhism, but in hinduism too, the place of Shiva is "Branch of tree",
You might have been listened about in hinduism that this creation is like tree facing downwards,

As a sample see this picture, but i don't know where it is exactly defined truely on net, i'll find for you later.

I think rest all of your questions you can cover up yourself, after truely knowing and understanding the mystry of this picture,

But Beware! there are also people who also make out wrong definations.

_/\_
Chinu

 

[Marco19]

Hello Chinu, & thanks for explainging that point exactly.
let me tell something, i think the problem is coming from my misunderstanding, i don't know why but i always had the feeling that Sikh definition of god is totally different from Hinduism (and not only different, even against Hindu concept of god).
i surprised when i saw the picture which you have provided, because it's absolutely Hindu conception.

i've always thought that Sikh defines god as Jews & Muslims do, he is something inconceivable, indescribable & it has no incarnations, no sons... etc.
anyways, seems i need to read more about this issue before asking.

friends sikh & chinu thanks for help

Best regards,
marco.

 

[GURSIKH]

Hello Chinu, & thanks for explainging that point exactly.
let me tell something, i think the problem is coming from my misunderstanding, i don't know why but i always had the feeling that Sikh definition of god is totally different from Hinduism (and not only different, even against Hindu concept of god).
i surprised when i saw the picture which you have provided, because it's absolutely Hindu conception.

.

hi Marco my frnd ,

the picture above has nothing to do with Sikhi .

i've always thought that Sikh defines god as Jews & Muslims do, he is something inconceivable, indescribable & it has no incarnations, no sons... etc.

GOD as per Sikhi is Without Birth /Incarnations , Without forms/Shape , but i feel still different from Jews n Muslims in the Sense CREATOR IS NOT DIFFERENT FROM CREATION (Pantheism ) .

 

[Marco19]

CREATOR IS NOT DIFFERENT FROM CREATION (Pantheism )

Cool! this makes sense. friend Gursikh thank you :namaste

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Hello Chinu, & thanks for explainging that point exactly.
let me tell something, i think the problem is coming from my misunderstanding, i don't know why but i always had the feeling that Sikh definition of god is totally different from Hinduism (and not only different, even against Hindu concept of god).
i surprised when i saw the picture which you have provided, because it's absolutely Hindu conception.

i've always thought that Sikh defines god as Jews & Muslims do, he is something inconceivable, indescribable & it has no incarnations, no sons... etc.
anyways, seems i need to read more about this issue before asking.

friends sikh & chinu thanks for help

Best regards,
marco.

Just for your own information. The original Greek Gospel doesn't teach that Jesus Christ is God or something. Those are just fabrications. So both the Quran, Gospel and Tora teach the same and are inspired by the same one and only God, Father of all.

 

[Treks]

Just for your own information. The original Greek Gospel doesn't teach that Jesus Christ is God or something. Those are just fabrications. So both the Quran, Gospel and Tora teach the same and are inspired by the same one and only God, Father of all.

With respect, what relevance does this have to the thread?

Are you equating Jesus with Hindu gods in relation to the Ik Onkar of Sikhi? Perhaps that is indeed the case from the Sikh point of view.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

With respect, what relevance does this have to the thread?

Are you equating Jesus with Hindu gods in relation to the Ik Onkar of Sikhi? Perhaps that is indeed the case from the Sikh point of view.

I don't know Sanskrit and i am not going to base my understanding on a translation of the Vedas. And i also don't know how to read the original Guru.

Though i am trying to learn Sanskrit to read the Vedas for myself. I am really curious if it really teaches that there are multiple deities etc.

All i am saying is that Jesus is not God, but created by God to become the Christ, the second Adam, for us. Jesus being God is being taught by 99% of the Christians, but that doesn't mean it's true. 99% of the Christians doesn't even know how to read Greek and study the original Gospel, and 99% of the Bibles are being translated by trinitarians.

 

[Treks]

I don't know Sanskrit and i am not going to base my understanding on a translation of the Vedas. And i also don't know how to read the original Guru.

Though i am trying to learn Sanskrit to read the Vedas for myself. I am really curious if it really teaches that there are multiple deities etc.

All i am saying is that Jesus is not God, but created by God to become the Christ, the second Adam, for us. Jesus being God is being taught by 99% of the Christians, but that doesn't mean it's true. 99% of the Christians doesn't even know how to read Greek and study the original Gospel, and 99% of the Bibles are being translated by trinitarians.

Sorry if I'm being obtuse, but how did you get from Shiva and Hinduism to Jesus and the Gospel in the Sikh DIR? I've seen you talking about the Gospel in multiple threads in the Sikh DIR and I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. I don't understand why you're mentioning it.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Sorry if I'm being obtuse, but how did you get from Shiva and Hinduism to Jesus and the Gospel in the Sikh DIR? I've seen you talking about the Gospel in multiple threads in the Sikh DIR and I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. I don't understand why you're mentioning it.

Someone here said that Jesus is God etc., but probably edited hes post. I just wanted to say that Jesus is not God and that the Christians deviated from the original Greek Gospel.

I also believe in more then one Holy Book. I read the Quran, Gospel, Tora etc. So it's not like i am wanting others to turn into Christians or something, if you think that.

 

[Firemorphic]

I write God, but the word God is not written anywhere in Sikh literature. I write God because that is the word one uses in English to represent Ik Onkar to people who read english. The Gurus tried to use as many terms for God in as many languages as they knew as possible to get the point across.

Yep, they've got the right idea. I've a lot of respect and love for Sikhism personally.
Blessings.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I think the problem is coming from my misunderstanding, i don't know why but i always had the feeling that Sikh definition of god is totally different from Hinduism (and not only different, even against Hindu concept of god).
i surprised when i saw the picture which you have provided, because it's absolutely Hindu conception.

Hindus too define Brahman in that way - Mool Mantar - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia. (though with one difference*). It is only that Hindus do not make it compulsory for all people. They sort of keep it for more knowledgeable people, Brahmavadins. And Sri Guru Nanak ji Saheb was one. Yeah, the picture is from Vaishanava school.

* 'Kartaa Purukh'. Some 'advaitists' would say that Brahman does nothing. That we see something happening is just 'maya'.

but I feel still different from Jews and Muslims in the sense that CREATOR IS NOT DIFFERENT FROM CREATION (Pantheism ).

Underline mine. Most people miss that.