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Losing faith?

Music

Member
Primitive people thought epilepsy was demonic possession, and once medical science developed they saw it for what it was. And it wasnt demonic posession. Before germs were discovered, people thought they were being punished by evil spirits. And so on.

My point is, every gap in knowledge was filled by 'god', karma, spirit, or some mystical entity. But as we gain knowledge, these entities disappear.

So my question is: If you're religous, do you ever feel that sooner or later your present beliefs will also be eclipsed by more knowledge as we advance? Does it scare you?
 

The Fog Horn

Active Member
It scares the hell out of them but they have the advantage of group narcissim, which enables them to fight against all those who threaten their clans and they, therefore, become islands unto themselves.....but still, forever, afraid that one day they too will become the one singled out for some tiny infraction.

It's one hellova stigma-threat and only the pack mentality can avert its gaze.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Primitive people thought epilepsy was demonic possession, and once medical science developed they saw it for what it was. And it wasn't demonic possession. Before germs were discovered, people thought they were being punished by evil spirits. And so on.

My point is, every gap in knowledge was filled by 'god', karma, spirit, or some mystical entity. But as we gain knowledge, these entities disappear.

So my question is: If you're religious, do you ever feel that sooner or later your present beliefs will also be eclipsed by more knowledge as we advance? Does it scare you?

Nope, I don't and it certainly doesn't scare me. Certainly, there is never knowing what tomorrow will bring. :)
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
Primitive people thought epilepsy was demonic possession, and once medical science developed they saw it for what it was. And it wasnt demonic posession. Before germs were discovered, people thought they were being punished by evil spirits. And so on.

My point is, every gap in knowledge was filled by 'god', karma, spirit, or some mystical entity. But as we gain knowledge, these entities disappear.

So my question is: If you're religous, do you ever feel that sooner or later your present beliefs will also be eclipsed by more knowledge as we advance? Does it scare you?
I certainly hope that my presents beliefs will also be eclipsed. I'm all for advancement in knowledge, and having to rethink my beliefs. I don't think that will ever take away my faith in God though.
 

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
I'm sorry, but I doubt the often-made claim that religious ideas come from unexplained phenomena.

Simply, no human beings sees the unexplainable and automatically assumes that a deity did it. Sane ones don't anyways. And they certainly don't convince others of it either.

Religions, save for maybe Greek mythologies, don't claim that the reason for X is God, that the reason for Y is because of demons, that the reason for Z is because of <insert religious idea here>.


Usually, the belief comes before the phenomena due to some type of charlatanry and only later does the charlatan either create situations that seem to prove his point or point to things that he feels may prove his point.

Do you have an example of a religious idea that people held because of a natural phenomena that cannot be more reasonably attributed to a preexisting belief or superstition that was only later incorrectly verified by un-scientific means?

You use demon possession. What human sees a person with epilepsy and the first thought is "it must be demons" unless the person already believed in something like demons and demon possession?

Chances are that the person already believed or was superstitious about demon possession and upon seeing the epileptic and not knowing what it was attributed what they saw to what they already believed.

The point I'm getting at is that most religious beliefs don't stem from phenomena we can't explain. If that were true, most people today would believe in religions becaue of unexplainable phenomena. The fact that the majority of the world's population claims some religious belief has nothing to do with unexplainable phenomena but with a hope that provides comfort. Normal sane human beings see an epileptic seizure and, if the idea isn'talready present in their head, demonstrate concern about the medical health of the person. I believe this was probably the case even back in older times.

Little suzy has a seizure, mom and dad are concerned so they take her to the priest, who in this time we're talking about is also the primary medical provider. The charlatan of a priest says "She's possessed. If you do X, Y, and pay money to the church she'll be saved by this super magical remedy I have." Mom and dad then go back to their friends and family and say that the guy who is supposed to be an expert (who, if he has a cure, is able to "magically" heal little suzy by some means he most likely kept hidden from them) said it was demons. Phenomena occurred, those who didn't know went to someone who they thought would, and that person lied for personal gain.

That fits in so much more accurately with the human nature I know than the lesser evolved species you speak of who fear all unknown phenomena and who all of a sudden create ideas like demon possession and mythical gods out of the blue to explain these phenomena, while going on to be ever so successful at convincing others, no all the rest of society, that their folly is true.
 
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Starsurfer93

Soul-Searcher
Primitive people thought epilepsy was demonic possession, and once medical science developed they saw it for what it was. And it wasnt demonic posession. Before germs were discovered, people thought they were being punished by evil spirits. And so on.

My point is, every gap in knowledge was filled by 'god', karma, spirit, or some mystical entity. But as we gain knowledge, these entities disappear.

So my question is: If you're religous, do you ever feel that sooner or later your present beliefs will also be eclipsed by more knowledge as we advance? Does it scare you?

As a Buddhist, our ever growing pool of scientific knowledge doesn't scare me in the slightest. I am in full support of learning more about our world and the universe. I feel that such findings also help us better understand ourselves.

Also, since Buddhism doesn't place a huge focus on the existence of the divine, I really don't see much about the faith that contradicts science.

So in short, no. I'm not scared. I have a feeling Buddhism will be around for a very long time :p
 

arthra

Baha'i
Primitive people thought epilepsy was demonic possession, and once medical science developed they saw it for what it was. And it wasnt demonic posession. Before germs were discovered, people thought they were being punished by evil spirits. And so on.

My point is, every gap in knowledge was filled by 'god', karma, spirit, or some mystical entity. But as we gain knowledge, these entities disappear.

So my question is: If you're religous, do you ever feel that sooner or later your present beliefs will also be eclipsed by more knowledge as we advance? Does it scare you?

Well as to all those demons they really were never a part of my religion anyways...except maybe for a entertainment purposes.

Scientists have beliefs too and sometimes their pet theories get exploded or displaced but it's all for the good and I believe greater knowledge enhances the awe and mystery of the universe...

"A man who has no knowledge of the heavenly universe has missed a portion of his heritage..."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 118
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Primitive people thought epilepsy was demonic possession, and once medical science developed they saw it for what it was. And it wasnt demonic posession. Before germs were discovered, people thought they were being punished by evil spirits. And so on.

My point is, every gap in knowledge was filled by 'god', karma, spirit, or some mystical entity. But as we gain knowledge, these entities disappear.

So my question is: If you're religous, do you ever feel that sooner or later your present beliefs will also be eclipsed by more knowledge as we advance? Does it scare you?

The beliefs you describe in the first paragraph have not been eclipsed by more knowledge. That we have scientific explanations for the phenomena doesn't mean it still cannot be interpreted or understood in a different fashion. Scientific explanations do not preclude other ones, particularly when you stop thinking about everything literally and instead think about things as a storyteller or from a mythological angle. No, the impression of knowledge eclipsing these things is mostly an indication of how certain explanations for things are in vogue at present while others are not. :shrug:

And, since I don't believe scientific and mythological accounts of truth are necessarily at odds with each other, no, my present beliefs won't be eclipsed by more knowledge. More knowledge simply adds to them. I deliberately incorporate science in my path. But I also do not throw the seeds out with the soil by then saying "oh, the mythological explanations are now useless and have no value." They make for great stories and provide understanding as well. That science shows the sun is a ball of hydrogen gas in no way makes me see Sun Spirit as any less of a deity.
 

Shuddhasattva

Well-Known Member
I don't really believe in the 'gods of the gaps' theory. I don't think scientific explanations for phenomena should at all remove the wonderment and reverence that is the essence of divine attribution.

If it means anything, I work in the technical field and believe fervently in science.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
As a Buddhist, our ever growing pool of scientific knowledge doesn't scare me in the slightest. I am in full support of learning more about our world and the universe. I feel that such findings also help us better understand ourselves.

Also, since Buddhism doesn't place a huge focus on the existence of the divine, I really don't see much about the faith that contradicts science.

So in short, no. I'm not scared. I have a feeling Buddhism will be around for a very long time :p

“If scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims.” - Dalai Lama
I like this.
 

NIX

Daughter of Chaos
Primitive people thought epilepsy was demonic possession, and once medical science developed they saw it for what it was. And it wasnt demonic posession. Before germs were discovered, people thought they were being punished by evil spirits. And so on.

My point is, every gap in knowledge was filled by 'god', karma, spirit, or some mystical entity. But as we gain knowledge, these entities disappear.

So my question is: If you're religous, do you ever feel that sooner or later your present beliefs will also be eclipsed by more knowledge as we advance? Does it scare you?

Religious people who approach mythologies as metaphor and allegory are certainly not threatened (by the idea that their favorite/favored mythologies might not be literal) lol.

Also some religious people actually do revere as their primary icon (god figure), one that embodies/represents rational thinking/understanding/knowledge itself.

There are enough people who practice ritual magic in an experimental light, to make mention of as well. It can be a study of the phyche and a way of conducting experiments that include the observer as an active participant.
It's not scientific method, no-but it does not need or require any specific results. It is content to simply "see what happens-or not".
 
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artsygirl

New Member
Hmmm, this sounds really good!! I've never really learned what it was about b/c i dont really like the cover. is that terrible?? it sounds good though!
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
If you're religous, do you ever feel that sooner or later your present beliefs will also be eclipsed by more knowledge as we advance?

I'm not religious, or I try not to be, but no. Concerning everything you said, God is not relative.

The more we learn, the more it makes the supernatural and unexplainable eclipsed, God is understood by most, therefore making a substitute for the term more difficult to find than build off of.


Does it scare you?

No, because now that we are clearing the brush away it makes it easier to see purpose and intent in belief concerning God and everything else.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
I'm sorry, but I doubt the often-made claim that religious ideas come from unexplained phenomena.

Simply, no human beings sees the unexplainable and automatically assumes that a deity did it. Sane ones don't anyways. And they certainly don't convince others of it either.

Religions, save for maybe Greek mythologies, don't claim that the reason for X is God, that the reason for Y is because of demons, that the reason for Z is because of <insert religious idea here>.

I propose that we insert X=life.

Are you suggesting "no sane person" would say "the reason for [life] is God?"
 

NIX

Daughter of Chaos
I propose that we insert X=life.

Are you suggesting "no sane person" would say "the reason for [life] is God?"

Life itself is full of variables.
And 'God' can mean/be/signify (ie, stand for) so many things.

(check out my 'religion'. ;)) :D
 

methylatedghosts

Can't brain. Has dumb.
If you're religous, do you ever feel that sooner or later your present beliefs will also be eclipsed by more knowledge as we advance? Does it scare you?

More knowledge is always good. My present beliefs will not be eclipsed as much as adapted as new knowledge comes forth. Taking the eclipse idea further...

If the sun represented my current beliefs, and the moon represented new knowledge, the moon passing in front of the sun would be made of glass. Something I could see through, that acted as a lens to lend a new focus, or a new view of the original beliefs.

EDIT:

This moon of new knowledge passing in front of the sun of original belief would then necessarily change not just the view of the sun, but change the sun itself. The moon and sun would then merge into a new form, permanently, until a new moon carrying new knowledge came along.
 
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Curious George

Veteran Member
Life itself is full of variables.
And 'God' can mean/be/signify (ie, stand for) so many things.

(check out my 'religion'. ;)) :D

I agree that God can carry various meaning, however, we were talking about a specific persons beliefs. Moreover, the nature of a variable allows me to use a quantity that is full of variables. take for instance the a quadratic function with values a=3 b=2 and c=6 I can set that function to equal another variable such that f(x)=u. Then I can toy with it all sorts. It does not matter, how you slice it as long as life fits within the definition. And I am pretty sure that we can call life an unexplainable phenomenon since many on this forum would argue its origin, purpose, and even reality.

but Cheers.
 

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
So my question is: If you're religous, do you ever feel that sooner or later your present beliefs will also be eclipsed by more knowledge as we advance? Does it scare you?

I don't rely on religion to explain the physical world to me, and, to be honest, I can't say that I know many who do.

And no, learning new things does not scare me.
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Primitive people thought epilepsy was demonic possession, and once medical science developed they saw it for what it was. And it wasnt demonic posession. Before germs were discovered, people thought they were being punished by evil spirits. And so on.

My point is, every gap in knowledge was filled by 'god', karma, spirit, or some mystical entity. But as we gain knowledge, these entities disappear.

So my question is: If you're religous, do you ever feel that sooner or later your present beliefs will also be eclipsed by more knowledge as we advance? Does it scare you?
So? religion isn't about knowledge. It's about meaning. I'm not at all frightened of gaining more knowledge, because the more knowledge we have, the richer meaning can become.
 
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