Lot, One of the Bible's bad Guys

[LuisDantas]

Yes I disagree.
It's not even an argument. It's pretty much the equivalent of saying 'Because I said so'

I do in fact say so.

And that is indeed plenty enough, given the circunstances. Why waste energies?

He didn't have sex with them, He was raped.

By the same daughters that survived the destruction of their city, presumably because they were worth of survival, while even their mother was punished with death for sins that, to the extent that they even clear to exist, include a willingness to rape Lot's visitors.

That is a very confused morality at best. And, again, that is before even considering their motivation of ethnic "purity".

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You have hurt people,

When I "hurt" someone, it is because I am unaware of how my words will be interpreted and the harm was not at all intended (it's a typical Aspie trait). This is still not comparable to sending someone on a suicide mission or offering your daughters up for a gang rape.
You really are taking some leaps and assumptions. If you want to try to pin any sins on me, you have to look at things like breaking the Sabbath, breaking laws that have no victims, committing adultery, and some other stuff. Yes, I did some worse stuff when I was younger and in a much darker place, but it's still a far cry from using your authority to send someone to their death or offering someone for a gang rape. The worse I have done, ever, is ripping out wires and copper tubes from foreclosed homes (it hurts the banks, but it gave some electricians, plumbers, and carpenters work). As I said, what I've done isn't comparable. No one died, and no was volunteered to be sexually assaulted.

 

[Thana]

When I "hurt" someone, it is because I am unaware of how my words will be interpreted and the harm was not at all intended (it's a typical Aspie trait). This is still not comparable to sending someone on a suicide mission or offering your daughters up for a gang rape.
You really are taking some leaps and assumptions. If you want to try to pin any sins on me, you have to look at things like breaking the Sabbath, breaking laws that have no victims, committing adultery, and some other stuff. Yes, I did some worse stuff when I was younger and in a much darker place, but it's still a far cry from using your authority to send someone to their death or offering someone for a gang rape. The worse I have done, ever, is ripping out wires and copper tubes from foreclosed homes (it hurts the banks, but it gave some electricians, plumbers, and carpenters work). As I said, what I've done isn't comparable. No one died, and no was volunteered to be sexually assaulted.

Well if you feel it's appropriate in a debate to skip over everything in someones post but the first four words than how about I skip over yours entirely?

Much obliged

 

[Nietzsche]

That's not the right analogy.

If you were a potter and made a vase, do you have the right to destroy it whenever you want?

Vases can't talk back, have lives or feelings.

 

[Thana]

Vases can't talk back, have lives or feelings.

So....?

 

[LuisDantas]

So....?

So they are inherently less worthy of respect and consideration than beings that have perception, discernment, self-awareness and feelings.

 

[Thana]

So they are inherently less worthy of respect and consideration than beings that have perception, discernment, self-awareness and feelings.

Why does sentience make something more worthy of respect?
Because the sentient creature feels entitled to it? That makes me feel less inclined to give it, not more.

 

[LuisDantas]

Why does sentience make something more worthy of respect?
Because the sentient creature feels entitled to it? That makes me feel less inclined to give it, not more.

Then I would assume you have an issue worth of some attention.

 

[prometheus11]

Why does sentience make something more worthy of respect?
Because the sentient creature feels entitled to it? That makes me feel less inclined to give it, not more.

Sentience is thinking. Thinking beings deserve more consideration than nonsentient things.

 

[Thana]

Sentience is thinking. Thinking beings deserve more consideration than nonsentient things.

People keep saying that but they can't explain why, exactly.

Apparently I'm just supposed to take it on faith.

 

[LuisDantas]

People keep saying that but they can't explain why, exactly.

Apparently I'm just supposed to take it on faith.

Hurting people who can feel the hurt is far more cruel than destroying or hurting something that is not even aware of how it is treated.

Can we agree on that much?

 

[Thana]

Then I would assume you have an issue worth of some attention.

So now you're just going to insult me?

Nice.

 

[Thana]

Hurting people who can feel the hurt is far more cruel than destroying or hurting something that is not even aware of how it is treated.

Can we agree on that much?

That's an assumption.... An opinion. A belief.

 

[LuisDantas]

So now you're just going to insult me?

Nice.

There is no insult in there. I am just accepting what you had just said.

 

[LuisDantas]

That's an assumption.... An opinion. A belief.

I guess not then.

I don't think I holds any water, but that is not my problem.

 

[prometheus11]

People keep saying that but they can't explain why, exactly.

Apparently I'm just supposed to take it on faith.

It has to do with empathy/sympathy.

I am not empathetic when burning logs in my fireplace. I am empathetic when I inadvertently step on my puppy's paw.

Are you suggesting that dynamic has no logical basis?

 

[Thana]

It has to do with empathy/sympathy.

I am not empathetic when burning logs in my fireplace. I am empathetic when I inadvertently step on my puppy's paw.

Are you suggesting that dynamic has no logical basis?

It has a subjective basis, not an objective one.
You feel sentience is worth more because of your sentience, But what value does that have?

 

[David1967]

Aside from inviting some good looking strangers home for the night, I see no evidence of righteousness. By the end of the story he is committing some dreadful acts, at least by modern moral codes like mine. So where is the righteousness?
Tom

I have a real problem with him offering his daughters as rape puppets to the depraved masses to spare the angelic messengers. "Don't molest the angels, here take my young daughters". I think angels would be well able to protect themselves. Doesn't say much for the worth of women in that culture does it?

 

[prometheus11]

It has a subjective basis, not an objective one.
You feel sentience is worth more because of your sentience, But what value does that have?

The only source of values is the human mind. Valuation relies upon thought and thinking of pleasure versus pain. Thus, the more a being thinks like the human brain does, the more it should be considered.

 

[Skwim]

He didn't have sex with them, He was raped.

Obviously you know very little about male physiology, because if you did you'd never use the word raped in this situation. Plus, you'd recognize his culpability in the situation.

My goodness you all complain about how people don't acknowledge male rape and here is a very obvious case of it and you're just going to victim blame because it suits your agenda?
Thats beyond despicable.

Nope. It's because we understand male physiology and you don't. Simple as that.

Because Lot saw the evil in Sodom and it tormented Him.

Didn't find this in Genesis at all.

He recognized it and tried to help people from it in the name of God.

What people? The only people he tried to help was his family, and that's only because the two men he brought into his home had told Lot what they were about to do. It's all in the Bible.

That is specifically what was considered righteous about him.

Trying to help people from certain destruction is righteousness? What next, swerving to avoid hitting a pedestrian with you car is righteousness? Thing is, in post 58 you said that righteousness was revering god.