Love -- and God -- from First Corinthians 13

[Evangelicalhumanist]

When my best friend in the world died, I read from 1 Corinthians 13 at his funeral. He loved the words (I actually was the person who told him they were some of my favourite in the Bible), and I felt them deeply as I read.

But, sorry, for those who thought this was going to be a serious thread -- I found this video on those very words hilarious. Feel free to ignore, at your leisure.

 

[sun rise]

That cartoon is a perfect illustration of what happens when people approach any scripture literally.

 

[danieldemol]

When my best friend in the world died, I read from 1 Corinthians 13 at his funeral. He loved the words (I actually was the person who told him they were some of my favourite in the Bible), and I felt them deeply as I read.

But, sorry, for those who thought this was going to be a serious thread -- I found this video on those very words hilarious. Feel free to ignore, at your leisure.

I just wish I could tag someone who was telling me the other day in all seriousness, "the Bible teaches to love and forgive all even ones enemies so hatred and oppression of people for any reason is clearly forbidden by the Holy Text," without breaking forum rules.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

That cartoon is a perfect illustration of what happens when people approach any scripture literally.

It is also, by the way, a perfect illustration of what happens when people accuse me (and others) of selectively choosing verses while ignoring others. Well, in this case, the author of the video listened to the verses of 1 Cor 13, and then referred to dozens and dozens of other verses in the Bible which contradict them.

What would you have us all do? Take them, not literally but metaphorically? And then what? What would that signify when all the other verses -- likewise taken metaphorically -- contradict?

I shouldn't have asked you that, by the way, since I'm well aware that you can't get a Christian to intellectually deal with that conundrum.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I just wish I could tag someone who was telling me the other day in all seriousness, "the Bible teaches to love and forgive all even ones enemies so hatred and oppression of people for any reason is clearly forbidden by the Holy Text," without breaking forum rules.

Oh, I think you could manage that. You just need to quote the contrary verses without comment.

 

[Brickjectivity]

When my best friend in the world died, I read from 1 Corinthians 13 at his funeral. He loved the words (I actually was the person who told him they were some of my favourite in the Bible), and I felt them deeply as I read.

But, sorry, for those who thought this was going to be a serious thread -- I found this video on those very words hilarious. Feel free to ignore, at your leisure.

To me its very sad, a sad video; but I can understand the humor. Given what you told us about your experience it adds up. For me its very sad, because these were questions I actually spent thought on years ago.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

It is also, by the way, a perfect illustration of what happens when people accuse me (and others) of selectively choosing verses while ignoring others. Well, in this case, the author of the video listened to the verses of 1 Cor 13, and then referred to dozens and dozens of other verses in the Bible which contradict them.

What would you have us all do? Take them, not literally but metaphorically? And then what? What would that signify when all the other verses -- likewise taken metaphorically -- contradict?

I shouldn't have asked you that, by the way, since I'm well aware that you can't get a Christian to intellectually deal with that conundrum.

Let me propose some wild speculation.

Just for the fun of it.

Suppose someone could actually show you how to understand scriptures in a way that ALL verses made coherent sense, without contradiction.

Remember, scripture is allegedly the words of a supreme infinite being.
Wouldn’t a supreme infinite being have powers beyond our comprehension?
Why would a supreme infinite being write a novel like any number of millions of other writers? Why wouldn’t the scriptures be potentially written in a way, that must be interpreted properly, but not possible if the one reading is, maybe, unbelieving in the divine nature of the scripture? It doesn’t matter if one doesn’t believe there IS a supreme infinite “something”, pulling the strings of our existence. Unless one is absolutely 100% POSITIVE there isn’t.
I’m just speculating here.

So, suppose to understand scripture requires a bit of effort, because words used in the scripture have certain meanings. So you would have to learn some of these meanings.
Like learning a language, but considerably easier.
For example; the number 7 has a particular meaning and it is consistent throughout. Or the word water, or the word wine, or the word blood, etc.

Just suppose that were possible. I’m just speculating.

Now suppose you read about a flood that causes some destruction and death, but then understand that it actually means something good that happens within YOU, and nothing to do with an alleged event long long ago in the world.

Now, I’m absolutely NOT saying this is the case. I’m just speculating.

But, can anyone say for 100% absolute certainty that what I speculate is not possible? Absolutely certain?

Now, if we’re absolutely 100% sure that scripture is just the fictional stories of ancient people, and we’re absolutely 100% sure there is no supreme infinite something, then we can rest comfortably while we point out contradictions in the stories, and dismiss the scriptures.

Who knows? I’m pretty much not absolutely 100% sure of anything.
But I am 99% sure that I’m tired and going to bed now.

 

[Deeje]

Something about pearls and swine come to mind....

 

[sun rise]

What would you have us all do? Take them, not literally but metaphorically? And then what? What would that signify when all the other verses -- likewise taken metaphorically -- contradict?

I take the book as the work of many people with morality, mythology, a bit of history, and divine inspiration mixed in to which I apply my heart and head to find what I would call the nuggets of gold mixed in with sludge.

I came to this because, by osmosis, the way Judaism deals with the Torah informs me: Affirmative Interpretive Translation of Leviticus 18:22 - Keshet for example. Our publicizing of this interpretation is a fulfillment of a long tradition of targum...

Jewish tradition and living are founded on the principle that the Torah cannot be read literally. It must be interpreted.

Indeed, we celebrate the Torah because it is open to an ongoing process of such interpretation. Confronted with a new interpretation of these phrases that conflicts with the one long held, how do we know which reading to choose?

We have a basic criterion. We know that the Torah is a Torah of holiness, affirming life. When we are confounded by the words of the Torah we are commanded to choose the reading that is in keeping with Her message. We choose the one that respects the humanity of others, that provides acceptance rather than condemnation.

 

[danieldemol]

Something about pearls and swine come to mind....

Something about adhominem because you can't address the points made comes to mind.

In my opinion.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That cartoon is a perfect illustration of what happens when people approach any scripture literally.

What can you symbolically learn from this, though?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Let me propose some wild speculation.

Just for the fun of it.

Suppose someone could actually show you how to understand scriptures in a way that ALL verses made coherent sense, without contradiction.

Remember, scripture is allegedly the words of a supreme infinite being.
Wouldn’t a supreme infinite being have powers beyond our comprehension?
Why would a supreme infinite being write a novel like any number of millions of other writers? Why wouldn’t the scriptures be potentially written in a way, that must be interpreted properly, but not possible if the one reading is, maybe, unbelieving in the divine nature of the scripture? It doesn’t matter if one doesn’t believe there IS a supreme infinite “something”, pulling the strings of our existence. Unless one is absolutely 100% POSITIVE there isn’t.
I’m just speculating here.

So, suppose to understand scripture requires a bit of effort, because words used in the scripture have certain meanings. So you would have to learn some of these meanings.
Like learning a language, but considerably easier.
For example; the number 7 has a particular meaning and it is consistent throughout. Or the word water, or the word wine, or the word blood, etc.

Just suppose that were possible. I’m just speculating.

Now suppose you read about a flood that causes some destruction and death, but then understand that it actually means something good that happens within YOU, and nothing to do with an alleged event long long ago in the world.

Now, I’m absolutely NOT saying this is the case. I’m just speculating.

But, can anyone say for 100% absolute certainty that what I speculate is not possible? Absolutely certain?

Now, if we’re absolutely 100% sure that scripture is just the fictional stories of ancient people, and we’re absolutely 100% sure there is no supreme infinite something, then we can rest comfortably while we point out contradictions in the stories, and dismiss the scriptures.

Who knows? I’m pretty much not absolutely 100% sure of anything.
But I am 99% sure that I’m tired and going to bed now.

Well, why don't you go ahead and try doing just that -- but without all the "speculating" (meant to be take as unvarnished fact)? Also, remember, no special pleading to make inconveniences convenienty disappear.

Don't rush, I'll wait.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Well, why don't you go ahead and try doing just that -- but without all the "speculating" (meant to be take as unvarnished fact)? Also, remember, no special pleading to make inconveniences convenienty disappear.

Don't rush, I'll wait.

I was only speculating.

Your myriad of problems are of no interest to me.

Have a nice day.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I was only speculating.

Your myriad of problems are of no interest to me.

Have a nice day.

And what "myriad of problems" would those be, pray tell?