Is this question not off the subject of the thread? Answer the thread if you will and let us not derail it.
If you have a question of me then may be there is a way to PM me.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Love your enemies
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
If you have a question of me then may be there is a way to PM me.
idea
Question Everything
You quoted the above scripture seemingly asking how it applied to me - and I was curious how you felt about it as well, that's all.
Seems like loving your enemies might involve not thinking God is going to condemn them is all.
Only God knows who will be condemned.
Jesus once came into my living room, and told me we were not to hurt anyone for any reason.
That was a word that surprised me. I was brought up to believe we were to defend ourselves, and our country.
I had spent five years in the USA Armed Forces.
When I told my wife what Jesus said she became angry. She ask me if someone broke into our house and was going to rape her, what would I do.
I said may get in his way, but would not hurt him. My wife left the room, and it seemed to me she left very angry at me.
Yet later my wife came back and said to me, I would not want you to. Meaning she would not want me to disobey God.
My wife was a very spiritual woman, and she went and asked Jesus if I was right. Jesus told her that I was right.
Bollweevil
New Member
That's exactly how you define a Christian. How do you define a pear tree from an apple tree.....their action of producing pear fruit. How do you tell the difference between wheat and barley, by their action of producing the appropriate grain. One can say anything; however it's ones 'fruit' (actions) that shows who they really are.
rrosskopf
LDS High Priest
It is possible to love people and love justice at the same time. Sometimes people need to experience justice to understand it. God is the eternal judge, and from him we should expect justice.
rrosskopf
LDS High Priest
Nonsense. As few as 10 righteous men would have stopped Sodom and Gomorrah from being destroyed. It is Satan who tries to force our obedience through brute force, not God. God administers justice, but that isn't to force men to be righteous, but to free men from the wicked. No man could choose righteousness, if a society was completely wicked. People would learn nothing but wickedness from the time they were babies.
All have the opportunity to repent - 2 Peter 3:9
By the soon coming ' time of separation ' on earth - Matthew 25:31-33 - people will have shown their true colors, so to speak, - Matthew 25:40.
The willfully un-repentant ones will be classed with the wicked - Psalms 92:7
Jesus was talking about the ' rumors ' at Matthew 5:43 - you ' heard ' to hate enemies. God is Not partial: sunlight and rain for all, tree shade for all, flowers for all, etc.
Apparently the point of Matthew 5:44 is in connection to love - Matthew 5:48 - love as to Not be imperfect as to be lacking in showing love. - Luke 10:30-37
We can be complete in showing love by showing love even to one's enemies - Matthew 10:22
Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
The Spirit of God is not bound by wickedness. True.
The creation of God must do what God intends. True.
No creation is completely wicked. The Romans did not establish that they would hang themselves of their own will, but so that the Word be fulfilled. Those at Sodom and Gomorrah received a more merciful death than the children who die of hunger everyday. God's mercy is in the Son of Man's hands.
.... and the end came hard and swift in Noah's day besides at Sodom and Gomorrah ( divine execution )
So, after the ' time of separation ' in our day on earth - Matthew 25:31-33 - we can expect the same pattern for the end of all badness on earth to come hard and swift.
Jesus, as the warrior king of Revelation 19:11, rides with angelic armies - Revelation 19:14-15 - to rid the earth of the wicked by the words of his mouth - Isaiah 11:3-4; Proverbs 2:21-22
As the people of Noah's day - Matthew 24:37 - were past the point of repenting - 2 Peter 3:9 - the ' goat'-like people of Matthew 25:31-33 will be classed as wicked - Psalms 92:7.
Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
The Father is not subverted by the Son. The princes of peace are ruling in the kingdom of heaven. Society lives according to Cain's spirit. The spirit who did not reason with his brother, but built cities and armies, for profit. The murderer wandering the wastes of the Earth profits more than sevenfold. His spirit will be cleansed on Earth, as it is in heaven. But first, another divine execution according to Cain's fate is taking place.
God is God. What we believe, we believe. But, what will be in the perception of mankind, has already existed in God. God knows. It was His doing, that the Son may inherit what remains in the Father's dominion. Men believe they hold power, and that they subvert the Most High, and so death is not overcome until the end of the age of Cain.
kaoticprofit
Active Member
Matthew 25:31-33 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Psalms 92:7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:
Back to Mathew 25:31-33...
You keep mentioning the judgment of the sheep and goats.
The sheep and goats judgment is different from the Great White Throne judgment described in Revelation 20:11-15 for several reasons. The Great White Throne judgment happens after the millennium. The Judgment of the Nations happens immediately after the return of Jesus.
It also happens at a different place. The Great White Throne judgment of Revelation 20 happens in heaven; the Judgment of the Nations of Matthew 25 appears to happen on earth.
The Great White Throne judgment includes all men and women, redeemed or unredeemed. (Many believe that the Great White throne is judgment only for the unredeemed but the passage is clear that it's for both redeemed and unredeemed). The Judgment of Nations probably consist of all the gentiles and the 144,000 Jews (Not JW'S!) This judgment comes AFTER the resurrection and determines who will enter the 1,000 years.
Last edited:
Interesting that you say ' end of the age of Cain ' because the foundation of righteous mankind starts with Abel ( Not Cain ) according to Matthew 23:35
.......and that ' end of the age ' comes at the soon coming ' time of separation ' as mentioned at Matthew 25:31-33.
Then, ' enemy death ' will be overcome during Jesus' 1,000 year governmental rulership over earth - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8; Revelation 22:2
Apparently in God's viewpoint the people of Noah's day, known for their violence, were wicked enough to be destroyed - Genesis 6:11
Jesus said as in Noah's day - Matthew 24:37, so the ' goats' of Matthew 25:31-33 - are judged as being wicked enough to be destroyed - 2 Peter 3:9; Psalms 92:7
Those who are called ( resurrected to heaven ) are already judged according to Revelation 20:6 because ' second death ' has No power over them.
After the millennium-long day of Jesus' governing over earth, then those who prove unfaithful on earth are destroyed - Revelation 20:8-9
kaoticprofit
Active Member
Here's the problem I have with that view.
Without going into a lot of detail take a quick look at the passage
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
This verse implies that those that were beheaded were already risen which indicates a resurrection before the 1,000 years. The second death has no power over them because they've already been resurrected. AND it implies another resurrection judging those that lived during the 1,000 years AFTER it.
So here is the Great White Throne...
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Now why would two or more books be opened, one being the book of life, if God was only judging the unfaithful? BOTH are being judged as both books are opened just like the wheat and the tares! To render everyone as unfaithful at the end of the Millennium makes the purpose of the Millennium somewhat meaningless. This seems so easy to figure out to me and it's just surprising that even the experts can't get it right!
Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
The people of Noah's day were not destroyed because of wickedness; there were babies, children, and mentally ill. Neither had all flesh a part from Noah's choosing been saved. But, it is true: all things, including death, are according to God's determination (which has existed unchanged).
All things come and go according to their positions within the knowledge of God.
Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you be no priest to Me. Seeing you have forgotten the law of your God, I will also forget your children.
Luke 23:34
And Jesus said, `Father, forgive them, for they have not known what they do.'
Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Do you worship what you have not known? Leave what "will be" to those who have inhabited it.
Those of the Caprinae family are sharing the Shepard of all creation. The Father is dividing between Himself, forsaking them all from least to greatest, a distance suitable to their inheritance. But, the son of perdition, the prodigal son, is not lost except according to his age. The Father knows where all things stand; where they go, and when they draw near. A feast is prepared in their new age, and the living water sustains them.
First of all, Jesus at - Luke 23:34 - was addressing about the Roman soldiers who put him to death. The ' them ' are those particular Romans soldiers.
We are past the days of ignorance - Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31
People of Noah's day were violent -> Genesis 6:11.
Parents are responsible for 'minor' children - 1 Corinthians 7:14
God can read hearts we can not. God knows the point of No return, meaning God could see the children would use their free-will choices and grow up to be violent like the parents.
Jesus is judge - Isaiah 11:3-4
Sleeppy
Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
1) These were the same people who scourged, spit on, and nailed people to crosses, as part of their daily lives. There's a reason they tore the man's clothes a part and mocked him.
So, no "them" doesn't only refer to the Romans.
We are never "past the days of ignorance". God intended that creation know less; that knowledge among creation be fluid, as opposed to the static all-knowing state that God is.
I can only hope that you come to understand this. This idea that creation subverts God is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It is not forgiven in this age, nor in the one to come, for this reason: it creates the discord necessary for pride to become an idol. Hence, "free will"; the idea that something/anything, a will, exists a part from God's dominion.