Loved ones in hell - take 2.

[Trailblazer]

Would you want to live in a world where crime went unpunished?

What crime?

 

[Trailblazer]

“The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world that he did not exist.”

but since he doesn't exist, if he ever did that he did the world a favor.

 

[SigurdReginson]

And since God is neither sick nor petty.........

Meh... I said it before, but who we worship says more about us than the deity.

 

[Kenny]

Hi. I deleted my last post regarding this subject because the details were too raw and personal, and while I appreciated the responses, they digressed from the questions.

So, simply, my questions are 1.) If a friend or family member dies and you know they weren't saved, do you still love them and cherish the memories, or do you try to bury it and let go? After all, once in heaven you'll forget anyway. Also, how do you deal with the thought of them suffering in eternal torment even though you know that they deserve it?

I guess I can't relate since I led the whole of my family and extended family to the knowledge of Jesus Christ and restoring their relationship with Abba Father.

Just assuming, I would love them and cherish the memories. I wouldn't just assume they were in Hell because of God's mercy and because He is the final judge. (Man judges the outward or what they see but God judges the heart).

I have heard of people who cried out to Jesus while they were on route to Hell and ended up getting saved... so one never knows.

We all deserved punishment but Jesus paid for it -- it isn't about who deserved it

Anyway, that's my take on it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If you mean Eastern Orthodox Christianity I had a friend on another forum who belonged to that church.
I like Eastern Orthodox Christianity, can you tell me what they teach about heaven and hell?

Yes. In Orthodoxy, salvation is viewed as a continual process of refinement where the soul is gradually purified and made holy. It's not some one time thing. Heaven is ultimate union with God, and being granted the full vision of God, which is said to be like a radiant fire.

This 'fire' that brings joy and delight to the saints is God's love and grace. All are touched by it but how we respond to it decides where we go. To those in God's friendship and who are striving towards Him, this fire is transcendent bliss and eternal life. It's enlivening and beyond words. To those who reject God or turn from Him, this same 'fire' causes them suffering, but it's not God willing them to be tortured or damned. That's not what's going on. Hell is not a 'place'. It's a spiritual state that can begin in life and it becomes 'complete' after death. I've been there before, and don't want to be again. It's despair, sadness and pain.

No, there's no demons with pitchforks, God and the saints don't watch sinners be tortured from Heaven with relish (that's disgusting and blasphemy, itself) and I never believed that the memory of our loved ones is blanked out of our minds.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes. In Orthodoxy, salvation is viewed as a continual process of refinement where the soul is gradually purified and made holy. It's not some one time thing. Heaven is ultimate union with God, and being granted the full vision of God, which is said to be like a radiant fire.

This 'fire' that brings joy and delight to the saints is God's love and grace. All are touched by it but how we respond to it decides where we go. To those in God's friendship and who are striving towards Him, this fire is transcendent bliss and eternal life. It's enlivening and beyond words. To those who reject God or turn from Him, this same 'fire' causes them suffering, but it's not God willing them to be tortured or damned. That's not what's going on. Hell is not a 'place'. It's a spiritual state that can begin in life and it becomes 'complete' after death. I've been there before, and don't want to be again. It's despair, sadness and pain.

No, there's no demons with pitchforks, God and the saints don't watch sinners be tortured from Heaven with relish (that's disgusting and blasphemy, itself) and I never believed that the memory of our loved ones is blanked out of our minds.

Wow, I didn't know that is what Orthodox Christians believe about heaven and hell. That is really cool.
That is similar to what Baha'is believe, although we don't get into all those details.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Yes. In Orthodoxy, salvation is viewed as a continual process of refinement where the soul is gradually purified and made holy. It's not some one time thing. Heaven is ultimate union with God, and being granted the full vision of God, which is said to be like a radiant fire.

This 'fire' that brings joy and delight to the saints is God's love and grace. All are touched by it but how we respond to it decides where we go. To those in God's friendship and who are striving towards Him, this fire is transcendent bliss and eternal life. It's enlivening and beyond words. To those who reject God or turn from Him, this same 'fire' causes them suffering, but it's not God willing them to be tortured or damned. That's not what's going on. Hell is not a 'place'. It's a spiritual state that can begin in life and it becomes 'complete' after death. I've been there before, and don't want to be again. It's despair, sadness and pain.

No, there's no demons with pitchforks, God and the saints don't watch sinners be tortured from Heaven with relish (that's disgusting and blasphemy, itself) and I never believed that the memory of our loved ones is blanked out of our minds.

The whole thing about god blocking out people you know and love from your mind so you don't have to think about their suffering just goes to show that the whole concept is evil to begin with... When good things are done, they don't need to be swept under the rug out of sight and out of mind so that we don't have to trouble ourselves with negative thoughts.

Leaves a real bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Tiberius]

Hi. I deleted my last post regarding this subject because the details were too raw and personal, and while I appreciated the responses, they digressed from the questions.

So, simply, my questions are 1.) If a friend or family member dies and you know they weren't saved, do you still love them and cherish the memories, or do you try to bury it and let go? After all, once in heaven you'll forget anyway. Also, how do you deal with the thought of them suffering in eternal torment even though you know that they deserve it?

Wait...

So a person in Heaven would, with regards to family members in Hell, would either not care, or be ignorant? Or even desire those loved ones to suffer?

Seriously what the...?

 

[InChrist]

Hi. I deleted my last post regarding this subject because the details were too raw and personal, and while I appreciated the responses, they digressed from the questions.

So, simply, my questions are 1.) If a friend or family member dies and you know they weren't saved, do you still love them and cherish the memories, or do you try to bury it and let go? After all, once in heaven you'll forget anyway. Also, how do you deal with the thought of them suffering in eternal torment even though you know that they deserve it?

I would simply trust God with the destiny of a loved one, knowing that He is completely righteous in His judgement and loves our friends and family even more than we do. My mom was not saved, as far as I know, before she died. But she had dementia and I don’t really know what may have gone on in her mind and spirit between her and God in her last days. I say cherish the memories of your loved ones, even if unsaved, and trust them to God.

...shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

I believe so.

 

[Thief]

Hi. I deleted my last post regarding this subject because the details were too raw and personal, and while I appreciated the responses, they digressed from the questions.

So, simply, my questions are 1.) If a friend or family member dies and you know they weren't saved, do you still love them and cherish the memories, or do you try to bury it and let go? After all, once in heaven you'll forget anyway. Also, how do you deal with the thought of them suffering in eternal torment even though you know that they deserve it?

I have posted many times.......if I find myself in heaven
but my beloved cannot be found

I will ask the end of a sword and go looking

and she had better not be harmed

 

[Left Coast]

Wait...

So a person in Heaven would, with regards to family members in Hell, would either not care, or be ignorant? Or even desire those loved ones to suffer?

Seriously what the...?

It sounds as though God would literally wipe the memories of people in heaven so they have no recollection of anyone who is in hell.

That's like something from The Good Place. Or a dystopian nightmare.

 

[Katzpur]

Hi. I deleted my last post regarding this subject because the details were too raw and personal, and while I appreciated the responses, they digressed from the questions.

So, simply, my questions are 1.) If a friend or family member dies and you know they weren't saved, do you still love them and cherish the memories, or do you try to bury it and let go? After all, once in heaven you'll forget anyway. Also, how do you deal with the thought of them suffering in eternal torment even though you know that they deserve it?

First and foremost, you DON'T and CAN'T know that someone else wasn't saved, so your other questions are meaningless.

 

[blü 2]

Hi. I deleted my last post regarding this subject because the details were too raw and personal, and while I appreciated the responses, they digressed from the questions.

So, simply, my questions are 1.) If a friend or family member dies and you know they weren't saved, do you still love them and cherish the memories, or do you try to bury it and let go? After all, once in heaven you'll forget anyway. Also, how do you deal with the thought of them suffering in eternal torment even though you know that they deserve it?

Or you might consider whether the idea of Hell is a story and not a datum about the dead.

It might be a story because ─

─ nothing about heaven or hell was ever spoken by God, only by various humans purporting to speak for [him], with no evidence that this was true

─ belief in hell was found in ancient times, but in factual terms it's nonsense, a cloud of negative emotion without any clear physical description, let alone a realistic and testable hypothesis as to how it might work

─ the idea of postmortal justice is appealing when earthly justice seems to fail, and postmortal justice necessarily implies rewards and penalties (whereas postmortal justice, if such were to exist, might necessarily imply healing and forgiveness instead)

─ fear and guilt are instruments of manipulation which are certainly used by some religions and some preachers and ministers, regardless of the supernatural situation

My own view is that death is the end. But if there's a god of love, there's no hell. And if your god is a god of hell, get a god of love instead.

 

[Katzpur]

But the word of God says otherwise, unless you think god is a liar.

What is it with people who are always accusing other people of thinking God is a liar? I get that all the time. People interpret the Bible in many different ways, and it's very presumptuous for anyone to think that someone who interprets it differently than they do believes God is a liar.

 

[Katzpur]

Hell doesn't really exist so all this is not going to happen.

Suppose Hell existed and my loved one was in Hell. I am not going to forget my loved one.

Our choices and actions define who we are. I would march into Hell to save not only my loved one but everyone in Hell. I would protest the injustice of it all. I would question why God is frying His children. I would question why God is existing at the lower level allowing Hell and why God suddenly values so many of the petty things mankind holds so dear. If I , through my choices and actions, can rise to a Higher Level, why can't God??

In short, there will not be Heaven because I am going to raise Hell, if Hell even existed.

If God can create Universes, how could anyone think God can't handle a few wayward children?

Mankind tries to destroy what mankind can't easily control or fix. Intelligence does exist far beyond mankind's thinking and petty ways. We are all on the path to perfection, learning and growing through each lifetime until we too will Understand how to create a Heavenly state.

Contrary to many people's thinking, All the kiddies are going to make it. There has never ever been a time limit on learning. Each person is too unique and too valuable to every be discarded.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Very, very, very well put!

 

[Watchmen]

Is hell really eternal torment or is it actually being cast into the “fire” and ceasing to exist?

 

[Trailblazer]

Is hell really eternal torment or is it actually being cast into the “fire” and ceasing to exist?

Neither one.... Simply put, hell is being distant from God. It is a state of the soul.

Those people who are distant from God do not have eternal life, which is nearness to God, although their soul continues to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies, since the soul is immortal.

“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 243

 

[Spirit of Light]

Hi. I deleted my last post regarding this subject because the details were too raw and personal, and while I appreciated the responses, they digressed from the questions.

So, simply, my questions are 1.) If a friend or family member dies and you know they weren't saved, do you still love them and cherish the memories, or do you try to bury it and let go? After all, once in heaven you'll forget anyway. Also, how do you deal with the thought of them suffering in eternal torment even though you know that they deserve it?

How would i know that someone goes to hell? Only Allah could know that.

Can i know that i go to heaven my self.. no i do not know. Again Allah deside that when i die

 

[Clara Tea]

[QUOTE="Deo Vindice, post: 7102854, member: 64861" 1.) If a friend or family member dies and you know they weren't saved, do you still love them and cherish the memories, or do you try to bury it and let go? After all, once in heaven you'll forget anyway. Also, how do you deal with the thought of them suffering in eternal torment even though you know that they deserve it?[/QUOTE]

God set it all up.

God set up the afterlife to have some burn in the fires of hell for all eternity because he is a good and loving God. You will enjoy spending eternity next to this good and loving God.

If you forget in heaven, how can you possibly get together with your loved ones?

When you are in heaven, and you look around and see President George W. Bush, you will know you are in the wrong place (thou shalt not kill.....wars, torture camps, tax breaks for the rich, ignoring the poor, damaging God's environment, lies).

What we perceive as good on earth really is not good.

 

[firedragon]

So, simply, my questions are 1.) If a friend or family member dies and you know they weren't saved

How would you know that they weren't "saved"?