Luciferianism

[Lux et Umbra]

Honestly, good resources are extremely thin when it comes to Luciferianism. When I first got on this path, there were no sites on the net about it at all. I (and most Luciferians who've been practicing for at least 3 years) came to all of this myself through massive amounts of reading. I took the Lucifer character from the bible and tried to figure out what it all meant. I found gnostic texts, etc. and developed it on my own. That's not uncommon at all among Luciferians. I basically built my own religion and other Luciferians who had done the same thing happened to come to the same conclusions. You can find plenty of information just from reading the bible and thinking about Lucifer's story. Read up on Prometheus too. I've posted a good bit of information right here on RF. Some day, I'll compile it all and built that site you're looking for...lol.

That all makes sense. I assumed there wouldn't be much out there.
I have no problem developing my own ideas and coming to my own conclusions about Lucifer, I'd just like to hear what other people believe as well. I'm big on research so I'm bound to find things to help me out, eventually. I've been reading Gnostic texts and some others. Any specific (Gnostic) ones-- there are so many...eventually I'd like to read them all, but if there are any pertaining more to Luciferianism than others, that'd help me out.
I have seen your posts about Lucifer and Luciferianism-- I've printed them up for further reading as well.
Prometheus is not one that I have been reading up on, but I will, I am right now actually. I know there are plenty of sites about Prometheus in mythology (giving fire to humankind, etc) and such. It's just all the ones about Lucifer seem to be... less helpful. As you can see from the links I found.

Some day, I'll compile it all and built that site you're looking for...lol.

Well that would be awesome
If you ever did I'd be quite happy, lol.
I'm not looking for anyone to give me all the answers though. Having a good, reliable resource would he a helpful thing for me and I'm sure anyone else interested in and learning about this path is all.

 

[Ðanisty]

I know how you feel...lol. You won't always find information specifically about Lucifer. You just gotta take what you read and consider a different point of view and sometimes it will all make sense...sometimes it won't. The Apocolypse of Adam is an interesting read. One thing that confuses a lot of people is that a lot of Luciferians have no problem at all with Jesus. Afterall, Jesus has been the Morningstar too. There are a lot of similarities if you really look at it. It's God himself that most of take issue with. This is not a paradox for me because I don't believe that Jesus is God...he is the son of God, but they aren't the same entity. Of course you can see that I can't speak for all Luciferians.

I became a Luciferian about 5 years ago after about 6 years of being a Satanist. I would say though that this has been my path from the very beginning. Looking back it's easy for me to see this is who I've always been. For example, as I child I learned about Cain and Abel and from the very start I've been a Cain sympathizer. Clearly God didn't value his sacrifice. What's up with the favoritism? When I learned about the Tower of Babel I was a bit shocked and confused. It was in direct contrast to everything my parents had taught me (like team-work, problem-solving, etc.) Here God was punishing man for great accomplishments! :areyoucra If you read the bible and feel this way, the LHP may be right for you.

 

[Quiddity]

Alright, here are my thoughts and questions.

As an outsider to the philosophy, I can’t see how any Luciferian can say “this is Luciferianism”. It’s individualistic and isolationist nature makes it difficult to do so. Personally, I can get beyond this with some digging, reading, and patience. But even then there is no systematic way of knowing what is and what isn’t.

I understand it’s not intended to be dogmatic, but the very fact that any Luciferian can spot a fake Luciferian indicates that it does indeed have some dogma. Mirroring yourself to the attributes of Lucifer would be of dogmatic nature right?

Also, when I see philosophies that push for “higher knowledge”, “intellectualism”, “reaching the Light”, and a number of other buzz words and it is not accompanied by some other characteristic to put it in check (say humility); it has a tendency of producing a huge ego, pride, intolerance, impatience, to name a few. How does the Luciferian philosophy avoid this? Or does it at all?

 

[IanAlmighty]

I pose the same question as Victor above.

How is it possible to have a religion without some form of dogma?

 

[Ðanisty]

It's not exactly an organized religion. It's more like a personal spirituality.

As an outsider to the philosophy, I can’t see how any Luciferian can say “this is Luciferianism”. It’s individualistic and isolationist nature makes it difficult to do so. Personally, I can get beyond this with some digging, reading, and patience. But even then there is no systematic way of knowing what is and what isn’t.

If you noticed, the sites I pointed out as being bad sites are the ones who are making ridiculous claims of having an official Luciferian book, etc. That's what makes them aweful sites. They're trying to pin something down as real or fake when there is nothing to pin down. My religion is my own just as every other Luciferian's.

I understand it’s not intended to be dogmatic, but the very fact that any Luciferian can spot a fake Luciferian indicates that it does indeed have some dogma. Mirroring yourself to the attributes of Lucifer would be of dogmatic nature right?

If you're talking about my comments on Aaron Donahue, read his stuff for yourself. He's a nutcase by any standards...not just my own. Again, my problem with him is that he thinks of himself as some sort of authority. I don't even consider myself an authority on anything other than my own personal beliefs. Let me put it this way, a friend of mine called up once to tell me Donahue was on Coast to Coast...

Also, when I see philosophies that push for “higher knowledge”, “intellectualism”, “reaching the Light”, and a number of other buzz words and it is not accompanied by some other characteristic to put it in check (say humility); it has a tendency of producing a huge ego, pride, intolerance, impatience, to name a few. How does the Luciferian philosophy avoid this? Or does it at all?

First of all, nobody wants to really use these buzz words. They just happen to be the best way to describe things. Ego and pride are not something any Luciferian philosophy would attempt to address...none that I can think of anyway. Problems with ego and pride tend to address themselves eventually. One can't know everything and if you think you do, eventually it will bite you in the ***. Intolerance confuses me. I honestly don't see why a Luciferian has any need to be intolerant or any real reason to justify it. Intolerance reminds me too much of God. I'm not sure how impatience even enters this equation. Is there something wrong with impatience? I'm impatient but it doesn't change anything. I have to wait just like everyone else...lol.

How is it possible to have a religion without some form of dogma?

Is it possible? I don't know. I don't think it's productive though. I don't think there is a way to have a religion without some dogma, but the Luciferians I've met don't really care to nail it down and I don't blame them. There's only so much time you can waste arguing over what to believe, especially since we tend to be solitary in our beliefs. I don't feel that Luciferianism attempts to be any kind of organized religion. Setting down rules only steps on somebody else's toes, especially since most of us came these conclusions all on our own. What you guys are now asking is for me to speak for a group that doesn't exist.

 

[Quiddity]

It's not exactly an organized religion. It's more like a personal spirituality.

If you noticed, the sites I pointed out as being bad sites are the ones who are making ridiculous claims of having an official Luciferian book, etc. That's what makes them aweful sites. They're trying to pin something down as real or fake when there is nothing to pin down. My religion is my own just as every other Luciferian's.

If you're talking about my comments on Aaron Donahue, read his stuff for yourself. He's a nutcase by any standards...not just my own. Again, my problem with him is that he thinks of himself as some sort of authority. I don't even consider myself an authority on anything other than my own personal beliefs. Let me put it this way, a friend of mine called up once to tell me Donahue was on Coast to Coast...

I'd probably fail miserably at knowing what is legit and what isn't. Unless I'm told specifically what is and what isn't, how would I know?

I understand Luciferianism is very individualistic, but even at that level there should be something that binds them in belief. You seemed to be rather comfortable with what was provided by the OP, so I imagine that if there is something "dogmatic" it could be categorized by legit Luciferians, no?

First of all, nobody wants to really use these buzz words. They just happen to be the best way to describe things. Ego and pride are not something any Luciferian philosophy would attempt to address...none that I can think of anyway. Problems with ego and pride tend to address themselves eventually. One can't know everything and if you think you do, eventually it will bite you in the ***. Intolerance confuses me. I honestly don't see why a Luciferian has any need to be intolerant or any real reason to justify it. Intolerance reminds me too much of God. I'm not sure how impatience even enters this equation. Is there something wrong with impatience? I'm impatient but it doesn't change anything. I have to wait just like everyone else...lol.

The point that I was attempting to make is that the Luciferian philosophy would seem to (to me at least) produce such characteristics. My observation is really only something that I came to a conclusion to from putting myself in the situation. In otherwords, if I was Luciferian I would let my ego and pride run buck wild and there would be nothing in the philosophy to really put it in check. Granted, I know it's individualistic and you have to seek your own way of putting it in check (if you so choose too), but I suppose I can see me getting myself in trouble.

 

[Ðanisty]

If you think about it Victor, the one thing that makes all Christians Christian is pretty vague too. Believe that Jesus is your savior and try to live like him? I mean, each denomination has more requirements to be a part of their church, but the overall concept is kind of vague.

The only thing required to make you Luciferian is belief that Lucifer represents gnosis (or whatever it is you want to call it), and that it was his choice to rebel against God for our sake. I can't see how racism and stuff can fit into that. If Lucifer is a lover of man, how can you hate man and call yourself Luciferian? If Lucifer represents knowledge and enlightenment and wisdom, how can you be ignorant and call yourself a Luciferian? If Lucifer sacrificed everything to give man free will, how can you advocate total domination over others and call yourself a Luciferian?

 

[Quiddity]

I knew you were going to point this out.

If you think about it Victor, the one thing that makes all Christians Christian is pretty vague too. Believe that Jesus is your savior and try to live like him? I mean, each denomination has more requirements to be a part of their church, but the overall concept is kind of vague.

Actually, there is a way of knowing. The vagueness is really only something of a recent phenomenon (Me, my Bible, and Jesus). Historical Christianity can be identified with clarity if one so chooses to investigate. Interestingly enough it is the rejection of dogma that has lead to this vagueness. But that’s a topic for another forum.

The only thing required to make you Luciferian is belief that Lucifer represents gnosis (or whatever it is you want to call it), and that it was his choice to rebel against God for our sake.

Then I’ll run with this and consider this your dogma.

I can't see how racism and stuff can fit into that. If Lucifer is a lover of man, how can you hate man and call yourself Luciferian? If Lucifer represents knowledge and enlightenment and wisdom, how can you be ignorant and call yourself a Luciferian? If Lucifer sacrificed everything to give man free will, how can you advocate total domination over others and call yourself a Luciferian?

I can’t see it either, but some people can get rather creative with words. I like your understanding of it much better.

 

[IanAlmighty]

The only thing required to make you Luciferian is belief that Lucifer represents gnosis (or whatever it is you want to call it), and that it was his choice to rebel against God for our sake.

Then I’ll run with this and consider this your dogma.

I knew it! All religion has dogma.
: hamster :

 

[Ðanisty]

I knew it! All religion has dogma.
: hamster :

I never said otherwise. :sarcastic

 

[Luciftias]

Hey, Just found this forum and thought I'd give Dansity a hand.

You'll actually find Luciferians that don't believe the entirety of that "dogma" statement.

Personally, I have noticed that people get drawn to Luciferianism because they've realized that not everything they have been told by so-called authority figures is correct. Those of us in this position who were raised Christian will automatically remember Lucifer as the original figure who risked everything, eternally standing up against apparently omnipotent force in order to spread Truth and Knowledge. Basically the whole Tree of Knowledge story from Genesis 2.

That's the biggest connecting factor that I've noticed that defines people who self-identifty as Luciferian: The search for Truth, even if that puts them at odds with the greater society they find themselves in. As progress is made and understanding has matured, it will be understood that the greatest knowledge is knowledge of the Self.

Therefore, it would seem to me, that a Luciferian should have pride in their strengths/accomplishment but also be aware of their limitations/failures. I can't imagine a self-identified Luciferian honestly disparaging pride. It's one of the traditional attributes of Lucifer.

I will admit that Prometheus is probably a better figurehead to use if we want people to understand what we are about, but "Lucifer" has more impact and is often the gateway to learning about Prometheus for these people (myself included.)

Just like Dansity, I only claim to speak for the spirituality that I have personally developed for myself.

In Darkness Visible,
Jeremy Crow
aka Luciftias

 

[Darkness]

I will admit that Prometheus is probably a better figurehead to use if we want people to understand what we are about, but "Lucifer" has more impact and is often the gateway to learning about Prometheus for these people (myself included.)

Luciferian just sounds so much cooler than Promethean.

Seriously, I quite agree with you when you say that the name Lucifer has more impact. A third of the world is Christian. To say I admire the Angel-Rebel Lucifer has much more of an impact on the majority of people than saying I admire the ancient god Prometheus who stole fire from Zeus.

 

[Ðanisty]

Hey, Just found this forum and thought I'd give Dansity a hand.

You'll actually find Luciferians that don't believe the entirety of that "dogma" statement.

Personally, I have noticed that people get drawn to Luciferianism because they've realized that not everything they have been told by so-called authority figures is correct. Those of us in this position who were raised Christian will automatically remember Lucifer as the original figure who risked everything, eternally standing up against apparently omnipotent force in order to spread Truth and Knowledge. Basically the whole Tree of Knowledge story from Genesis 2.

That's the biggest connecting factor that I've noticed that defines people who self-identifty as Luciferian: The search for Truth, even if that puts them at odds with the greater society they find themselves in. As progress is made and understanding has matured, it will be understood that the greatest knowledge is knowledge of the Self.

Therefore, it would seem to me, that a Luciferian should have pride in their strengths/accomplishment but also be aware of their limitations/failures. I can't imagine a self-identified Luciferian honestly disparaging pride. It's one of the traditional attributes of Lucifer.

I will admit that Prometheus is probably a better figurehead to use if we want people to understand what we are about, but "Lucifer" has more impact and is often the gateway to learning about Prometheus for these people (myself included.)

Just like Dansity, I only claim to speak for the spirituality that I have personally developed for myself.

In Darkness Visible,
Jeremy Crow
aka Luciftias

Jeremy! :hug:

How have you been? I got a new MSN name because I couldn't remember my old password. We need to get back in touch!

I really hope you enjoy this forum. It's not like other religious forums and in a lot of ways, it's more laid back than occult forums because we can just chat about spiritual stuff without having to get too heady about it all. It's wonderful. I'm so glad to see you here.

For the record, I agree with Luciftias...lol.

 

[Darkness]

For the record, I agree with Luciftias...lol.

There tends to be a lot of that among Luciferians. Weird isn't it.

Now I am just being mean.

 

[morning-star]

Luciferian just sounds so much cooler than Promethean.

Seriously, I quite agree with you when you say that the name Lucifer has more impact. A third of the world is Christian. To say I admire the Angel-Rebel Lucifer has much more of an impact on the majority of people than saying I admire the ancient god Prometheus who stole fire from Zeus.

I agree both storys have the same utimate meaning, it's then down to if you only see Lucifer and the prometheus story as a symbol, or if you see them as entitys as well.

or the tales may never have happened but the meaning does, and so does the entitys.

 

[Darkness]

I agree both stories have the same ultimate meaning, it's then down to if you only see Lucifer and the Prometheus story as a symbol, or if you see them as entities as well.

or the tales may never have happened but the meaning does, and so does the entities.

Well, I have yet to fully read up on the stories of Lucifer and Prometheus. From what I do understand, I greatly admire their characters. Challenging God (the gods) in a fight for what is right, is very noble and makes their characters proper role models.

I, being an Agnostic, have to view them as purely mythical beings, but that does not lessen their impact or what we can learn from their tales.