Luciferianism

[onegothmama]

Tiamat, Abyssic Magick, Black Order of the Dragon, The Order of Phosphorus The Order of Phospherous website.

This one looks interesting: Maiden of Light Holy Orthodox Temple if you're studying various types of Luciferianism.

And here is an article on Luciferianism Luciferianism | Spiral Nature

 

[Magnetic7]

I know this thread isn't very active, but I am currently trying to look into Luciferianism of the atheistic/pantheistic sort. I can't find much information anywhere though. I also don't have access to a library so that puts a damper on my persuit. I currently consider myself a LaVeyan Satanist, and have for a few years, but I am noticing a trend among LaVeyan's in as much that they seem to be taking Satanism way too dogmaticly. They are making the Satanic Bible the be all and end all, and they are idolizing LaVey as if he were a god.

As a side note, I give the guy credit.. he raised himself to godhead status and is allowing others to keep him there. Talk about "life after death through fulfillment of the ego."

Well I think what they are doing goes completely against actual LHPness, and has been the reason why I never officially joined the CoS to begin with. When I stumbled upon this site, I found Luciferianism, and it agrees with my views a little more, but information is hard to come by that can be deemed as legitimate. Does anyone know of a book I can read, or a site that I can go to for more information? I have already read the FAQ and Scales of Justice articles on the CoL website. Thanks.

Hi, I have a fairly substantial source of documents and books on Luciferianism and would be willing to send you some if you would like to PM me. You did not mention an interest in Setian philosophy, but I believe that you might also find it at least refreshing in comparison with the disappointing direction that the CoS has taken (although it does have a theistic leaning, it is not an expectation that individuals apply it in a literal sense, but have a comprehension of the philosophical and metaphorical meanings).

I too, hestitate to join-up with websites, societies, etc., as it is very hard to gauge the substantiveness or worthiness of an organization, especially in these times of high maneuver sales, media, and proselytizing tactics

 

[Sireal]

Hi, I have a fairly substantial source of documents and books on Luciferianism and would be willing to send you some if you would like to PM me. You did not mention an interest in Setian philosophy, but I believe that you might also find it at least refreshing in comparison with the disappointing direction that the CoS has taken (although it does have a theistic leaning, it is not an expectation that individuals apply it in a literal sense, but have a comprehension of the philosophical and metaphorical meanings).

I too, hestitate to join-up with websites, societies, etc., as it is very hard to gauge the substantiveness or worthiness of an organization, especially in these times of high maneuver sales, media, and proselytizing tactics

I guess that answers one question
It took twenty years of scrutinizing before I affiliated with any LHP group and I looked very carefuly at as many as I could find. I'm grateful for the time I spent solo and highly recommend the efficacy of pursuing Initiation on ones own as long as one can or feels the need to. Setian Black Magic and philosophy was a most welcome addition to my toolbox much of which can be had without joining the Temple itself.

 

[Apion]

Sireal,

I love the way you mentioned the concept of the toolbox and personal autonomy. Far too many join an organization for personal identity or an immature expectation that it will provide them with something they lack. It puts the focus on the organization to live up to their expectations, and the immature student identifies with the organization and label: two receipes for disaster. When they find fault with the organization, which is inevitable in an imperfect world, it indicates a fault with them if they continue to stay and find the next step is either rebellion against either that organization or all organized groups, or denying and explaining away the faults to protect their self-image. Neither is helpful.

The more mature perspective is to understand that the organization should be evaluated as a school, a toolbox where you are free to enjoy the useful elements while recognizing yet not being effected by those that do not help you in your goals and development. Of course there will be flaws, but you are an individual using the tools and resources provided instead of having to see the faults as a part of your personal identity. Identity is not utility.

 

[Magnetic7]

Sireal,

I love the way you mentioned the concept of the toolbox and personal autonomy. Far too many join an organization for personal identity or an immature expectation that it will provide them with something they lack. It puts the focus on the organization to live up to their expectations, and the immature student identifies with the organization and label: two receipes for disaster. When they find fault with the organization, which is inevitable in an imperfect world, it indicates a fault with them if they continue to stay and find the next step is either rebellion against either that organization or all organized groups, or denying and explaining away the faults to protect their self-image. Neither is helpful.

The more mature perspective is to understand that the organization should be evaluated as a school, a toolbox where you are free to enjoy the useful elements while recognizing yet not being effected by those that do not help you in your goals and development. Of course there will be flaws, but you are an individual using the tools and resources provided instead of having to see the faults as a part of your personal identity. Identity is not utility.

Your comment is well noted, but I believe that Sireal was addressing lone personal Initiation, rather than Organizational; and his toolbox an analogy of his individual acquistion of Conciousness and intellectual knowledge, rather than a physical Society

I do agree however, with your insight regarding the lack of deep 'spiritual' (literal or metaphorical) motivation, of a majority of candidates for Arcane schools.

 

[Apion]

Magnetic7,

I was actually making the point of organizations as almost the frosting on one's life, another tool for personal development or initiation.

Lone initiation and organizational don't have to be mutually exclusive.

 

[Sireal]

Magnetic7,

I was actually making the point of organizations as almost the frosting on one's life, another tool for personal development or initiation.

Lone initiation and organizational don't have to be mutually exclusive.

For some a very important tool kit too, others may decide they do not need it. The benefit of using a tool in its context is not to go unrecognized, the ToS material attainable is one thing, using in the context of Setian Initiation quite another. This I think holds for many paths.
I experienced Thelema as a solo practitioner, anyone who has experience with an actual group would say they are two very different experiences. I did this delibertely though so that makes me a bit odd in that world. In fact most of my research and journey's on this road have been on my own so I know the path of my Self from a fiarly subjective persepctive not having many folks to bounce stuff off of. When I did choose to engage a structured environment like the school of the Temple of Set I think I hit my mark very well indeed. LHP Initiation is accomplished Alone, the school adds to the refinement of the path or at least it has for me, and Apion you are right on- they are not mutually exclusive IME.

 

[Magnetic7]

Lone initiation and organizational don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I never indicated that they did, or had to be. I believe that my statement was intended to be a further clarification on the stance of the original post. In fact, I think it is rather obvious that one should not go without the other, especially if a person is truly committed to making a complete Initiation into the Darkness (hand-holding and artificial limbs will never achieve such mastery). It should go without saying that this is of course in reference to the circumstance of an Organizational approach (which again supports the agreed upon perception regarding the lack of mature applicants to Arcane schools).

 

[backtothetanks]

I am glad this thread is here. I have some views on Lucifer, and I was wondering if my thoughts are common amongst Satanism or Luciferianism.

I think that the Abrahamic God (Christianity/Judaism/Islam/Bahai/etc. etc.), who I usually refer to as "Jehovah" to differentiate Him from other powerful beings, is the "Demiurge". I use the term to mean an imperfect god that created our observable universe and is not the most powerful force in existence. Humans were created in Jehovah's image, in order to worship Him. Jehovah forbade the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge because it would give humans power. I view Him as a tyrannical ruler, and angels are Jehovah's personal company. Lucifer was an angel who saw Jehovah for what He really was, and this is why he rebelled. Thus, Lucifer is a being who wants to share knowledge with humanity, and Jehovah (God, Allah, Christ) is a crual king who promises rewards for worship or eternal suffering for defiance.

I also believe in the subtle force of magic(k), a projection of man's willpower. "Satan", in my opinion, is just another name for Lucifer that has gathered much more bad PR.

Are these views consistent with Theistic Satanism? If this post came off as kind of dark, I apologize. I have full respect for all of the Abrahamic faiths, these are just my opinions.

EDIT: I realized I might not have worded this carefully enough. I do not beleive God created the Earth in 7 days, and I believe fully in the Big Bang and evolution. I think man evolved to look like God over time, and I also do not interpret the Bible as literal, but I do think that my Luciferianism is summed up by: "an angel rejected God and wished to teach humanity" and this angel is known to us as Lucifer. I think I believe in Luciferianism but influenced by Gnosticism, Deism, witchcraft, and pagan religions.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Teh difference being luciferianism is ultimatly about the self, where Gnosticism does kind of call "Jehova, evil" ... it does not advocate self Gnosis... Athough of course there are darker strands of Gnosticism, despite the insistance of the early church fathers not all Gnostics drank blood and worse.... though undoubtedly some did.... in modern times... some calling themselves Gnostics do such things also... this would be more in line with the LHP, which is essentially a philosophy of solipsism... even in a theistic form (though I am sure I'll get lynched for saying so)

 

[Erebus]

this would be more in line with the LHP, which is essentially a philosophy of solipsism

While the LHP can be solipsistic in some cases I would argue that this isn't it's core philosophy. Solipsism is definitely in keeping with a LHP mentality, but is more likely to be a characteristic of individual adherents of the LHP rather than being applicable to the LHP as a whole. But then that's just my opinion

backtothetanks: Your viewpoints are most certainly in keeping with some elements of theistic Satanism and theistic Luciferianism, but bear in mind that both religions are currently in a state of utter disorganisation and so it is up to the individual to a certain extent to define what Luciferianism/theistic Satanism means to them. For example, some forms of Luciferianism are atheistic or pantheistic, while some forms of theistic Satanism are more akin to worship of aliens than worship of deities (evil reptile Yahweh anybody?).

 

[backtothetanks]

I think I'm starting to lean more towards LaVeyan Satanism, as opposed to Theistic Satanism/Luciferianism, because the existence of deities in general are sketchy for me right now. Demiurge or not. My beliefs about "Lucifer" sound much better in a symbolic context.

I think I kind of said "Luciferian" on a whim.

 

[Mr Cheese]

I think I'm starting to lean more towards LaVeyan Satanism, as opposed to Theistic Satanism/Luciferianism, because the existence of deities in general are sketchy for me right now. Demiurge or not. My beliefs about "Lucifer" sound much better in a symbolic context.

I think I kind of said "Luciferian" on a whim.

well satanism, especially laveyan I think can be summed up quickly:

Indulgence

selfishness

.....

I think Marilyn Manson sums it up well:

"There's no time to discriminate hate every mofo that gets in your way"

I'll shut up now, lest I offend more people

 

[backtothetanks]

well satanism, especially laveyan I think can be summed up quickly:

Indulgence

selfishness

.....

I think Marilyn Manson sums it up well:

"There's no time to discriminate hate every mofo that gets in your way"

I'll shut up now, lest I offend more people

No offense taken. I agree with that whole-heartedly. "I am my own God".

 

[The Hammer]

well satanism, especially laveyan I think can be summed up quickly:

Indulgence

selfishness

.....

I think Marilyn Manson sums it up well:

"There's no time to discriminate hate every mofo that gets in your way"

I'll shut up now, lest I offend more people

-- Self-reliance
-- Responsibility to the responsible
-- Individuality

IMO I think that sums up La Veyan Satanism a little better than selfishness and indulgence, although those are a part of it.