mahavatar babaji

[Vinayaka]

I too have seen siddhis in action. But I've also seen television in action. It's normal business in a certain realm, and does no more to lead you to the Self than television does. One still has to get up, have a bath, do puja, and work on the inside removing the dross on the inside ... all by oneself ... no siddhi can help you. A teacher can show you the path, but you have to walk it.

Yes some will disagree, figuring the enlightened being can wave the magic wand and bestow enlightenment.

 

[George-ananda]

I too have seen siddhis in action. But I've also seen television in action. It's normal business in a certain realm, and does no more to lead you to the Self than television does. One still has to get up, have a bath, do puja, and work on the inside removing the dross on the inside ... all by oneself ... no siddhi can help you. A teacher can show you the path, but you have to walk it.

Yes some will disagree, figuring the enlightened being can wave the magic wand and bestow enlightenment.

As a westerner, to me the importance of siddhis is in showing me the dramatic incompleteness of the western scientific worldview. At that point I am more interested in learning of the spiritual world and the practices that can truly help me.

 

[George-ananda]

Oh yes, science cannot confirm or deny that there is a tea-kettle orbiting the earth.

Not sure how that addresses my post. I am not claiming absence of disproof; but putting forward positive supporting evidence for my claims of beyond the normal phenomena..

But George, a difference of opinion does not mean cessation of relationship. Had it been that, I would not be with my theist family. So, let us still be friends.

This is to me the correct and right attitude.

 

[George-ananda]

No way, Sassymaa, a hardened atheist, anti-supernatural here.

That 'hardened' part sounds closed-minded which to me is an anti-scientific mindset.

 

[Vinayaka]

As a westerner, to me the importance of siddhis is in showing me the dramatic incompleteness of the western scientific worldview. At that point I am more interested in learning of the spiritual world and the practices that can truly help me.

I see them as irrelevant, a natural outcome yes, but still irrelevant. Too many people, in my opinion get distracted by siddhis over bhakti or sadhana. As far as what you said, this soul needs no convincing whatsoever. The difference between the intellectual skeptic, and the practicing mystic is experience only. Same too with reincarnation, living presence of God, etc. God is as visible as my face in the mirror. Reincarnation is as obvious as the car needing gas when the gauge says empty.

Since mystics don't argue, I more or less leave the doubters alone, as well as, 'Yay, this is so cool' introduction to phenomena crowd. So what! It's really just no big deal.

 

[George-ananda]

I see them as irrelevant, a natural outcome yes, but still irrelevant. Too many people, in my opinion get distracted by siddhis over bhakti or sadhana. As far as what you said, this soul needs no convincing whatsoever. The difference between the intellectual skeptic, and the practicing mystic is experience only. Same too with reincarnation, living presence of God, etc. God is as visible as my face in the mirror. Reincarnation is as obvious as the car needing gas when the gauge says empty.

Since mystics don't aergue, I more or less leave the doubters alone, as well as, 'Yay, this is so cool' introduction to phenomena crowd. So what! It's really just no big deal.

We'll, perhaps my mystical and intuitive abilities are not to your level of advancement (no sarcasm). I do need the confirmation of there is a beyond to have the interest to want to learn and advance spiritually.

 

[Sw. Vandana Jyothi]

The difference between the intellectual skeptic, and the practicing mystic is experience only.

True words, well spoken, Vinayakaji.

Too many people, in my opinion get distracted by siddhis over bhakti or sadhana.

For sure, there is a danger in doing sadhana only for the sake of acquiring siddhis. No true Master will encourage his chelas to seek them nor will he display his own willy-nilly; rather he will caution the chela to go beyond them, not be tempted by them, even calling them "an obstacle" to Self-realization. But they do serve a purpose in the divine scheme of things and to say they don't exist is contrary to shastra and shruti. But hey, no surprise, there's a lot of that going on these days.

 

[Sw. Vandana Jyothi]

We'll, perhaps my mystical and intuitive abilities are not to your level of advancement (no sarcasm). I do need the confirmation of there is a beyond to have the interest to want to learn and advance spiritually.

Not that you would, but I for one very enthusiastically encourage you not to stop your search for confirmation. Your reason for seeking is sound, i.e., "learn and advance spiritually." May our Beloved grant you the same.

 

[HarihOm]

Namaste,

I cannot personally attest mahavatar babaji's age, but there have been others who have claimed a long life, not just in India. Along with Paramahamsa there are other popular books, like Walking with Himalayan Masters, 7 years in Tibet and many other written accounts of people with super normal abilities. This is nothing new to India, how to identify what is true and what is false is not so easy, if some people are able to use to their advantage parts of phenomena that are not normally accessible to the masses then how would one then hope to measure it. Of course this will lead into so many theories and opinions, which will add to the confusion, but there must be another way to research the mind sciences and the results, I think the ancient's knew and gave clear instructions and concepts packed with realization, but their language can be vague at times and often cryptic to the uninitiated, by initiation I am referring to some sort of paradigm shifts.

I do believe by my study of both Hindu and Buddhist mind sciences, along with Taoist and other forms of mysticism and also some science mixed in I have come to my own personal conclusion that there is much more potential at least than we can imagine within the limits of science, logic and empiricism. But how and where do we draw the line between stupidity and the profound.

There have been many tests in recent times, both by personal practitioners and different types of scientist to understand mysticism and consciousness from ancient traditions for varying reasons. Its a very interesting subject, I could say I am a Hindu, A Buddhist , A Vedantist, but rather it feels more comfortable for me to say I am a student of consciousness and I am open to all forms of study of this phenomenon, I do have more of a strong feeling that the ancients had a more profound knowledge of it than we do today, the cultures surrounding ancients almost fully supported the exploration of consciousness, now everything is approached differently due to mass exposure and a type of mass cultural migration due to easy ways to travel and communicate, internet being the main media, we may think we understand things, but has this knowledge which has already been discovered really taken root. It seems the complexity of understanding reality from the conscious perspective has increased due to a massive wave of information and wondering what to make of it, at this time it seems the world is in discussion and trying to communicate and find that common ground to then build on with a fresher more clearer understanding.

With all the information we have today how much has been really absorbed. In my study and understanding one thing that I have noticed especially within Asian traditions is that siddhis, which not only means some type of mystical ability or magic trick, like walking on water, becoming lighter than air etc, but siddhi also means perfection, perfections or siddhis come from practice or sadhana, over long periods of time in environments that are conducive, or at least the mind has sufficient training in understanding and being in harmony with ones natural environment, some sort of mental peace and equilibrium is needed. These practices were cultivated over very long periods of time, lifetimes if we are to go by the traditions that accept continuum of consciousness.

Is it not that at least within the Dharmic traditions that ultimately the final goal is some sort of Super Consciousness, Para Brahman, Supreme Reality, Supreme Truth, it is neither being or non being, but also both at the same time, same goes with existence, something beyond conceptual understanding, something free from limitations, free from boundaries and hindrances, supramundane, if this is something that one accepts by logic and insight then how open is the door to the potential of being and its manifestations, what would be the full power of nirguna Brahman, Nirguna is not abstract, its not something that exists outside of itself.

 

[Vinayaka]

One of the great ironies to all this is that the magic happens when you're not looking for it, when you least expect it. I asked my Guru this recently ... "How do you tell if it's your own insight, or just the ego trying to trick you? Are there any signs or ways to notice the difference?" He told me that the insights comes unbidden, when you're NOT trying. But as Swamini indicated, one still has to try, but mostly its just by being aware of what's actually going on around you. People are often surprised when they take a closer look. I know I am.

 

[Sw. Vandana Jyothi]

One of the great ironies to all this is that the magic happens when you're not looking for it, when you least expect it. I asked my Guru this recently ... "How do you tell if it's your own insight, or just the ego trying to trick you? Are there any signs or ways to notice the difference?" He told me that the insights comes unbidden, when you're NOT trying. But as Swamini indicated, one still has to try, but mostly its just by being aware of what's actually going on around you. People are often surprised when they take a closer look. I know I am.

It is an irony that experience comes unsought and in that experience, something which I truly consider one of the most profound mercies of God for obvious reasons, is that when He or She or It blossoms within, manifests if you will, comes to pay a visit, He/She/It leaves NO doubt whatsoever in His wake. An experience of "transcendental Reality" is WAY more real than anything we experience here (ordinary waking or dreaming consciousness); the difference is profound. The mystery is how it becomes a memory like everything else, even though absolutely everything changes for you. Never the same but still we have the dross and gross (as Vinayakaji put it) garbage we came in with to deal with. Sigh. Prarabdha karma. I kept telling my kids when they were growing up to make good choices today 'cuz they're be living with them faaarrr into the future... future... future. (That's my clumsy attempt at indicating an echo....) Ah, dear me as @Terese sighed yesterday.

 

[Vinayaka]

Another irony is sometimes you don't even know it (a mystical event. or vision) happened until years later. It was that real, you just figured everyone else saw it too. And then in some discussion you find out that nobody else saw it.

But yes, 'no doubt' whatsoever is a theme. Others can say all they want ... they can say you were imagining, had hallucinations, you're inventing stuff for attention, etc. etc., blah, blah blah. As if it was THEIR experience to ponder. lol Yes that could be true, or not. That is why I'm a complete agnostic on other peoples' experiences. Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[Sw. Vandana Jyothi]

Another irony is sometimes you don't even know it (a mystical event. or vision) happened until years later. It was that real, you just figured everyone else saw it too. And then in some discussion you find out that nobody else saw it.

But yes, 'no doubt' whatsoever is a theme. Others can say all they want ... they can say you were imagining, had hallucinations, you're inventing stuff for attention, etc. etc., blah, blah blah. As if it was THEIR experience to ponder. lol Yes that could be true, or not. That is why I'm a complete agnostic on other peoples' experiences. Maybe. Maybe not.

You made me laugh out loud, Vi'ji. Sometimes, though, face to face, eye to twinkling eye, don't you find you just know a person has had that vision or experience; that you also experience the truth behind the words? Like you, though, 99.999% of the time, I too hold my consent to believe in reserve. It wasn't my experience, sooooo....it's still their story, not mine.

 

[Vinayaka]

Consider the source.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That 'hardened' part sounds closed-minded which to me is an anti-scientific mindset.

There is no tea-kettle orbiting the Earth however hard we may fancy it. There has to be a reason for it to be there. Did the Chinese place it there?

 

[George-ananda]

There is no tea-kettle orbiting the Earth however hard we may fancy it.

I guess most of us see a difference in likelihood between a tea-kettle orbiting the earth and siddhis.

There has to be a reason for it to be there. Did the Chinese place it there?

Really??? The rest of us are trying to have a mature conversation about Mahavatar Babaji. Hint.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Really??? The rest of us are trying to have a mature conversation about Mahavatar Babaji. Hint.

900 years for Adam, is that mature? Be a realist.

 

[George-ananda]

900 years for Adam, is that mature? Be a realist.

Did I say anything about Adam?? I was talking about Mahavatar Babji.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Any difference?

 

[Chakra]

Can we please get rid of the confrontational tone here? People who wish to refute the siddhi qualities of Mahavatar Babaji, please create a thread in the debate forums. Similarly, anyone trying to refute the non-acceptance of the siddhi qualities of Mahavatar Babaji should do the same.