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mahavatar babaji

shivsomashekhar

Well-Known Member
As a westerner, to me the importance of siddhis is in showing me the dramatic incompleteness of the western scientific worldview. At that point I am more interested in learning of the spiritual world and the practices that can truly help me.

In India, during childhood, I was exposed to a variety of Puranic stories of miracles and also Siddhis of Sadhus (levitation, producing tingling effect through Diksha, etc, etc.,). At that age there was no doubt and they were all accepted as true.

However, after adolescence, I got curious to see some of these for myself, traveling to places near and far and that effort turned out to be an eye-opener. Every one of the claims was bogus. In most cases, it was the disciples misrepresenting facts, either to entice others or to convince themselves that their Guru was extra-ordinary - which would justify the time and effort they were putting into their Sadhana. For instance, in the case of Ramana, his followers were always eager to see something that would differentiate Ramana from other people, something that affirmed their belief that he was enlightened and therefore, had special powers and insight. Though, Ramana himself never made any such claim or gave any such indication, it did not stop the disciples from interpreting regular incidents as miracles.

I remember a case of a holy man who was living on top a hill in Tamilnadu and was constantly in meditation without food and water. But when contact was made, the disciples were feeding him! The story changed at that point; he never asked for food/water and so they were periodically fed him.

In other cases, there were no disciples, but the stories were hoaxes. I have tracked down a few levitation stories and needless to say, not one was true. The excuses were any of these - The person is dead, he does not do it anymore or he does not do it in public.

There are more ( prodigies reciting Vedas, reincarnation claims, ash emerging from Sai Baba pictures, Ganesha idols drinking milk, etc.,) which were all bogus too. After all these years, in spite of several attempts, I am yet to see *one* act of magic or Siddhi, which cannot be explained by science.

It comes down to this; people *want* to believe. They want to believe in supernatural powers (wine into water, healing the blind, Krishna dancing on the head of a snake, etc.,). It helps reaffirm their beliefs and removes doubt that they may be wasting time. And as long as there is such a demand, there will be supply in the form of Benny Hinn and the like. The Hindi movie PK did an excellent job of putting this in perspective.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
There are more ( prodigies reciting Vedas, reincarnation claims, ash emerging from Sai Baba pictures, Ganesha idols drinking milk, etc.,) which were all bogus too.
How did you determine those two things were bogus; Sai Baba and the Hindu Milk Miracle. You claim it like it as a matter of fact. Do you study both sides of these controversies?

Sai Baba miracles I believe beyond all reasonable doubt myself. The most thorough investigation by a western scientist was Dr. Erlendur Haraldsson. And his investigation and book is certainly the most thorough on the subject.
 

shivsomashekhar

Well-Known Member
How did you determine those two things were bogus; Sai Baba and the Hindu Milk Miracle. You claim it like it as a matter of fact. Do you study both sides of these controversies?

1. Ash from Sai Baba photos: The stories turned out to be bogus. The two cases we checked had no ash coming out of the pictures.

2. The milk incident: It was the 90s and I was in India then. There was great excitement around the city that night and we experimented at home. It turned out to be nothing more than capillary action that was easily reproducible on any curved surface. Just another false positive. News of the capillary action spread around and the excitement died down the very next morning.

As I write this, I am remembering more. A remote hill in Karnataka, with a temple and caves on top - reputed to have 60+ spiritual Siddhas living on the hill. With a friend, I stayed overnight deep in side the caves, facing the Samadhi of some Saint who had meditated in these caves. The story was that we would hear the sounds of chanting and bells at around 3 AM. Neither of us heard a thing. Then - as usual - the story changed to, it does not happen always.

I would be interested to know what tests you ran that verified miracle stories. I will ping you privately.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
1. Ash from Sai Baba photos: The stories turned out to be bogus. The two cases we checked had no ash coming out of the pictures.
Just two. The phenomena is temporary.
2. The milk incident: It was the 90s and I was in India then. There was great excitement around the city that night and we experimented at home. It turned out to be nothing more than capillary action that was easily reproducible on any curved surface. Just another false positive. News of the capillary action spread around and the excitement died down the very next morning.
The capillary action story has been heavily criticized too. In fact it involved metals and marble figures too.
As I write this, I am remembering more. A remote hill in Karnataka, with a temple and caves on top - reputed to have 60+ spiritual Siddhas living on the hill. With a friend, I stayed overnight deep in side the caves, facing the Samadhi of some Saint who had meditated in these caves. The story was that we would hear the sounds of chanting and bells at around 3 AM. Neither of us heard a thing. Then - as usual - the story changed to, it does not happen always.
This hill is not something I am familiar with.
I would be interested to know what tests you ran that verified miracle stories. I will ping you privately.
I am not a direct investigator. I listen to all evidence and argumentation. There are many serious investigators whose work is thorough and as unbiased as possible.


I am just curious. Are you a materialist like Aup?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Two cases are good enough - given that the occurence of such claims are not common.
Sorry but that tells me you are not familiar with this particular issue. There are many, many cases and still happening. In fact it is claimed at a house in my home state even: Michigan. Here's the video


- an immaterialist (it is a real word).
Can you explain that please. I don't understand.
 

shivsomashekhar

Well-Known Member
Sorry but that tells me you are not familiar with this particular issue. There are many, many cases and still happening. In fact it is claimed at a house in my home state even: Michigan. Here's the video

I will check the video. If it is happening in your home state, perhaps you could find some time to look it up for yourself? Though, from experience, it is hard for us to ask to inspect the photograph - remove it from its place. It offends them and it is unlikely that would allow such tests. But it is always worth a try.

Can you explain that please. I don't understand.

Immaterialism = Subjective Idealism. Back around the 5th Century CE in India, the idea of the world coming into existence only on perception, came into effect. Out of this line of thought, emerged Yogachara Buddhism (Vijnana-vada) and Gaudapada's Ajativada. Also, the monistic text named Yoga Vasistha (Maha-Ramayana).

For a materialist - the world is real, time and space and real, the world existed before him and will continue to exist after him.

For the immaterialist - the world is perceived as thought, time and space are thoughts, there is no thought without the thinker and so there is no question of a world without him. That is, things exist only when we think about them. In short, there is no such thing as a material world for they are only our thoughts.

From wikipedia -
Drishti-srishti-vada (Sanskrit: दृष्टिसृष्टिवाद) or 'the doctrine of creation through perception', is an offshoot of Advaita Vedanta, which doctrine maintains that the perceived phenomenal world comes into existence only in the process of man’s observation of the world which is seen as a world of his own mental construction; having no objective reality, it exists only in his mind....This doctrine is aligned with the doctrine of Ajatavada, that of 'non-causality.

Ramana termed this concept as the 'doctrine of simultaneous creation' or as the 'theory of false appearance', which theory maintains that all objects depend for their apparent existence upon the seer; that the world only exists when it is perceived, i.e. with the appearance of I-thought.
 

HarihOm

Member
Namaste,

According some yogic rules the powers that they attain through sadhana to get siddhis should never be revealed in public or to the faithless, so if someone is displaying powers then it would go against certain rules. There is the problem of misleading, but if something is used to establish Dharma and the way then its acceptable. Perhaps now in these days the ability of man to reach more potentail is dwindled and may even be non existent, and there are so many so called Gurus and Godmen that will exploit the past for fame, money and adoration.

In India there are so many stories, in fact the whole culture is based on miraculous things happening, how we interpret this is another thing.

Siddhis and powers have long been existing within Indian Culture. In the Pali Tradition the accounts of Moggallana are quite interesting, Moggallana was an adept yogi and mystic, Siddharta was quite strict about the use of powers that arouse from Siddhi or Iddhi in Pali, but he gave credit to Moggallana who used his skills in helping people.

This is an interesting read


Moggallana's Magical Powers

In the discourse about the disciples who excelled in special capacities and qualities (A. I, 13), the Buddha said that Moggallana was foremost among the Bhikkhus who possessed magical faculties. One day when Moggallana with some of his disciples walked up and down, the Buddha told his monks that Moggallana possessed great supernormal powers, and so did his pupils; thus beings congregate according to their nature and disposition. (S. 14, 15) There were, of course, also other prominent disciples highly skilled in one or the other of the various magical powers. But they mastered only some of them: the monk Anuruddha and the nun Sakula, for instance, possessed the supernormal vision of the Divine Eye; the monk Sobhita and the nun Bhadda Kapilani could recollect far into the past; the monk Sagalo had masterly control of the fire element; Cula Panthaka was skilled in "astral travel"; and Pilinda excelled in communication with heavenly beings. Maha Moggallana, however, was perfect master of the magical faculties in a very comprehensive way. He mastered the various kinds of supernormal powers altogether, surpassing in them the other disciples. He also excelled by far the nun Uppallavanna who was foremost among the nuns in regard to magical faculties.

For appreciating the old reports on Moggallana's magical (parapsychological) faculties, one ought to know how such things can be possible at all. The world of so-called matter as perceived through our five senses — which to-day's physicists conceive as a manifestation of energy — is only a small section of that much wider reality which consists of other vibrational forms of energy. Inklings of it, under terms like "anti-matter," "Psi-power," the "Astral," or "Prana," have penetrated into our range of experience. As we perceive only the narrow sector of our human world, we are inclined to regard its limited laws as absolutes. But the universe as experienced by the wise, is much larger, and the laws in force in it have also an impact upon our own world. It is that impact of different laws which is called a miracle. But whenever a higher or wider world manifests itself, the true miracle is that people can be so imprisoned within their narrow outlook that they just ignore all what is beyond their limited faculties, in spite of the fact that the effects of those other forces and laws are undeniably present. But whosoever, as the Buddha and Moggallana, has highly developed his capacity to experience that wider reality with his higher sense faculties refined by cultivating the Four Ways of Power (iddhipada), will realize a sheer infinite widening of experience in space and time. His horizon and experiential knowledge will grow universal and immeasurable, transcending all boundaries and limitations.

When Sariputta asked (in M. 32) to which type of monk those assembled would give the highest praise, Moggallana replied that from his point of view such a monk would be truly brilliant who can engage best in dialogues and discussions on the Teaching. Later the Buddha confirmed that Moggallana was indeed a very capable speaker on Dhamma. In fact, talks on Dhamma gain in range and depth when they issue from an experience that transcends the realm of the senses. The more one had widened one's consciousness by such experiences, the more one had to say. One who has personal experience of those many avenues of liberating wisdom will best be able to conduct talks on Dhamma and make them lively and stimulating. Examples of such discourses given by Maha-Moggallana are M. 15 and 37, A, X. 84, S. 35, 202, S. 44, 7-8.

We shall now turn to what the Buddhist canonical texts relate about Moggallana's supernormal faculties, presenting the material grouped according to the types of faculties concerned.

1. Penetration of others' minds and thought-reading (telepathy)
Once on an Uposatha day, the Buddha sat silently throughout the whole night in front of the assembly of monks. When the morning dawned, he only said: "This assembly is impure." Thereupon Moggallana surveyed with his mind the entire assembly from monk to monk and saw that one monk was entirely corrupted. He went towards him and asked him to leave. When that monk did not move though asked thrice, Moggallana took him by the arm, led him out of the hall and bolted the door. Then he begged the Exalted One to recite the Rules of Monastic Discipline (Patimokkha), as the assembly was now pure again. (A. VIII, 20)

Once the Master stayed together with a community of five hundred monks who all were saints. When Moggallana joined them, he at once discerned in his heart that all these monks were canker-freed Arahats. Then one of these saintly monks who, on his part, cognized Moggallana's supernormal perception, rose from his seat and praised Moggallana in the following verses:

"Him who serenely sits on mountain's slope,
a sage who has transcended ill entire —
to him disciples pay their homage,
themselves of triple knowledge, vanquishers of death.
He has discerned them by his mental power,
the master of the supernormal, Moggallana.
He probed their minds with his
and found them free and unattached."

— Samyutta Nikaya 8, 10

A third report says: Once, while the venerable Anuruddha was meditating in solitude, he considered how, by means of the four Foundations of Mindfulness (satipatthana) the Noble Path that leads to the extinction of suffering can be perfected. Then Moggallana, penetrating Anuruddha's mind by his own, appeared before him through supernormal power and requested him to describe in detail this method of practice (Samy. 52, 1-2).

2. The Divine Ear (clair-audience)
One evening when Sariputta went to see Moggallana, he found his features had such a strikingly serene expression that Sariputta felt moved to ask Moggallana whether he had dwelt in one of the peaceful abodes of mind. Moggallana replied that he had dwelt only in one of the less refined abodes, but that he had been engaged in a talk on the Teaching. On being asked with whom he had such a talk, he replied that it had been with the Exalted One. Sariputta remarked that the Master was now dwelling very far away, in Savatthi, while they themselves were here in Rajagaha. Did Moggallana, by way of his supernormal power, go to the Buddha, or did the Buddha come to him? Moggallana replied that neither had been the case. It was rather the Divine Eye and the Divine Ear, which had been purified and perfected in both of them, that enabled them to have a Dhamma talk on the mental faculty of energy. Then Sariputta exclaimed that Moggallana, being endowed with powers so great, might be able to live through an entire aeon (kalpa), like a Buddha, if he so wished. (Samy. 21, 3)

With the Divine Ear, Moggallana could also hear the voices of non-human beings, deities, spirits, etc., and receive messages from them. So, for instance, a spirit had warned him against Devadatta who harbored evil intentions towards the Buddha and planned a plot against him. (Culla Vagga VII, 2)

3. The Divine Eye (Clairvoyance, Second Sight, Visions)
As mentioned above, Moggallana, with his Divine Eye, was able to perceive the Buddha over a long-distance. (Samy. 21, 3)

Once the following happened. While Sariputta was sitting in quiet meditation, a wanton demon (Yakkha) hit him on the head. Moggallana saw it and asked his friend whether he had felt much pain. Sariputta smiled and said that he had just felt a slight touch of headache. Them Moggallana praised his strength of concentration, but Sariputta said that Moggallana had been able to see that demon while he himself could not. (Ud. IV, 4)

Once Moggallana saw with the Divine Eye how King Pasenadi had been defeated in battle by the Licchavis, but that afterwards he had gathered his troops again and vanquished the Licchavis. When Moggallana told this, some monks accused him that he had falsely boasted about his supernormal faculties, which is a disciplinary offense making a monk subject to expulsion from the Order. The Buddha, however, explained that Moggallana had told only what he saw and what had actually happened. (Parajika IV, 95; case No. 17)

Above all, he often saw the operation of the law of Kamma and its fruits. Again and again he saw how human beings, due to their evil actions that harmed fellow-beings, were reborn among unhappy ghosts under-going much suffering; while others by their charitable deeds rose upwards to lower heavenly worlds that were close to the human plane. He often gave instances of this for exemplifying the law of kamma. The reports about this are too numerous for including them here. In two books of the Pali canon, dealing with the ghost realm (the Petavatthu) and the heavenly abodes (theVimanavathu), nine, respectively fifty-one, of such reports are given. From this it can be readily understood why Moggallana was famous as one who knew the worlds beyond as well as the workings of Kamma. The reports are too numerous for inclusion, but at least one of his recorded in the Samyutta Nikaya should be mentioned here (Samy. 19. 1-21 == Paraj. IV, 9; 15th case).

Once Moggallana lived on Vulture's Peak, near Rajagaha, together with the Bhikkhu Lakkhana, one of the thousand Brahman ascetics who had been converted together with Uruvela-Kassapa. One morning when they had descended from the peak for going on alms-round in the town, Moggallana smiled when they reached a certain place on the road. When his companion asked him for the reason, Moggallana said that now it was not the right time to explain it, he would tell it in the presence of the Master. When they later met the Buddha, Lakkhana repeated his question. Moggallana now said that at that spot he had seen many miserable ghosts flying through the air, chased around and tormented by various kinds of afflictions and sufferings. The Buddha confirmed this as absolutely true and added that he himself spoke only reluctantly about such appearances because people with superficial minds would not believe it. Then the Buddha, out of his universal knowledge, explained what propensities and behavior had brought those ghosts seen by Moggallana to their present pitiable position.
 

HarihOm

Member
Namaste Part 2

4. Travel by "mind-made body" ("Astral Travel")
"Just as a person may bend his stretched arm or stretch his bent arm," so quickly was Moggallana able to depart bodily from the human world and reappear in a celestial realm. Repeatedly he made use of this capacity for instructing other beings and looking after the affairs of the Order. Thus he taught the Gods of the Thirty-three the Factors of stream-entry, or tested Sakka, King of Gods, whether he had understood the teaching about the extinction of craving (Majjh, 37). Once when the Buddha was preaching for three months in one of the heavenly worlds, Moggallana appeared in that heaven and informed the Master of happenings in the Order, asking him for instructions (Jat, 483E). He visited not only the gods of the Sense-sphere, but also those of the Brahma world. Thus he appeared before a Brahma deity who believed that there were no ascetics capable of entering his realm, and through questioning and supernormal feats Moggallana shook the self-assurance of that deity (Samy. 6,5). Or he appeared in front of a Brahma named Tissa — who formerly had been a monk and had died recently — and gave him instructions about stream-entry and the realization of final deliverance. (Anguttara IV, 34; VII, 53).
 

HarihOm

Member
Namaste Part 3

5. Telekinesis (Supernormal locomotion)
Moggallana also had mastery over, what appears to be solid matter. Once there were monks staying at a monastery, who were negligent and of distracted minds, busying themselves too much with material trifles. Learning of this, the Buddha asked Moggallana to shake their excessive faith in materiality by a supernormal feat and to stir them on to renewed and serious effort. In response to the Buddha's request, Moggallana pushed the building with his big toe, so that the entire monastery, called "The Terrace of Migara's Mother," shook and trembled as if there was an earthquake. By this experience the monks were so deeply stirred that they became again receptive when the Buddha instructed them, explaining the four Roads to Power (iddhipada), from which Moggallana's great supernormal prowess derived (Samy, 51, 14; Jat. 299E).

When Moggallana visited Sakka in his heavenly realm and saw that Sakka was living rather light-heartedly and was captivated by the heavenly sense pleasures of his world, forgetful of the Teaching, Moggallana performed a similar magic feat by shaking slightly the celestial palace, called "Banner of Victory," in which Sakka took much pride. This had a "shock effect" on Sakka too, and he now recalled the teaching on the extinction of craving, which the Buddha had briefly taught him not long ago. It was the same teaching by which the Buddha had once helped Moggallana to attain sainthood (Majjh 387).

Once there was a famine in the area where the Buddha and his community of monks stayed, and the monks could not obtain sufficient food. On that occasion Moggallana asked the Buddha whether he may overturn the ground, so that the nourishing substance underneath would be accessible and could be eaten. But the Buddha told him not to do so, as this would cause the destruction of a large number of living beings. Then Moggallana offered to open by his magical power a road to the (mythical) Uttara Kuru country, so that the monks could go there for alms. This, too, was rejected by the Buddha. But all survived the famine unharmed, even without such supernormal devices. (Paraj. I, 2) This was the only occasion when the Buddha disapproved of Moggallana's suggestions.

Moggallana's supernormal power expressed itself also in his ability to bring things from long distances by his magical locomotion. Thus for instances he brought lotus stalks from the Himalayas when Sariputta was ill and needed them for medicine (Maha Vagga VI, 20; Cula Vagga V, 34). He also fetched a shoot of the Bodhi tree for Anathapindika to be planted at the Jetavana Monastery (Jat. 78E). But when his fellow-monk Pindola asked him to prove the superiority of the Buddha's Sangha over the sectarians by magically bringing down a precious bowl that had been hung up in town so high that nobody could take it down, Moggallana refused, saying that Pindola himself possessed sufficient powers to do it. But when Pindola actually performed that feat, the Buddha rebuked him: a monk should not display supernormal powers for the sake of impressing the laity (Cula Vagga V, 8).

 

HarihOm

Member
Namaste Part 4

About his recollection of his own former existences, Moggallana spoke only once, in the 50th Discourse of the Middle Length Discourses (Majjhima Nikaya). With that text we shall deal in the following chapter.

In the Jatakas, the stories about the Buddha's former existences, it is reported that the Buddha-to-be and Moggallana had lived together quite often. In no less than thirty-one lives the Buddha and Moggallana had met, and in thirty of them Moggallana and Sariputta had lived together. So strong was the bond that already in previous lives had connected these three. To be sure, the thirty-one which have been recorded, is a very small number compared with the infinity of lives through which every being in Samsara has passed. Yet some general conclusions concerning Moggallana can be drawn from them. It is, of course, not possible to reproduce here these thirty-one Jatakas, with all their details and embellishments. Only some general points can be mentioned here, which are important for understanding Moggallana's life and personality.

The first thing we find from the Jatakas is his close relationship to the Bodhisatta. Moggallana and Sariputta were often his brothers (Jat. 488, 509, 543), his friends (Jat. 326), or his Ministers (J. 401). Sometimes they were his disciples as ascetics (J. 432, 522), or even his teachers (J. 539). Sometimes Sariputta is the son and Moggallana the general of the royal Bodhisatta (J. 525). When the Buddha was Sakka, King of Gods, they were the moon- and the sun-god respectively (J. 450).

The second point worth to be noticed is the relationship of Sariputta to Moggallana. When, in the Jataka stories, both are seen to traverse all the heights and depths of Samsara, they sometimes play quite inferior parts in relation to the main figures of the respective stories. There appears a certain lawfulness in the stories in so far, as in most cases the difference between them (e.g., in status) is larger to the degree in which their level of rebirth is lower and there is less difference when their rebirth is on a higher level. When reborn as animals, they rarely were equals (only as swans, in J. 160, 187, 215, 476) and mostly Sariputta was born in a higher species of animals. Thus they were snake and rat (J. 37), snake and jackal (J. 315), man and jackal (J. 490). When born as human beings in worldly careers, Sariputta was always in a higher position than Moggallana: as a royal prince and royal minister (J. 525), royal minister and son of a slave (J. 544), charioteer of the royal Bodhisatta and charioteer of king Ananda (J. 151). Once Moggallana was the moon god and Sariputta the wise ascetic Narada (J. 535). But when both are ascetics or deities, they are mostly of equal states. But once it happened that Sariputta was only the moon god and Moggallana the superior sun god (J. 450); once Sariputta was the king of the Nagas (serpent deities) and Moggallana the king of their foes, the Supannas (mythical birds of deity status) (J. 545).

The only time when Moggallana appears in the Jatakas without Sariputta, is a life in which he holds the office of Sakka, King of Gods. In Majjh. 37, he admonishes one of his successors to that office. At that time, as Sakka, he also appeared on earth to a miser in order to urge on him the virtue of giving and thus to lead him to a better rebirth (J.78). But another time, when Sariputta and Moggallana lived on earth, they were stingy merchants who had buried much money. After death, they were reborn close to their buried treasure, but as a snake and a rat. (J. 73).
 

HarihOm

Member
Namaste Part 5

There is also a story in which Moggallana was reborn as a jackal. Seeing a dead elephant, he was so greedy for its flesh that he crept through an intestinal aperture right into the elephant's belly, ate as much as he could, but was then unable to get out again, suffering mortal fear — an impressive symbol of the perils of sensual enjoyment. (J. 490).

In the famous Jataka about the Law of the Kuru people (J. 276), Moggallana is a keeper of grain stores and Sariputta a merchant. Both were very careful in observing the law of not-stealing.


Half a year before the Final Passing Away of the Awakened One, death separated the two friends for the last time. Sariputta died on the full-moon day of the month Kattika (October/November); it was at his birth place, in his parental home, far away from Moggallana. Just as their attainment of sainthood occurred at different places, they were also separated in death, though they had been so close to each other for a long time.

Soon after the death of Sariputta, Mara, the embodiment of evil and the Lord of Death, claimed Moggallana's mortal frame, by entering his bowels. He could not make him possessed by entering his head, because he had access only to the lowest Chakra. Moggallana, however, told him calmly to get out and away as he had well recognized him. Mara was very surprised that he had been found out so soon, and in his delusion he thought that even the Buddha would not have recognized him so quickly. But Moggallana read his thoughts and ordered him again to get away. Mara now escaped through Moggallana's mouth and stood at the hut's door post. Moggallana told him that he knew him not only from to-day but was aware of his karmic past and his descent. In that way, Moggallana manifested here three supernormal faculties: the Divine Eye, telepathy and recollection of past lives. It was only on this occasion, reported in Majjhima Nikaya No. 50, that Moggallana spoke of his recollection of his own distant past.

The following is the gist of what he told. The first Buddha appearing in our "fortunate aeon" (bhadda-kappa) with five Buddhas, was Kakusanda. He lived when the lifespan of man was 40,000 years and when the first darkening of the golden age became evident because of a king's lack of concern and the occurrence of the first theft. Because of that, man's vital energy became reduced to half. At that time, Moggallana was Mara, chief of demons, lord of the lower worlds, and his name was Mara Dusi. He had a sister by name of Kali whose son was to become the Mara of our age. Hence Moggallana's own nephew was now standing in front of him at the door post. While being the Mara of that distant time, Moggallana had attacked a chief disciple of the previous Buddha by taking possession of a boy and making him throw a potsherd at the holy disciple's head so that blood was flowing. When the Buddha Kakusandha saw this, he said: "Verily, Mara knew no moderation here" — because even in satanic actions there might be moderation. Under the glance of the Perfect One the astral body of Mara Dusi dissolved on the spot and reappeared in the deepest hell. Just a moment ago he had been the overlord of all the hellish worlds and now he himself was one of hell's victims. A moment ago he had been the greatest torturer and now he himself was undergoing one of those terrible torments. Such is the rapid change in samsaric situations. For many thousands of years Moggallana had to suffer in hell as a punishment for his frivolity towards a saint. Ten thousand years he had to spend alone in a hellish pool, having a human body and the head of a fish, just as Pieter Breughel had painted such beings in his pictures of the hells. Whenever two lances of his torturers crossed in his heart, he would know that a thousand years of his torment had passed. (Majjh. 50).

After this encounter with Mara which once more brought to his mind the terrors of Samsara from which he now was free forever, Moggallana felt that the time of his last existence was running out. Being a saint he saw no reason for making use of his ability to extend, by an act of will, his life span up to the end of this aeon, and he calmly allowed impermanence to take its lawful course.
 

HarihOm

Member
Namaste Part 6

As many great sages of the East and many saints of the Buddha did, he left behind a kind of autobiography in verses in which he summarized how he, as a liberated one, had passed through all the situations of his life, unperturbed and unshaken. Events that completely overwhelmed others left him calm. His verses in the Theragatha could be summed up by saying that none of Samsara's upheavals appeared to him extraordinary, nor could anything disturb the equipoise of his sainthood. The Dukkha of the world no longer touched him as he lived in a peace that transcended all the pain and restlessness of existence.

The verses begin with events of his life in this world. Wherever others craved for possessions, he, as a forest hermit, was content in an austere life of few wants (Thag. 1146-1149). Once when a harlot tried to seduce him, he rejected her, just as the Buddha had rejected Mara's daughters (1150-1157). When Sariputta, his best friend died, he was not agitated by sorrow as was Ananda who had not yet become an arahant, but remained unshaken in his serenity (1158-1163). Then the verses turn to events of a supernormal nature as his shaking a monastery building with his toe (1164) and his undisturbed meditation in a mountain cleft, in the midst of thunder and lightning (1167). Living with mind pacified in remote places, he, a true heir of the Buddha, is venerated even by Brahma (1169). The following verses (1169-1173) are addressed to a superstitious Brahman of wrong views who, on seeing Maha Kassapa going for alms, had abused him. Moggallana warns him against the dangers of such conduct and urges him to respect the saints. He then praises Sariputta (1176) and, it seems that the next verses (1177-1181) are Sariputta's own praise of Moggallana. He now reviews his attainments and rejoices in the consummation of the goal of his monk life (1182-1186). The last verses (1187-1208) are identical with those concluding his encounter with Mara recorded in Majjhima Nikaya No. 50 and briefly related above.


The Awakened One, surrounded by many of his monks, passed away peacefully during a meditative absorption which he entered with perfect mastery. Sariputta's death in his parental home, likewise with fellow monks in attendance, was similarly serene, though, unlike the Buddha, he had been ill before his end. Ananda died at the age of 120, before which he entered with meditative skill the fire element so that his body vanished in a blaze, as he did not wish to burden anyone by his funeral. Considering the serene death of the Master and these two disciples, one would have expected that, in the case of Maha-Moggallana too, the final dissolution of the body at death would take place in external circumstance of a similarly peaceful nature. But in Moggallana's case it was very different, though the gruesome nature of his death did not shake his firm and serene mind.

He passed away a fortnight after his friend Sariputta, namely on the new-moon day of the month Kattika (October/November), in the autumn. The Great Decease of the Buddha took place in the full-moon night of the month Vesakha (May), that is half a year after the death of his two chief disciples. The Buddha was in his 80th year when he passed away, while both Sariputta and Maha-Moggallana died at 84.

These were the circumstances of Moggallana's death.

After the death of Nathaputta, the leader of the ascetic Order of the Jains (Jinas),[10]there arose among his followers bitter contentions about his teaching, and consequently there was a loss of devoted adherents and of support. The Jains had also learned what Moggallana reported from his celestial travels: that virtuous devotees of the Buddha were seen to have a heavenly rebirth while followers of other sects lacking moral conduct, had fallen into miserable, sub-human states of existence. This, too, contributed to the decline in the reputation of other sects, including the Jains.

Particularly the very lowest type of Jains in Magadha were so enraged about that loss of public esteem and support that they wanted to get rid of Moggallana. Without investigating the causes in themselves, they projected blame externally and concentrated their envy and hate on Maha-Moggallana. Hesitating to commit a murder themselves, they conceived another plan. Even in those days there were professional criminals ready to do a killing for payment. There are always unscrupulous men willing to do anything for money. So some evil-minded Jains hired such a gang and ordered them to kill Moggallana.

At that time, Maha-Moggallana lived alone in a forest hut at Kalasila. After his encounter with Mara he knew that the end of his days was near. Having enjoyed the bliss of liberation, he now felt the body to be just an obstruction and burden. Hence he had no desire to make use of his faculties and keep the body alive for the rest of the aeon. Yet, when he saw the brigands approaching, he just absented himself by using his supernormal powers. The gangsters arrived at an empty hut, and though they searched everywhere, could not find him. They left disappointed, but returned on the following day. On six consecutive days Moggallana escaped from them in the same way. His motivation was not the protection of his own body, but saving the brigands from the fearsome karmic consequences of such a murderous deed, necessarily leading to rebirth in the hells. He wanted to spare them such a fate by giving them time to reconsider and abstain from their crime. But their greed for the promised money was so great that they persisted and returned even on the seventh day. Then their persistence was "rewarded," for on that seventh day Moggallana suddenly lost the magic control over his body. A heinous deed committed in days long past (by causing the death of his own parents) had not yet been expiated, and the ripening of that old Kamma confronted him now, just as others are suddenly confronted by a grave illness. Moggallana realized that he was now unable to escape. The brigands entered, knocked him down, smashed all his limbs and left him lying in his blood. Being keen on quickly getting their reward and also somewhat ill as ease about their dastardly deed, the brigands left at once, without a further look.

But Moggallana's great physical and mental strength was such that his vital energies had not yet succumbed. He regained consciousness and was able to drag himself to the Buddha. There, in the Master's presence, at the holiest place of the world, at the source of the deepest peace, Moggallana breathed his last (Jat. 522E). The inner peace in which he dwelt since he attained to sainthood, never left him. It did not leave him even in the last seven days of his life, which had been so turbulent. But even the threat of doom was only external. This is the way of those who are finally "healed" and holy and are in control of the mind. Whatever Kamma of the past had been able to produce a result in his present life, nevertheless, it could affect only his body, but no longer "him," because "he" no longer identified himself with anything existing only impermanently. This last episode of Moggallana's life, however, showed that the law of moral causality (Kamma) has even greater power than the supernormal feats of this master of magic. Only a Buddha can control the karmic consequences acting upon his body to such an extent that nothing might cause his premature death.

Sariputta and Maha-Moggallana were such wonderful disciples that the Buddha said the assembly of monks appeared empty to him after their death. It was marvelous he said, that such an excellent pair of disciples existed. But it was marvelous, too, that, in spite of their excellence, there was no grief, no lamentation on the part of the Master, when the two had passed away.[11]

Therefore, inspired by the greatness of the two chief disciples, may a dedicated follower of the Dhamma strive to be his own island of refuge, have the Dhamma as his island of refuge, not looking for any other refuge, having in it the powerful help of the Four Foundations of Mindfulness (Satipatthana)! Those who are thus filled with keen desire to train themselves in walking on the Noble Eightfold Path, they will certainly pass beyond the realms of darkness which abound in Samsara. So the Master assures.[12
 

shivsomashekhar

Well-Known Member
And yet ... the phenomena stopped as well. Can 'capillary action' stop?

You can try it right now at home and it will work just as it did that day. Note that the milk did not disappear that day too; it wa simply sucked out of the spoon and was spilling on the floor. Note that the Ganesha idols did not actually consume/absorb milk on that day. People who were in India then should know for it was shown all over TV.

Even if you believe in such miracles, why would Ganesha suddenly, out of the blue, without a precedent, consume milk this way, for a day, all over India? This becomes a harder question to answer. Occam's razor says that the simpler explanation is more likely to be the correct one.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I never went when it happened here, (Edmonton, Canada) but about 2000 people did. I'm not into mass frenzy. Like I said before, mystics don't argue, and what we believe depends on our experiences. These kinds of discussions lead nowhere, as there is simply no way either side will change their mind.

I was driving across our province one day, and got into an argument with the guy in my car about the name of a village we were passing. The argument got heated, as we both 'knew' the name of the town. So heated we drove into the place. The name was clearly written on several signs, and we asked 3 separate businesses. 'What is the name of this town?" My friend accused me of somehow setting it all up. (Turned out I was right.) After returning home, he never spoke to me again.

Such is the way of egos and attachment. Very valuable lesson there, on how people (myself included) use their experiences to have no doubts whatsoever.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I will check the video. If it is happening in your home state, perhaps you could find some time to look it up for yourself? Though, from experience, it is hard for us to ask to inspect the photograph - remove it from its place. It offends them and it is unlikely that would allow such tests. But it is always worth a try.

I have heard of this done at other sites with 'no fraud detected' and the vibhutti continued to accumulate. From this and thousands of other things I really have no reasonable doubt of the existence of the so-called paranormal. This house appears to be following the pattern of what has been happening at many, many places in many different countries. I study and judge the reasonableness of all the theories offered.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
You can try it right now at home and it will work just as it did that day. Note that the milk did not disappear that day too; it wa simply sucked out of the spoon and was spilling on the floor. Note that the Ganesha idols did not actually consume/absorb milk on that day. People who were in India then should know for it was shown all over TV.
I watched multiple videos from that day and I guarantee I saw things that I know were not normal and could not be reproduced today. These people were stunned and clearly amateur video makers and I don't know how a fraud could be perpetrated in so many multiple places and with statues of various materials that preclude capillary action. I considered the 'normal capillary action' combined with 'mass hallucination' hypothesis but it just doesn't explain what many saw or I saw in the videos. I think that theory is strongly put out there not because it explains the facts well, but because it is wholly materialistic which appeals to many.
Even if you believe in such miracles, why would Ganesha suddenly, out of the blue, without a precedent, consume milk this way, for a day, all over India? This becomes a harder question to answer. Occam's razor says that the simpler explanation is more likely to be the correct one.
The most reasonable theory to me is that the powers above wanted to give the faithful a sign that day that they are 'really here' in a time of declining concern for the gods. This I understand rejuvenated and restored so many of the faithful and converted atheists. I think it lasted for only a day and stopped almost everywhere suddenly because the gods wanted to support belief but not compel belief. As you can see the doubters are free to not believe also. I believe this is all controlled by a greater wisdom.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I watched multiple videos from that day and I guarantee I saw things that I know were not normal and could not be reproduced today. These people were stunned and clearly amateur video makers and I don't know how a fraud could be perpetrated in so many multiple places and with statues of various materials that preclude capillary action. I considered the 'normal capillary action' combined with 'mass hallucination' hypothesis but it just doesn't explain what many saw or I saw in the videos. I think that theory is strongly put out there not because it explains the facts well, but because it is wholly materialistic which appeals to many.

The most reasonable theory to me is that the powers above wanted to give the faithful a sign that day that they are 'really here' in a time of declining concern for the gods. This I understand rejuvenated and restored so many of the faithful and converted atheists. I think it lasted for only a day and stopped almost everywhere suddenly because the gods wanted to support belief but not compel belief. As you can see the doubters are free to not believe also. I believe this is all controlled by a greater wisdom.

This is what I think as well, not that I actually care. (I personally needed no proof.) Here the amount of milk was over 15 gallons, a spoonful at a time over about 3 days. Lots of engineers, doctors, a judge etc. participated. Not your average mass hysteria crowd. Still one guy maintains that it didn't happen.

I just think we've come a long way as humans. There was a time when one was put to death for believing the earth was round, and much more recently mystics were put in insane asylums to live out the remaining years of their karma for that lifetime. As humans we're kinder now.
 
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